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kris

Telegraphs Need To Go (New Gameplay Trailer)

  

498 members have voted

  1. 1. Telegraphs

    • NO, I don't want telegraphs
      308
    • YES, I want telegraphs
      65
    • I don't mind some telegraphs, but tone down the texture
      125


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I don't like them because they're ugly and they break my emulsions.  Almost as much as numbers flying everywhere on the screen.

 

Requiring the player to understand the arcs and lengths of weapons and striking distances is also a good way to reward skill and knowledge.

Edited by Rez

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I don't like them because they're ugly and they break my emulsions. Almost as much as numbers flying everywhere on the screen.

 

Requiring the player to understand the arcs and lengths of weapons and striking distances is also a good way to reward skill and knowledge.

Indeed, animations should give sufficient information on arcs and striking distance alone. A lot sexier and better in every way.

Member of The BlackHand Order

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If there's a valid argument to support the "telegraph" system let's hear it. Instead of just going after those posting their reasons for disliking it, let's hear why CF should implement it after it's 0-1 in games?

 

1- Crowfall has telegraphs, it's part of the developers stated vision.

 

2- The "telegraphs" in the released footage are known to be poor placeholder graphics, essentially you are complaining about something that isn't finished.

 

3- 0-1 in games?  Excuse me, have you heard of League of Legends?  Came out of nowhere from an unknown developer, had very primitive basic graphics at release (and while the graphics have been improved, it's still far from state of the art), has telegraphs, and yet it's been immeasurably successful. I'm not sure what game you are counting as your 0-1, but whatever it is you made a false statement.

 

 

 

>So dumbing down the combat in a game makes it more fun? I disagree.

 

Nice strawman argument.  Feel free to disagree with whatever other things I didn't say, if it makes you feel better.

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Indeed, animations should give sufficient information on arcs and striking distance alone. A lot sexier and better in every way.

 

Should, sure.  In practice? The actual damage hit-box never lines up perfectly with the graphic.

 

I'd rather have ugly but functional telegraph system than a pretty little pony weapon arc system that doesn't actually line up with the damage area of effect.

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1- Crowfall has telegraphs, it's part of the developers stated vision.

 

2- The "telegraphs" in the released footage are known to be poor placeholder graphics, essentially you are complaining about something that isn't finished.

 

3- 0-1 in games?  Excuse me, have you heard of League of Legends?  Came out of nowhere from an unknown developer, had very primitive basic graphics at release (and while the graphics have been improved, it's still far from state of the art), has telegraphs, and yet it's been immeasurably successful. I'm not sure what game you are counting as your 0-1, but whatever it is you made a false statement.

 

 

 

>So dumbing down the combat in a game makes it more fun? I disagree.

 

Nice strawman argument.  Feel free to disagree with whatever other things I didn't say, if it makes you feel better.

1 - Why there's a suggestion forum with 63% of the people voted stating that they don't want telegraphs.

2 - We, meaning the majority, are disagreeing with the usage of telegraphs as they suck. Plain and simple.

3 - OMG I forgot about Team Fortress 2 as well. Nice comparison. MOBAs and MMOs. Should we cap the CF server at 10 players a piece?

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Should we cap the CF server at 10 players a piece?

 

There's a campaign for that.

 

I really want a game with more detail in the melee than a cone indicates.  You swing a sword through a path.  That path is not a cone and your sword doesn't hit everything within that cone.  I want finer granularity in my fights.

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I think in a free aiming combat system it is all about position;

where are you ,where is the enemy,when is the right time to dodge or close in,...

Another important thing is understanding why you died instantly against a boss, for example

If you can't see the range of an aoe skill a boss uses on you,you wouldn't know what hit you,which skill,...

The telegraphs might be too prominent in the early gameplay clips,but I don't agree that they should be removed completely.

If the telegraphs stay too prominent they are as annoying as flying damage numbers though.

Might be best if they strive somewhere in betweeen "clean on screen' and "essential information" for tactical considerations.

Some weapons might have a total different aim section too,..

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Telegraphs are used to replace poor animations i.e range attack that's so miniscule you don't know if it's landing in front or on you, the worst offender I've seen is Guild Wars 2, especially with all the AoE particle skill effects overlapping the AoE telegraphed red circles makes it look terrible and messy. They should go for a clean cut version, activated abilities should be a toggle(GW2 client side directional attacks are actually quite good) if you don't want to see it and enemy effects imo should be turned off, with a finer tweak between character animation, max range perspective with the camera and on screen feedback in regards to being hit or with status effects etc.

Edited by billybowl

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1 - Why there's a suggestion forum with 63% of the people voted stating that they don't want telegraphs.

2 - We, meaning the majority, are disagreeing with the usage of telegraphs as they suck. Plain and simple.

3 - OMG I forgot about Team Fortress 2 as well. Nice comparison. MOBAs and MMOs. Should we cap the CF server at 10 players a piece?

 

1- 263 votes out of 14000 backers isn't the majority, it's just a very vocal minority.  The vast majority of backers haven't even visited this thread.

 

2- Correcting your statement, 1.87% of the total number of backers is disagreeing with the usage of telegraphs.  Sorry, but ACE is under no obligation to support such a tiny minority, no matter how loud they cry.

 

3- Now you are just making fallacious arguments. "OMG, Crowfall has graphics and king's quest ALSO had graphics, Crowfall is obviously going to be a single-player point and click adventure puzzle game!" - No, sorry.  In reality you can take a good working idea from another game and use it without the entire game becoming a clone of that other game.

 

----------------------------

 

 

 

Besides all that, imagine for a moment you are fighting a GIANT FIRE MONSTER, something I'm sure Crowfall will be full of after a dev reads my amazing suggestion post. The giant fire monster uses his powerful attack on you, and you die instantly! What happened?  Well, there was no telegraph whatsoever, so you couldn't see the attack coming. Sorry, you lose. Now you can't disagree with me anymore because the giant fire monster killed you, so I win by default.

 

How can you have amazing PvP raids with giant fire monsters if you don't have telegraphs?

Edited by karnos

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Besides all that, imagine for a moment you are fighting a GIANT FIRE MONSTER, something I'm sure Crowfall will be full of after a dev reads my amazing suggestion post. The giant fire monster uses his powerful attack on you, and you die instantly! What happened?  Well, there was no telegraph whatsoever, so you couldn't see the attack coming. Sorry, you lose. Now you can't disagree with me anymore because the giant fire monster killed you, so I win by default.

 

How can you have amazing PvP raids with giant fire monsters if you don't have telegraphs?

 

First off, good troll. Fighting a giant fire monster is not PvP....just an fyi (PvP stands for players versus player). I will be fighting 0 giant fire monsters because I willing be playing this PvP game for PvP. While I have hardly any PvE experience except for my 1 month in WoW, there's a reason the mobs have animations. So that people know the attacks are coming.

 

However, I have no problems with mobs having telegraphs so that PvE is easy mode. So I will kind of agree with you on that point, if you were trying to make a point.

 

I appreciate you bumping this thread.

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First off, good player. Fighting a giant fire monster is not PvP....just an fyi (PvP stands for players versus player). I will be fighting 0 giant fire monsters because I willing be playing this PvP game for PvP. While I have hardly any PvE experience except for my 1 month in WoW, there's a reason the mobs have animations. So that people know the attacks are coming.

 

However, I have no problems with mobs having telegraphs so that PvE is easy mode. So I will kind of agree with you on that point, if you were trying to make a point.

 

I appreciate you bumping this thread.

Haha... telegraphs = easy mode... You clearly have never done any kind of high level PvE. I'm getting a very PvP elitist vibe from you. Actually mostly just an elitist vibe.

 

Telegraphs have the beneficial effect of clarifying gameplay, the downside can be *somewhat* mitigated by their visual presentation. In WildStar there were a variety of parameters to allow you to tune the opacity and color of each different type of telegraphs, to make them as relevant to each player as they chose.

 

Of course it would be nice if all animations were so perfectly clear that telegraphs were unnecessary, but then the animations are just dressed-up telegraphs.

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Haha... telegraphs = easy mode... You clearly have never done any kind of high level PvE. I'm getting a very PvP elitist vibe from you. Actually mostly just an elitist vibe.

 

Correct. I am currently posting in a PvP game forum because I am a PvPer. Like I said I don't PvE because it's extremely boring and time consuming to me. There are thousands of PvE games out in the world that are more focused towards creating entertaining fights versus dragons.

 

Wildstar was a joke as far as PvP concerned.

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1- 263 votes out of 14000 backers isn't the majority, it's just a very vocal minority.  The vast majority of backers haven't even visited this thread.

 

2- Correcting your statement, 1.87% of the total number of backers is disagreeing with the usage of telegraphs.  Sorry, but ACE is under no obligation to support such a tiny minority, no matter how loud they cry.

 

 

Please lrn2statistics.  I'll even link you the relevant wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29.  While not random the sample is arguably representative.

 

Also telegraphs are poorly made sockse, and disadvantage geographic locations with higher pings (as evinced by Wildstar).  They have no place in PvP.

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Please lrn2statistics.  I'll even link you the relevant wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29.  While not random the sample is arguably representative.

 

Also telegraphs are poorly made sockse, and disadvantage geographic locations with higher pings (as evinced by Wildstar).  They have no place in PvP.

 

How do you misspell a forum auto-substitution? Statistical discussion already occurred. With a truly random selection, a small percentage of the whole is statistically useful. This isn't based on a random selection though, there is a huge level of bias in the decision to visit the suggestion forum at all- it's generally where people go when they want something changed.

 

And telegraphs have plenty of places in PvP, the #1 pvp game in the world (arguably), is league of legends*, like it or not, and it uses telegraphs. Whether or not wildstar screwed it up is irrelevant, it can be done correctly and it has been done correctly.

 

*Just based on twitch.tv viewing numbers.

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*Just based on twitch.tv viewing numbers.

 

lol

 

your post doesn't make any sense, should this game be first person only because CS:GO has the highest number of viewers during tournaments?

Edited by fenrisddevil

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I'm not completely against telegraphs, I think they hold some value and if displayed in a way that isn't totally offensive and in your face, I think they could be ok. But then I think about about games like Jedi Outcast or Jedi Academy and those games were largely all about saber combat (sans the force lightning spam, or force choke drops over chasms). These games didn't have telegraphs and it was about just knowing how to counter or waiting to attack. If there was a telegraph for every saber swing and everyone in those tiny servers were in the same room, I'd have had a seizure.

I get that crowfall will be a different game, and probably wont be as fast paced as the games I mentioned which would make the use of telegraphs alright. But i just can't imagine running toward a huge battle to just see lots of people battling it out atop a sea of blue triangles. Truthfully, I don't know how to find the middle ground so I don't envy the devs having to make decisions like this. I trust them to do what's best though....in the devs we trust!

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I am for telegraphs, as I think that It's a lot more enjoyable than other combat systems and casual play isn't too difficult to switch to. My mouse can only handle so much sweat


Edgy

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I think some people are forgetting a main thing and i'm not sure it has been mentioned since i didn't read through all the comments. 

We are potentially going to have massive battles. Massive battles require more horsepower. Some people don't have the best rig, which means they will have to turn the effects down. That means that without a telegraph, that player will not know that he is standing in a molten lava field.

Imo ENEMY aoe fields with duration need telegraphs for practical reasons, arc swings and such don't, since you see the guy smacking your face anyway.
Your OWN telegraphs are optional, meaning turned on or off via options. I voted 3rd option.


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Todd is Love, Todd is Life.

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