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kris

Telegraphs Need To Go (New Gameplay Trailer)

  

498 members have voted

  1. 1. Telegraphs

    • NO, I don't want telegraphs
      308
    • YES, I want telegraphs
      65
    • I don't mind some telegraphs, but tone down the texture
      125


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Already been answered Karnos, if your not willing to pay attention and think critically, why would I bother explaining?

 

And I have already answered the answer.

 

 I thought they whole point was people want to show how they are so skilled so they want the telegraph turned off.  If you can own people without them, there you go- you got something to brag about- mission accomplished.

 

If you can't handle playing with them off because of the game being harder, then consider yourself to be one of the lucky few who wouldn't be able to play competitively at all except for the fact that telegraph marks exist.  Yay!  The game is playable for you thanks to this feature, congrats.

 

 

you really don't understand it, or you just can't find a counter argument?

 

 

Well, it's obvious that you were using the slippery slope fallacy. I don't need a counter argument for a fallacy.

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And I have already answered the answer.

 

 I thought they whole point was people want to show how they are so skilled so they want the telegraph turned off.  If you can own people without them, there you go- you got something to brag about- mission accomplished.

 

If you can't handle playing with them off because of the game being harder, then consider yourself to be one of the lucky few who wouldn't be able to play competitively at all except for the fact that telegraph marks exist.  Yay!  The game is playable for you thanks to this feature, congrats.

 

 

 

Well, it's obvious that you were using the slippery slope fallacy. I don't need a counter argument for a fallacy.

 

Your answer doesn't address my statements, go back to the beginning and catch up, having ugly telegraphs and wanting the animation on the character to be improved so telegraphs don't look like an episode of sailor moon has nothing to do with removing telegraphs, it's about replacing them with something that doesn't suck, I wrote an entire design around it, and it's probably linked in one of my earliest remarks.

 

Now, try and keep up...


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Your answer doesn't address my statements, go back to the beginning and catch up, having ugly telegraphs and wanting the animation on the character to be improved so telegraphs don't look like an episode of sailor moon has nothing to do with removing telegraphs, it's about replacing them with something that doesn't suck, I wrote an entire design around it, and it's probably linked in one of my earliest remarks.

 

Now, try and keep up...

 

I'm sorry, this is a thread with dozens of participants, I wasn't originally responding to you.

 

Looking back I see this post-

 

 

 

I already caught onto the subject before they even announced it, but there are much better ways to produce readability than ground telegraphs.

 

http://community.cro...ols/#entry65642

 

Enjoy. 

 

So, you don't really say anything useful here, despite what you said. No statements, no diagrams, no argument- just a link to another post.  I guess your complaint is that I didn't respond directly to a post you made in a completely different thread? Sorry dude, I'm not going to read through ever post made by everyone in every thread before I made a response based on the current conversation in a thread.

 

But I'll respond to it now-  no. You are trying to reinvent the whole combat system.  You are not the game designer, you are asking ACE to throw away an entire game engine to start from scratch to match your ideas, I can tell you it isn't going to happen.

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Telegraphs on the ground makes the game look like a disco when there's several combatants.

 

They could make it so that if you mouse-over your ability, it will show you the telegraph of that spell, so that you can learn where it hits.

But no telegraphs at all during combat.

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Telegraphs on the ground makes the game look like a disco when there's several combatants.

 

They could make it so that if you mouse-over your ability, it will show you the telegraph of that spell, so that you can learn where it hits.

But no telegraphs at all during combat.

 

Great Idea..... watch it a few times and you know how the graphs are shaped.

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For me telegraphs take away from the mastering of your character and learning the ins and outs of how it reacts in battle. I like to feel rewarded by practicing with my character and spending time to learn what attacks work in particular situation. With telegraphs anybody could pick up the same ability you are using and have it down pat just as well as you the first time because the telegraph tells them exactly where to point and click. Another note is I enjoy stealth tactics, ambushes, and traps. With a telegraph the enemy would be able to dodge an attack without even knowing where the assailant was attacking from. I have a feeling though that the telegraphs are being used more for testing purposes and proof of concepts. I have been through many design processes and early on it is extremely helpful to overly display information while running tests to confirm everything is working as intended. Or I guess that is my hope in this case since telegraph combat systems have been used before. I would be mildly disappointed if telegraphing is the end goal for the combat system, but would definitely give it a run before I could confidently say that I could not play that combat style. It didn't work for me in Wildstar, but maybe Crowfall could find a better implementation if they are planning to stick to the telegraph system.

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The problem with telegraphs is that it lessens the importance of the animations as a visual cue of how your ability is working. The in turn causes the developers not to develop the game in a way that requires the animations to correctly telegraph attacks themselves, and relies mainly on the telegraphs on the ground (which players will mainly be watching, as they are a clearer indication of attacks). You can't then just turn off telegraphs for yourself, as the animation and combat has not been built in a way that supports that playstyle.

 

You may find a similar concept in the difference between quest text years ago compared to today. In games that do not have a compass/map that tells you directly where to find a quest objective, that information needs to be communicated in the quest text itself. If you look at quests today in games like WoW or Skyrim the actual quest text does not give enough information to allow someone to find the objective, as they assume you will just be using the map to find everything. If someone doesn't like the giant arrows telling them exactly where to go, they can't just turn them off as the game is not built in a way that leaves that as a real option.

 

Wildstar PvP was an absolute mess, and it just got worse the more players there were. The ranged abilities were the worst, many of them were so large you could park a jumbo jet inside of them. I think Wildstar also demonstrated how the animations become decoupled from the abilities they are supposed to represent. Many of the melee telegraphs extended far outside of the actual reach of your weapons visual effect, which made the combat feel like you were actually wielding telegraphs rather than weapons. Combat devolved into a fancy way of playing flashlight tag, with gigantic sword shaped flashlights.

 

The right way to telegraph abilities is to use the ability itself to show the effect, and range of the attack. If you see someone casting a meteor spell, you should be able to look up and see where that meteor is coming down. If I am standing outside of the visual range of your sword swing, I should not get hit by a sword. If someone tosses a fireball at you, you should be able to see a giant custard ball of fire coming at you, and GTFO. If someone managed to get around behind you and starts casting a fireball without you noticing, then they have outplayed you, and you deserve a fiery death.

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karnos, they pretty much suggested the flexibility and complete renewal of the system themselves, because it's difficult doesn't really refute the quality of the idea, but if imitation is your poison of choice, drink deeply :)


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Why not make it a toggleable option?

If it's an option BUT you wan't to be as good as everyone else then you gotta use it.

 

I'f you turn it off and you get none of that telegraph information while everyone else is, you're at a major disadvantage WHILE if they remove it for everyone then the game looks good and we are all on the same playing field.  ;)


YannMLq.png

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If it's an option BUT you wan't to be as good as everyone else then you gotta use it.

 

I'f you turn it off and you get none of that telegraph information while everyone else is, you're at a major disadvantage WHILE if they remove it for everyone then the game looks good and we are all on the same playing field.  ;)

 

this thought process is like quantum physics for some people here... thank you

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this thought process is like quantum physics for some people here... thank you

 

If you spent more time putting your ideas in to words like that instead of insulting people that would help.

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If you spent more time putting your ideas in to words like that instead of insulting people that would help.

 

I've explained it multiple times in this thread.

 

but people just jump to the last page and re-iterate stuff that has been discussed previously.

 

why should I "reward" lazyness?

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When I was younger I didn't really think too deeply into things but now I'm a bit older I like to think much deeper into things before I post something like... "give us the game for free, no sub, no cash shop, it will be the best game ever trust me." 

 

Basically think of everyone and put yourself in their shoes.  ;)


YannMLq.png

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I've explained it multiple times in this thread.

 

but people just jump to the last page and re-iterate stuff that has been discussed previously.

 

why should I "reward" lazyness?

You haven't made a single post in this thread explaining anything... you haven't even contributed to the discussion at hand.

 

I don't promote rewarding laziness, but in the same hand I don't promote insulting any player who doesn't agree with you.

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IF YOU WANT THIS TO TRULY BE A SKILL GAME, REMOVE THE TOOLS WHICH LOWER THE SKILL CEILING. It's that easy guys, no objectively true counterargument exists. And saying you want it personally doesn't count.

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