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Pann

Dev Diary: The Leveling Experience

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7 minutes ago, mandalore said:

That’s not really PvP XP though.

It's XP you get from PvP. That sounds like PvP XP to me.


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11 minutes ago, Jah said:

It's XP you get from PvP. That sounds like PvP XP to me.

It’s XP I MIGHT get from PvP.  The PVP isn’t even rewarding the XP, just facilitating possible access to a random amount of XP.  Random XP sounds like hogwash to me. 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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4 minutes ago, mandalore said:

It’s XP I MIGHT get from PvP.  The PVP isn’t even rewarding the XP, just facilitating possible access to a random amount of XP.  Random XP sounds like hogwash to me. 

Well, it wouldn't be random. It would be determined by what the person was carrying when you killed them.

And it has the huge advantage of not being exploitable. If you automatically get XP for a pvp kill, people will farm alts.


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16 minutes ago, Jah said:

Well, it wouldn't be random. It would be determined by what the person was carrying when you killed them.

And it has the huge advantage of not being exploitable. If you automatically get XP for a pvp kill, people will farm alts.

I said the same thing about scoreboard points but nobody seemed to care. 🤔


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28 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

I said the same thing about scoreboard points but nobody seemed to care. 🤔

whos farming kills for the scoreboard tho


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2 minutes ago, Staff said:

whos farming kills for the scoreboard tho

I assume the same people that would be farming for the xp 🤷‍♂️


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13 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

I assume the same people that would be farming for the xp 🤷‍♂️

i think you guys are underestimating just how easy it is to level by killing mobs instead, you can make a player kill count for 500 xp and even then with timers unless youre running like 10 alts killing mobs is faster, i would imagine if they made players count for xp theyd do 250 and not the wild 500 i used for my example, and make it in line with the current bosses which just furthers my point of mobs being much faster 


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4 hours ago, corvax said:

But what would really make my pants drop around my ankles would be a PvP game that gave XP for ... Well ya know, PvP.

This is why "PVP Games" need alternative forms of progression based on PVP. Be it achievements, titles, ranks, unlockable powers, etc. This is how pretty much all competitive games/genres function that have decent success. Everyone can't win a campaign, but everyone should have something to show for their time in-game. Harvesting and Crafting are pretty obvious while PVP only applies to the big picture which some people might have zero cares for.

3 hours ago, PaleOne said:

We need xp for..

Point capture

Successful siege

Pvp Kills

I would like to see some sort of long term progression come from these things but vessel xp seems rather useless overall.

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1 hour ago, Jah said:

It's XP you get from PvP. That sounds like PvP XP to me.

In essence if one drills down to a tertiary level you are technically correct, XP from loot is XP. 

Soon, farming a node of iron will give XP for the action of farming it, plus a double dip of XP by sacrificing the doober/loot.

Not so with players farming players, there is only one pay out, and that is not equitable risk versus reward with farming an iron node. The community at Large will do as they always do, follow the path of least resistance and farm iron for double the XP.

What I'm suggesting, putting aside the issue of exploitation, is rewarding XP for participating at a siege, chopping a bane tree, or tree of life. Or any action which encourages attendance by benefiting the individual to show up at group PvP events, and in my estimation that could be anything from dropping a siege engine to dropping a enemy player. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Jah said:

With the sacrifice system, you can get XP from PvP by looting people and then sacrificing the loot.

Considering how poor the progression system is, PVP seems like a waste of time until someone has a decent character. This will only increase with time.

Personally I'm going to stay in my safe place grinding mobs and banging on rocks until I'm full legendary. That's how you play a PVP game B)

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14 minutes ago, APE said:

PVP seems like a waste of time until someone has a decent character. This will only increase with time.

Yep, and with that in mind, 'Loot as PvP XP' may actually be more practical. You can accumulate the Loot-XP on a decent character and sacrifice it on new vessels. I feel like over time we will increasingly level our vessels via sacrificing stuff that we acquire with already-leveled characters.


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11 minutes ago, APE said:

This is why "PVP Games" need alternative forms of progression based on PVP. Be it achievements, titles, ranks, unlockable powers, etc. This is how pretty much all competitive games/genres function that have decent success. Everyone can't win a campaign, but everyone should have something to show for their time in-game. Harvesting and Crafting are pretty obvious while PVP only applies to the big picture which some people might have zero cares for

I would like to see some sort of long term progression come from these things but vessel xp seems rather useless overall.

People and individuals are hard to predict, it's my observation that a subset of the crowfall population has been supplied an additional motivator to harvest and craft which is a good thing because I hate to craft, and I only like to farm because in the past  it provided PvP opportunities. However I find it curious that the sacrifice system directly supports the Talent Tree, which directly affects PvP skills and abilities, and yet the additional motivators for XP are geared toward crafting and harvesting which is not supported by the Talent Tree. I can only assume two scenarios from this

1) Early combat is not desired because your basic skills are gated and combat doesn't have an additional motivator for XP

2) The Talent Tree is going to get a face lift and shift from PvP skill gates to environmental skill gates

I never thought vessel XP was useless, just redundant. 

From the beginning I thought the vessels talent tree should attune you to the campaign worlds environment, not level your combat skill, or gate your combat abilities.  

 

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12 hours ago, corvax said:

...

But what would really make my pants drop around my ankles would be a PvP game that gave XP for ... Well ya know, PvP.

Conqueror's Blade does. There's harvesting and crafting and it's fairly important at endgame for epic artillery and legendary troops, but you can spend 90-100% of your in game time doing pvp and progress your character exclusively that way. I wish more pvp MMOs would do that and actually make the grind the main fun activity instead of a chore you must suffer thru before you can have fun. 


 

 

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18 hours ago, Pann said:

There are no immediate plans to change it so that there's a rollover with XP into the next Sacrifice level. 

This is unfortunate for those who are sacrificing to level (most of us at this juncture, pending new 5.110 build hotness) as this is the ONLY reason I find this task to be insanely tedious.  All game mechanisms considered this is definitely small and temporarily annoying potatoes, but it also would be a very nice quality-of-life add and I speculate that it would not be that onerous to implement.

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I don't see a problem with PVP XP.

Could it be exploited? Sure. 

Just make it a small enough amount of XP that it's not worth it to exploit it vs. doing something like killing mobs, gathering, crafting, etc. Just make PVP XP icing on the cake. 


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I would want the xp from pvp to have diminishing returns. With a skull from an enemy sacrificed for good xp the first time in a day, then okay xp then meh xp, then bleh xp and finally no xp. Next day if you had more of the same skulls same thing. And if you can't take the skull you get a smaller reward on the body, like ears. 

A bag full of Souliens ears would be a good bag to have. A crate full of Mandalore skulls would be like angels singing down from above. All sacrificable to the gods for different rewards. One god. xp, another pvp consumables, another gold, another dust. You know. A pvp currency, convertible to other things. 

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Games I've seen that give character advancement for PvP start you out with a PvP viable character and skill set, and then unlock minor advancements with PvP achievements; e.g. scoring 20 headshots with a rifle unlocks a sniper rifle. As a new player, you are at a disadvantage to a veteran player, but it isn't unreasonable to score a kill against them, and odds are a ranking system will not pit you against them in the first place.

Open world adventure MMOs start you out with a know nothing noob, and unlock fundamental abilities as you progress. If the game even has PvP, you are only viable against characters of a similar level of advancement. Being open world, there is no battle matching system to pit you against players of similar advancement.

Crowfall may be a PvP game, but it's advancement system follows the latter model rather than the former. Fortunately, leveling a basic vessel has been a trivial task once you know how to play, and loot gathered by that vessel can be used to feed the next.

Edited by VaMei

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