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Kombine

Templar Suggestions

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So before I start. Just letting people know that I am very new to the game. So any ignorance about class mechanics are expected on my part. With that said I like being a part of Community discussions. 

I would like this discussion to be EDUCATIONAL and CONSTRUCTIVE.

Before I begin. I just want to point out that I am not taking any numbers tuning into account. This discussion is strictly game play. 

With that out of the way lets begin. 

BTW my grammar is terrible. I think faster then I can type. Just fair warning.

So far my favorite class in Crowfall is the Templar. This does not surprise me since I have the most fun play this archetype in many games. I.E. Paladin in World of Warcraft, Guardian in Guild Wars 2, Crusader in Diablo 3 ext...

Obviously the glaring weakness with Templar is mobility. Atleast IMHO. With that said I dont think Censure is working as intended. Its just to hard to land even on PvE mobs. This could be fixed with a simple pass-over during beta (since the devs have bigger things to deal with atm) I completely understand why its still buggy.

One way I could see helping Templar mobility is not to give them a gap closer but instead just giving them Slows. Make it so someone has to think twice about charging or attacking a Templar because their ability to run away would get worse. Templar's are Justice seekers alot of the times the Holy Warrior archetype in games is seen as the policing force. Or a Royal Guard. Never searching for a fight but when a fight does happen make sure the enemy/villain cant just get away. (How else would they send them to the chopping block?)

Another thing i've noticed is how CC reliant the Templar is. With Retaliate being spammable with enough stam. I think Retaliate should have a CD(think Wow's PvP anti CC trinket that"s on a 2min CD) Across all Classes. The CD time can be tuned to the dev's liking.

Next in my list is Divine Light. This ability is really good on paper. However anyone who plays any large scale pvp game knows that theory doesn't always work in practice. So I think a rework of that one ability could solve a few issues. 

Take Divine Light and rename it to Divine Presence. It should still keep its CD. Then instead of having it placed on the grond simply attatch it to the Templar themselves. Change the size or make it weaker but since this is a large portion of my Righteousness i think it should stick with me and not over yonder sitting outside the battle because people moved. With the announcement from the December 4th's Q&A mentioning disciplines costing talent points to get some of their effect. You could add more to the base classes and give Templar another Ground use ability that acts like it should, A large sanctified ground that is very hazardous to the enemies health. That ability shouldnt be just placed willy nilly either. Could even make it slow anyone caught inside when it was cast and anyone hit by the damage pulses.

All in all I love that Classes in the game have Strengths and weaknesses. With this game being still being in Pre-Alpha its amazing how much this game has going for it. In a world of games that are "forever Beta" like alot of Steam games This games Pre-Alpha blows those games "Beta" out of the water.

Hopefully this creates a decent discussion to give the dev's a direction to go with the Templar.

 

TL;DR I think Templar's roles should be to punish those who over extend I.E by slowing and immobilizing anyone (such as a Hungry Knight/Myrmidon) Making them regret jumping in like they did. 

As always this is Pre-Alpha so I am positive their will be numbers and class tuning/changes coming when entering Beta.

P.S. Again I apologize if this is hard to read. I have terrible grammar.

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7 hours ago, Kombine said:

 

Responses in bold

Quote

Obviously the glaring weakness with Templar is mobility. Atleast IMHO. With that said I dont think Censure is working as intended. Its just to hard to land even on PvE mobs. This could be fixed with a simple pass-over during beta (since the devs have bigger things to deal with atm) I completely understand why its still buggy.

Mobility has been a problem for the Templars but they're are majors you can take to offset this.  Illusionist (for 3rd strike melee slow)  or Troubadour (ranged slow)

One way I could see helping Templar mobility is not to give them a gap closer but instead just giving them Slows. Make it so someone has to think twice about charging or attacking a Templar because their ability to run away would get worse. Templar's are Justice seekers alot of the times the Holy Warrior archetype in games is seen as the policing force. Or a Royal Guard. Never searching for a fight but when a fight does happen make sure the enemy/villain cant just get away. (How else would they send them to the chopping block?)

Another thing i've noticed is how CC reliant the Templar is. With Retaliate being spammable with enough stam. I think Retaliate should have a CD(think Wow's PvP anti CC trinket that"s on a 2min CD) Across all Classes. The CD time can be tuned to the dev's liking.

Retaliate is being worked on and we're not sure what the final end product of this will be.

 

Quote

Next in my list is Divine Light. This ability is really good on paper. However anyone who plays any large scale pvp game knows that theory doesn't always work in practice. So I think a rework of that one ability could solve a few issues. 

Divine is a very strong skill for the Templar class. Yes the draw back of it being static is rough but it can easily be worked around by the group you're playing with.

Take Divine Light and rename it to Divine Presence. It should still keep its CD. Then instead of having it placed on the grond simply attatch it to the Templar themselves. Change the size or make it weaker but since this is a large portion of my Righteousness i think it should stick with me and not over yonder sitting outside the battle because people moved. With the announcement from the December 4th's Q&A mentioning disciplines costing talent points to get some of their effect. You could add more to the base classes and give Templar another Ground use ability that acts like it should, A large sanctified ground that is very hazardous to the enemies health. That ability shouldnt be just placed willy nilly either. Could even make it slow anyone caught inside when it was cast and anyone hit by the damage pulses.

The fury spec has this with their divine light. Daze is a 50% slow while enemies are in it & a knockdown.

 

Templars aren't in a terrible place other than the Vindicator's talent line needing a rework & some slight buffs to the fury line itself.

Edited by MrErad

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43 minutes ago, MrErad said:

Responses in bold

Templars aren't in a terrible place other than the Vindicator's talent line needing a rework & some slight buffs to the fury line itself.

Thanks for the Education. That is where my Class ignorance comes into play...I knew that Fury has a suppression...I think. But still learning what all the terminology means

Edited by Kombine

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18 hours ago, Kombine said:

But still learning what all the terminology means

Quick FYI on CC:

Attack Controls:

Suppress, blind, cooldown increase

 

Movement controls:

Root, slow, includes daze

 

Hard controls

Stun, knockdown.

 

--------

Templar gets aoe knockdown from the castigate combo, aoe blind from ultimate, stun from censure.  Fury spec also gets the knockdown and daze on Divine Light, and a root on the execute chain.

 

I agree with MrErad that Templars overall are not in a bad spot.  I don't think Templars are meant to get much mobility by design, but, as Erad said, there's workarounds.  You could choose nethari race for the long distance Dodge, or Elken for the racial Elken charge ability.  MrErad and I both play human Templars.  We're also the first players in our respective groups to leap into the fray and anchor our Frontline groups, so mobility is a choice we relinquish in lieu of other perks.  The Key is to know what role you will be fighting in often and in what environment (Sieges, open field, etc).

 

I actually like that Divine Light stays put.  It would be interesting if there was an optional talent to transform the ability to do as you described, to adjust playstyle according to personal preference.

Edited by Dern

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I think Templars are in a great position at the moment and if they were given more slows or even gap closers then I would consider them to be a bit on the over powered side but I do play Fury so I have more CC than other promotions and like the other guys said, know your environment, your groups classes and call out your divine light so people come to you instead of you chasing them ^^

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18 minutes ago, Zatch said:

Templars are poorly made socks in open field, but gods in sieges/fort fights. The class is well designed for what it's intended to excel at. 

They're perfectly fine open field. Anything more and the class would be overpowered.

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On 12/5/2019 at 5:02 PM, Zatch said:

Templars are poorly made socks in open field, but gods in sieges/fort fights. The class is well designed for what it's intended to excel at. 

100% correct.  Templars are only good if your enemy stops and fights you.  Kill everyting else, completely ignore all types of Templars, then kill them last.  They don't even have the mobility to escape haha.  They got to leave the fight while their friends are dying if they want to escape.

 

Mobility is the fatal flaw in this class - and by fatal I don't mean you died of tetanus  after stepping on a nail last week, no sir, you proceed directly to the bottom of the bottomless pit and do not collect $200.

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Now who are we comparing lack of mobility to?    Human templars can cover 40 meters with 2 dodges and censure.  Nethari can cover over 60.   Compared to a champs base kit of 36 meters being mino you could extend that to 56m with the racial.  Centaurs would fall a little shorter with wild charge but make it up by having trailmaster.   

What the other classes have over the Templar in their base kits is a way to slow or pull targets or some form of cc.  Giving them an edge in mobility or chases.

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Anti-mobility falls in the realm of mobility, as does gap closers, the speed at which you move, especially when parrying, having to switch to surv tray to dodge, your ability to stay connected to the average target,  etc etc.  I think maybe you're just trying to argue for the sake of argument or else you're that other thing.


No class ever has to fight a Templar unless they want to obtain the space where he is.'

 

Templars are a joke for bads to sit and hold parry while other bads attack them.

Edited by Ble

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