Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Impressions after two years (the ENGINE issue)


Recommended Posts

I have seen this recently. Unity can handle it. What spaghetti code ArtCraft brewed in the last five years and what can be done now with it is a different story.

Please forgive my apparent pessimism. I guess it's just my way to lower my expectations or exorcise my fears. I REALLY WANT this game to succeed, and so I really want for you to be right and for me to be wrong. I am just exposing why I am reasoning the way I am reasoning, and hoping that at some point ACE will just make a blog post or video to address my (and other people's) fears.

Edited by Falconeer
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 52
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I'll be brief. This game, on paper, was the best thing ever. That's why we pledged (big) and why we are still here. Five years later, it is still exciting to read about it. What is being promised is

This does worry me as well. They can add in all the bells n whistles they want but if the game runs poorly, it will be a waste. The next big update really needs to bring in more new/old faces and

If you are afraid Unity can't handle complex stuff, or their team can't roll out MMO features, ACE requested, check their latest feature showcase video:   

5 hours ago, ComradeAma said:

Please read https://medium.com/@dtunkelang/premature-optimization-is-still-the-root-of-all-evil-a3502c2ea262
In context of CF it means, that there is no point optimising UI and assets loader (they are the source of issues you mentioned) before you have clear understanding of what kind of UI you want and which assets you will work with. The closer to release you do optimisations, the more efficient solution you will get in the shortest time. If you are questioning ACE competence, then I can say that I bought game myself 2 years ago (3 years after Kickstarter) when I saw, that they were more than competent to do such things.
Why do I know that? Cause I am developer myself 😅

 

5 hours ago, ComradeAma said:

If you are afraid Unity can't handle complex stuff, or their team can't roll out MMO features, ACE requested, check their latest feature showcase video: 

I'm not in game design but I understand the value of optimizing towards the end. However, I do question whether Unity and whatever tools/backend ACE uses and has created will be good enough for the game experience I assume many are expecting.

Unity is a great engine and has plenty of good games, but they aren't like Crowfall nor made by ACE. Pretty sure you can find crappy games and great games made with any engine or off the shelf assets/tools.

We don't really have much evidence to compare to. There is the recent Temtem which is nothing like Crowfall for obvious reasons. Albion Online has been out for a while and made a lot of performance improvements, even some that the devs said weren't possible. Still AO and CF are rather different in many ways that would impact performance.

I hope ACE figures it out, but could be yet another game that people just accept sloppy performance. With so many options and more on the way, it might not be good enough.

I've backed Ashes of Creation which has shown a more full blown MMO using Unreal, including potential for better performance. Also supported Camelot Unchained and the years of effort they've put into making an engine made specifically for large open world PVP MMO experiences. Fractured is using Unity and SpatialOS which looks like it might have potential for good performance but looks more along the lines of Albion. New World is coming with Amazon's backbone and engine.

Would be unfortunate for all the good work ACE has put into Crowfall to be swept away due to performance issues. 

 

 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Falconeer said:

As weird as it may sound, I wished they worked more on the engine and the hitch/lag from looting before ANYTHING else.

The "SPK" value in the upper left is part of a diagnostic tool created to address the hitching issue.  We asked a producer about it during a filming session last year.  That doesn't preclude the possibility that it's an "unfix-able problem", but I can definitely say they're aware of the issue and are actively working on correcting it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, APE said:

However, I do question whether Unity and whatever tools/backend ACE uses and has created will be good enough for the game

 

Well, if v2 asset pipeline and new UI rendering system are in 5.110, you will start to see improvements. Lets see the next game itteration.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, ComradeAma said:

Well, if v2 asset pipeline and new UI rendering system are in 5.110, you will start to see improvements. Lets see the next game itteration.

Hopefully the next update brings in a lot of what is missing overall. Performance, features, population, etc.

With them planning on Beta starting within the next 1-2 months and launching by the end of the year, they have a lot of work to do.

Unless they are going to settle with 5.110 being the majority of content for launch, there are still missing features, some of which seem like must haves before launch. Going with "optimize at the end," this pushes performance improvements even further back. 

If 5.110 doesn't come with a jump in performance with all the work they've been doing, marketing and inviting in a bunch of new/old fans to a poorly running experience seems like bad idea.

 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, APE said:

If 5.110 doesn't come with a jump in performance with all the work they've been doing, marketing and inviting in a bunch of new/old fans to a poorly running experience seems like bad idea.

Exactly this!

If the game open its doors to more people with the engine in this state, Crowfall is pretty much dead. Comments like "LOL SLIDESHOW!" and "it struggles to keep 30 stable fps on my megacomputer and it doesn't even look good" are so cheap these days, that kind of internet suprficiality is gonna spread fast and word of mouth is everything. 

Edited by Falconeer
Link to post
Share on other sites

So team behind Camelot Unchained pulled an Ashes of Creation to make a second game while the MMO is still in the works. Like Ashes though, seems like it will allow them to do more for the MMO in the end. Just looking at the performance, visuals, FPS and what not gives me hope that at least one of these games will be able to handle large scale situations. As much of a mess that the horde style gameplay is, the performance seems pretty dang nice.

 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry but I don't believe the City States folks one bit. I would never compare them to ArtCraft. I believe they are passionate, but due to money constraints and other problems that game will probably never happen. And this new move is the worst kind of bullcrap move and unfortunately I think proves my point even further. If ArtCraft announced anything new right now I would be INSANELY disgruntled and I would totally feel swindled. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Falconeer said:

I am sorry but I don't believe the City States folks one bit. I would never compare them to ArtCraft. I believe they are passionate, but due to money constraints and other problems that game will probably never happen. And this new move is the worst kind of bullcrap move and unfortunately I think proves my point even further. If ArtCraft announced anything new right now I would be INSANELY disgruntled and I would totally feel swindled. 

While not quite the same: https://www.mmorpg.com/crowfall/news/artcraft-technologies-is-a-new-division-to-focus-on-engine-licensing-1000049116

All of these companies are trying to make money with what they can so I get it. Unfortunately we are all left hoping something will come of these types of decisions.

Being a DAoC and WAR fan, I'm looking forward to CU, especially with their engine.

I doubt any of them will do crowdfunded projects again. ;)

 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Falconeer said:

I am sorry but I don't believe the City States folks one bit. I would never compare them to ArtCraft. I believe they are passionate, but due to money constraints and other problems that game will probably never happen. And this new move is the worst kind of bullcrap move and unfortunately I think proves my point even further. If ArtCraft announced anything new right now I would be INSANELY disgruntled and I would totally feel swindled. 

I don't think it's any big secret that ACE is also either already working on a second game, or at least in the planning stages of one. They are even hiring for it in their jobs section: https://crowfall.com/en-US/jobs

My personal guess is that this latest round of big investments ACE just got was due to this second game they're developing, exactly like Mark Jacobs and CU.

And I don't blame either of them, millions of dollars may sound like a lot of money to some of us, but it's gone in a couple years with projects this size. They need cash to keep flowing in. 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet it's a card game or the like of dota chess.

what I really want is a dnd style tabletop game on  pc.

Edited by Omen

Eat or be eaten

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a mess. And a mistake. I could go on for hours about why, but it doesn't matter. I am willing to bet that Camelot Unchained and City State Studios will crash and burn before an actual game (that is not a complete joke) will ever come out. About Crowfall I have a more hopes but a lot will depend on this next big update. Developing something new as a side project and be mysterious about it is one thing. Going all out and announce a new silly version of the actual game that you've been working on for five years with very little to show for is just desperation. This won't go well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Rikutatis said:

And I don't blame either of them, millions of dollars may sound like a lot of money to some of us, but it's gone in a couple years with projects this size. They need cash to keep flowing in. 

You mean in gone in a year unless they are paying their employee's like paupers. I, on the other hand, do blame them for diverting resources to any other project when they have shown they have a habit of missing release dates. If they release a good game, they would have revenue coming in. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's not derail this thread with Camelot Unchained stuff. After all, if any of you watched the "reveal"m I think it's pretty obvious how bad they are doing. Can't think of anything less interesting than the "game" they have demoed. Fortnite meet World War Z in a medieval setting. Why? Who the hell wants that? As I said, they are in desperation mode.

Let's just hope ACE never pulls anything like this on us. As Mystafyi said, if they focus and release a good game (Crowfall) chances are money would come. If they divert resources they are gonna have TWO bad games instead of one. Mark Jacobs is lying blatantly when he claims that the new game is not gonna slow down Camelot Unchained. 

The notion that ACE is working on anything other than Crowfall is terrifying. We can only hope it's early planning stage and so they are hiring specialists to help on Crowfall while eventually thinking what they could be used for when the specific tasks they were hired for are done with. If they pulled a Jacobs and announced a new game right now, then it's the end for Crowfall. They couldn't finish ONE game when it was their only focus, should we believe they can when they are split?

Mark Jacobs's stunt from yesterday really rubbed me the wrong way. I was really hoping for a new Dark Age of Camelot. Now it's obvious that we'll never get it.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/1/2020 at 6:19 PM, Falconeer said:

The notion that ACE is working on anything other than Crowfall is terrifying. We can only hope it's early planning stage and so they are hiring specialists to help on Crowfall while eventually thinking what they could be used for when the specific tasks they were hired for are done with. If they pulled a Jacobs and announced a new game right now, then it's the end for Crowfall. They couldn't finish ONE game when it was their only focus, should we believe they can when they are split?

I disagree, and terrifying is a bizarre word to use in description of game development. Given the length of time it takes to design and create a game, combined with the vision of creating an independent company, their collective histories of creating multiple games in different genres, the half-life of games, and putting a lot of personal wealth into their own company, I'd be concerned if ACE was not starting up on more games. All eggs in one basket comes to mind.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the insider way of thinking, the way of thinking of someone with a job on the line. I get it. At the same time though, ACE is in the business of making games and sell them. I have nothing against them making new games, if they can deliver a competent and reasonably complete game. If they can't (and so far, they haven't proverd that they can) then what they are doing is the closes thing to a scam (without, of course, being one).

They can start all the games they want, as long as they deliver a game at some point, and considering they are LATE in the deliver of what they prromised, starting new projects might guarantee them a salary for some extra months, but it's cheating on their customers. At least until we have an actual working non-alpha and non-beta Crowfall in our hands.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They touched on it in the stream towards the end. Said they are not going to mess with engine optimization because they have more features to add. It would be pointless. As much as I am agreement with you on the concerns, not much we can do but wait an see. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...