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Dynimix

Ranger Or Stalker

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What we can tell from the role categories is that Stalker is a DPS class and Ranger is a stealth specialist. There are some reasonable inferences that can be drawn from those facts, but that's all we have to work with so far.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Posted this in the Ranger page, just going off of all the evidence and info we've been given about the Stalker and Ranger thus far:

 

Well, going by what they provide in the narratives of both classes, this is what I can extrapolate:

 

  • The Ranger has very little narrative indicators of what the devs have planned for the rangers skill and ability design. The narrative is essentially discussing the lore role of the Rangers (or Warders).
  • Only thing I can find in terms of hints at their abilities is the mention of "sword" (suggesting some moderate to high melee capability).
  • The narrative also suggests that the ranger class is heavily based on mobility, describing them as wanderers and travelers, suggesting that they are meant to be highly mobile over long distances with excellent survival capabilities.
  • From the picture, we know that they will have ranged-archery abilities, and are prominently featured in their artwork for both male and female.
  • The male and female's clothing also suggests that their abilities and overall design was crafted with either leather armor or heavy linen armor in mind, suggesting they work optimally in light to moderate armor. Again supported by their description as wanderers and travelers (easier to travel in lighter armors)
  • There is also some suggestion from the female artwork that they may have greater pet capabilities than other classes as well, as no other classes have pets featured in their artwork.
  • The wolf totem to accompany her wolf companion also seems to support this, although this could be a coincidence that she happens to have summoned a wolf companion (as the devs have said that these totems will be how companions and mounts will be summoned in game and all classes will be able to use these totems)
  • There is also a bloodied horn hanging from the belt of the female ranger, which may indicate that rangers specialize in hunting. It may also be a horn instrument, but unlikely due to the presence of blood.
  • The male ranger has several baubles of an undetermined purpose. They may be a form of medieval grenade (seeing as the duelist uses pistols, this may not be so far-fetched).
  • The ranger was also developed before the inclusion of companions, so they may have had a more independent and survival based design before the inclusion of companion pets. But seeing as they are heavily revisiting and redesigning the archetypes as they test the system, this may no longer be the case.
  • The male and female's physical design appears to be inspired by northern European medieval cultures, such as having some Celtic and Breton influences in their clothing design and in the design of the female's braids.

 

The Stalker's narrative, on the other hand, seems to contain heavy indicators of Stalker gameplay and ability design:

 

  • "Certainly not used to running for his life through dark streets and tight alleys. How quickly he fled the paved streets to seek refuge in the wood." This suggests that Stalkers prefer wooded, forested, or country environments and not suited to close urban combat, suggesting having access to long range damage abilities.
  • "He moves fast, and quiet – wasn’t he wearing armor?" The fast and quiet phrase bears some suggestion that the stalker also has access to stealth or camouflage mechanics, allowing him to move very quickly while still staying unseen. This also suggests that the Stalker is a very mobile archetype with some moderate mobile abilities in its design. It's racial abilities as an Elken may also provide such mobility.
  • "Scale mail, could be enchanted." Stalkers will at least have access to scale mail (should they include it. It is not currently listed as one of the types of armors that will be available in game, but this heavily suggests that stalkers will at least have been designed best operate in medium to moderate armor types. Because they have the heavier armor, this may also suggest some light to moderate melee capabilities to survive close combat fights.
  • "A hare, pinned to the tree waist-high, bleeding down the length of the trunk to the ground below. / Oh, you clever bastard—" This heavily implies that Stalkers will be the trapper based class, making heavy use of traps and CC to set up long ranged killshots. How this will all tie together will be up to the devs, but this passage is probably the best insight we have into how traps may work in the game, traps to mislead, distract, or position foes into their range for high-damage, precision-based attacks.
  • "His arrow pierces my throat." This implies that Stalkers will heavily rely on either highly precise and accurate ranged attacks, or rely more on generating critical attacks as his primary source of damage and utility.
  • The narrative also makes several references to how, should the Stalker be caught, that he will suffer heavy damage ("This one won’t live to see the dawn. If my men lose sleep, he’ll regret it. They will make it hurt." / "So, this is where he has chosen to die.") This suggests that while the stalker may have some defenses against melee with mail armor, they are exceptionally meager and that the stalker is the ranged glass cannon: if a stalker engages in melee, the player should not expect to live long or win those engagements.
  • The picture shows that the stalker archetype is designed primarily with the Elken as a template for their physical characteristics and identity. This also means that we can assume that many of the Traits exhibited in D'Orion of the Crowfall pantheon may be present in them as well (focus on hunting, stalking, scouting, vengeance, arrogance, stoicism, animal affinity or instinctive, and a degree of serious somberness and sobriety in their character and personalities).
  • The picture does not show the Stalker from the thigh down, which leaves the design of their feet in question. However, given that the Stalker in the narrative was not fond of the city roads and the design of D'Orion, their legs and feet may be either cloven and/or be shaped like the hindlimbs of most quadrupeds (deer or horse shaped legs) (somewhat disappointed that their fingers are otherwise human, would've preferred to see a cloven design there too, but, oh well)
  • The picture shows the Stalker in heavy leather armor, again supporting their optimal armor style/bonuses comes from wearing medium to moderate armor.
  • The picture also shows the Stalker among the leaves (even appearing as if he is in the canopy and treetops, looking down upon his target), appearing to use the foliage as cover and concealment, again reinforcing the idea that the Stalker may have some stealth or camouflage capabilities. The name "Stalker" itself, also suggests that the Stalker may make use of stealth.
  • The Stalker's artwork prominently features the bow and arrow as it's primary weapons, but does not outwardly display any other weapons, again reinforcing themselves as long range damage dealers specializing with the bow as their only weapon. There are small pouches along its belt, suggesting that this is where they keep either supplies or materials, possibly from traps or survival gear. Appears to be a survivor type class, as it appears as though the Stalker is able to survive harsh environments (judging by the cloak) on minimal supplies, so there may be survival abilities granted to the Stalker
  • The Stalker appears to have a much burlier appearance than the ranger, with broad shoulders, neck muscles and thick arms, while also having a thin stomach and waste, suggesting some physical prowess and ability to survive on minimal nutrition and food intake. Bowman were often cited as having very strong upper body strength due to the needed strength to flex the bow. Whether this will exemplify itself in gameplay is yet to be seen.
  • The Stalker has a much more tribal look than the ranger, deriving some Celtic influence, while also drawing some Germanic influences in their armor and insignia design. There also appears to be a tribal tattoo design over the right eye that is distinct from the shadows of the leaves. What this may mean is yet to be seen.
  • (Also of note that despite the names "Elken" and "Deeren," the Antler and anthropomorphic influences seem to be that of an antelope, as the antlers appear to be two separate and solid horns with minimal branching. However, D'Orion has branching antlers typical of North American and European Stags, so this may simply be a cosmetic option for the Stalker Archetype. Still remains to be seen.)

The Stalker page also contains insights into the Ranger class, too. If we can assume that "the Watch" described hunting the Stalker can be equated to the Ranger's "Wardens," due to the influence of the Game of Thrones Rangers and the similarities to the functions and definitions between the words "Ranger," "Warden," and "Watch":

  • "The smell of blood is close, and fresh. There! A handprint, on that tree." Suggests that the Ranger will have some refined to advanced tracking capabilities.
  • "So arrogant! We will find him, trees or no. The Watch is skilled. City, mountain or forest, we will find you." Describes their ability to traverse a multitude of terrains and still operate at high levels of effectiveness.
  • "If my men lose sleep, he’ll regret it. They will make it hurt." Describes some DPS ability, but does not specify how or the source of said damage.
  • "I approach the tree, horn-hilted blade clenched tightly in my hand." Biggest piece of evidence that Rangers will have moderate to high melee capability. You can also see the presence of a horn on the female ranger's artwork, complete with fresh blood. Whether this is a weapon or blade, or just a crafting material is unknown.
  • The fact that the Stalker kills the "Watch" leader at the end suggests that Stalkers may be more suited to combat and DPS than the Ranger is.

In comparing the two Archetype pages, we find that they are both extremely similar in their equipment, weapons, and their suggested ability designs. However, some differences we can assume in how their playstyles may differ:

  • The lack of direct reference to combat on the Ranger's page, emphasizing traveling and carrying out unconventional tasks suggests that the ranger's talents is split between unorthodox tracking and survival capabilities associated with travel, with some modest combat capability (much like a scout class in other games). The Stalker on the other hand describes many opportunities to outplay, evade, and kill the other archetype, suggesting that it's talents are much more geared towards combat and will be the premier archery-based ranged DPS.
  • The ranger's arsenal appears to be much more diverse and balanced between archery and melee combat. Despite both archetypes emphasizing their use of a bow, the Ranger makes more use of other weapons, such as blades and swords, while also having a much more diverse toolkit in his artwork.
  • The ranger appears to have greater mobility based on the narrative provided. However, the Stalker also makes references to mobility and must also remember that the Elken race may have bonuses to movement. What I predict is that the Ranger will have more overall mobility (speed boosts, sprints, etc.) for better travel times, while the Stalker may use dashes or leaps, as this allows for more short range positioning without revealing their position as much (and to also keep with the deer theme).
  • The ranger's narrative also makes a lot of references to spirituality, suggesting that they may have some magical capability. The Stalker does not make such reference.
  • They are both described as survivors in their narrative. However, how they survive may be different, as the Ranger seems to be a Frontiersman or Scout in terms of how he is described, while the Stalker could be described as more of a Trapper or Hunter.
  • The Ranger appears to be a jack-of-all-trades archetype, while the Stalker is much more specialized.

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Now thats a magpie for ya.

 

I'll agree that ranger probably means they want that LoTR sort of blend of fun stuff. Ranger could very well be the melee+ranged hybrid with the stalker being more focused on range+escapes.

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Now thats a magpie for ya.

 

I'll agree that ranger probably means they want that LoTR sort of blend of fun stuff. Ranger could very well be the melee+ranged hybrid with the stalker being more focused on range+escapes.

Ok, what do the ranks even mean? Tried to look it up in the past, but found nothing, isnit just the number of posts?

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So ... one misconception to clear up here. The devs have verified that the Stalker is an anti-stealth class. This implies that they will NOT have access to stealth. Ranger and Assassin, however, it is verified that they will have stealth (and all of their promotion classes are implied to have it as well).

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The devs have verified that the Stalker is an anti-stealth class. This implies that they will NOT have access to stealth.

 

We know that the Stalker will not have stealth as an archetype ability- nor, most likely, via any of his promotions. However, he may have access to stealth via disciplines, if there are any disciplines which grant stealth.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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So ... one misconception to clear up here. The devs have verified that the Stalker is an anti-stealth class. This implies that they will NOT have access to stealth. Ranger and Assassin, however, it is verified that they will have stealth (and all of their promotion classes are implied to have it as well).

Thanks, did not know that, that narrows it down to three, although I love the idea of an anti stealth class


For the night is dark and filled with terrors.

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In shadowbane (which many if the devs played and helped develop, and is also a source of many of their ideas) scouts and bounty hunters were also "anti-stealth" trackers WHO ALSO HAD ACCESS TO STEALTH MECHANICS. This was to help them track down stealth users. So I wouldn't say that the stalkers won't have stealth just yet, it is still highly possible they may have access to stealth in some form.

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Except for the fact that the stealth classes are indicated with a mask icon.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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We know that the Stalker will not have stealth as an archetype ability- nor, most likely, via any of his promotions. However, he may have access to stealth via disciplines, if there are any disciplines which grant stealth.

 

Scouts Stealthed in SB and I would assume the Stalker would here as well.


Kloke

Shadowbane / Server: War / Guild: DHL / Thief: Yin / Scout: Plexiglassdragon

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Scouts Stealthed in SB and I would assume the Stalker would here as well.

 

So far the clues indicate that they are treating stealth and anti-stealth as two different playstyles.  I wouldn't count on the Stalker being both a stealther and anti-stealther.  It is possible, though.

 

Gordon said this:

 

Not all archetypes will have access to it – so instead, we’ll likely give some archetypes access to hunting (anti-stealth) as a viable alternative.

 

 

And Todd said this:

 

My goal was to make it similar to the SB stealth game; there were two different play styles, one geared towards stealth (infiltration, information retrieval, assassination) and one geared towards anti-stealth (seeking out and eliminating the former.)

 

 

Weirdly, Todd's quote seems to overlook the fact that in SB one class (Scout) actually did cover both playstyles.


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So far the clues indicate that they are treating stealth and anti-stealth as two different playstyles.  I wouldn't count on the Stalker being both a stealther and anti-stealther.  It is possible, though.

 

Gordon said this:

 

 

And Todd said this:

 

 

Weirdly, Todd's quote seems to overlook the fact that in SB one class (Scout) actually did cover both playstyles.

 

Honestly if I cannot get both play styles back, I do not see me enjoying the game much.  Being able to see stealthers but just sitting out in the open does not sound fun to me at all.  My scout pretty much could not kill a bunny but I would stealth around using track to find other stealthers and I would pop them with a bleed and then a snare and then it was my groups job to kill him.

 

I kept the thieves and scouts away at the expense of not having many points to put into damage and the such.  I was fast as hell, had a lot of stam and had maxed stealth and tracking but I was pretty much not going to kill you but that was the point.  I traded off all of the offensive for the ability to Stealth and Reveal stealth.  I am willing to give anything a chance but I am wanting Scouting to really matter again.

 

As it is, I am giving up flying which was an absolute blast and I wish they had kept it here as well but times change and so do games.


Kloke

Shadowbane / Server: War / Guild: DHL / Thief: Yin / Scout: Plexiglassdragon

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