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Pann

Dev Diary: The Winged Knight

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15 minutes ago, starrshipcs said:

The Dev Diaries aren't anything; that's the point

Then why are you evaluating them as though they are representative of the upcoming marketing campaign?


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10 minutes ago, Jah said:

Then why are you evaluating them as though they are representative of the upcoming marketing campaign?

I evaluated them in ALL contexts and the determination was that they aren't representative of ANYTHING.  These do not make sense in ANY context; marketing, community management, release updates or anything else.  The content in these make no sense from a business tactics standpoint that I can see.

Edited by starrshipcs
I'm not bagging on ACE for the sake of bagging on ACE; I'm simply interpreting the information presented and pointing out HUGE issues with the logic behind it

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2 hours ago, Durenthal said:

ACE, your marketing strategy appears self-contradictory to us.

On one hand, you say you're marketing this to the non-tester masses.  You release garbage news tidbits and withhold anything useful about the coming 5.110 build on the theory that you'll get more attention with an information overload when the patch hits. 

On the other hand, you persist with cultivating your pet streamers and you continue to push "war stories" when there's no war going on because 99.95% of your paid tester base isn't playing.

You could release racial skills one race every few days if you wanted a little tease to build hype.  "Aracroix knight" is a waste of your time and ours.   Your absolute best marketing was when you were releasing "patch notes from the future" - your player base was engaged, and the mmo game sites whose attention you covet were writing articles about the coming changes.

You have so much you could write dev diaries about:

  • Caravan mechanics
  • Refineries
  • New racial attributes
  • Discipline Changes
  • Thralls
  • Crafting Changes
  • Harvesting Changes
  • Guild interaction (subguilds, alliances)
  • Stronghold buildings
  • How strongholds will work in dregs (who can build where, will some sites be restricted to fort level or will all ruins be buildable to full castle / cities)
  • How sieges will work in dregs (cost of sieging, schedules of sieging, how to initiate a siege)
  • God-specific outposts
  • Power changes to each class and promotion (that could get you 20 dev diaries alone)
  • New passive skill trees and progression rates
  • Frostweaver (again you could get 4 articles out of that, one for the base class, one for each promotion)

The list goes on and on.

 

You will get a better response from the gaming sites by releasing a long string of meaningful information drops leading up to 5.110.  The gaming sites want views - they'll publish every release.  They'd prefer 1000 eyes on each of 50 releases than 2500 eyes on a single news dump article.  And the unwashed masses who aren't backing Crowfall are perhaps not as stupid as you think they are - they'll appreciate more actual content in their news, too.

 

Bumping this because solutions deserve more exposure than complaints

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9 hours ago, KDSProm said:

IMO Problem is not with ACE - Problem is with the active community. 

ACE is not making/marketing this game to the 500-1000 people bothering to keep a close eye on this game.

ACE is releasing an information flow for the masses - and the fact that there are Wartribes in the game is old news for very few people.

Patience is a virtue!

Could be March but it's coming.

We potentially made this entire thing a reality. They likely could of gone the normal route without us, but they didn't. While they didn't say we'd be privy to every tiny aspect of development, the typical crowdfunding spiel was given. For a good while it was fine, but obviously things have changed as they've focused on getting this update out but the news cycle has been off for while. They even had a update a long while back responding to our cries and said it would improve. That went no where. That is a problem with ACE, their communication abilities, and lack of foresight in what they are capable of doing.

I'm sure they are all busy, but when they put out updates like this, it is almost insulting when they know what people are craving. I'd rather they go "sorry, we don't have the time," then some laughable fluff piece.

There is a long list of more interesting things they could shed light on that we already have some knowledge of. Likely won't please everyone, but it can't take that long to type up a few words, toss in a screen shot or two and throw it up on the site. If it does take that long, really wish they had spent some funding on finding people that could do such things. 

No clue why the "masses" would find these diaries interesting, be it randoms or non-active backers. Most of them are likely being patient and waiting for 5.110, open beta, and or launch. See people saying these things are and aren't marketing. Clearly it isn't clear.

Could be March, could be June 2021. They said end of February so that's what I'm holding them to. Considering the number of times they've missed in the past, I don't expect much and am confused why they continue to give time lines.

55 minutes ago, Jah said:

The dev diaries are not the “marketing campaign.” They are tidbits. The real news is still to come.

Tidbits for who? Who cares about a class being added to a PVE race? Or rather who finds this interested over the list of other things they could spend 15 minutes putting together?

It is something, but there is a lot more somethings to choose from that would take the same amount of effort, provide more interesting info, and appease the community.

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I think he is cool but wouldn't it be better to keep your complaints in the Development Partners form? New people are going to get a negative impression about the game and it's player base. The smaller the player population, the less chance this game will be successful.

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20 minutes ago, Kcing said:

I think he is cool but wouldn't it be better to keep your complaints in the Development Partners form? New people are going to get a negative impression about the game and it's player base. The smaller the player population, the less chance this game will be successful.

Sadly, not all of us have access to the dev partners forum.  You aren't wrong though, which is why I in particular (and many others too) have been getting frustrated with ACE not taking the messaging bull by the horns by either providing either meaningful updates or taking Ape's advice below so that expectations are at least set correctly...

25 minutes ago, APE said:

I'd rather they go "sorry, we don't have the time," then some laughable fluff piece.

I am very concerned that all this smoke and mirrors to protect some upcoming marketing campaign while also trying to dole out SOMETHING for backers, but without regard for backer expectations, has resulted in the exact opposite affect they are looking to have: backers feel insulted by being led along and prospective new folks seeing articles with no substance and all of this forum rage will take a pass on this game as just another Kickstarter gone south...  Ace opted to forego NDAs to increase exposure, and these are the unfortunate downstream ramifications.  They ARE working their asses off doing good work, but CF won't be near as successful if the community management aspect isn't properly funded and facilitated at this point; we are (reportedly) too close to launch for those ripples NOT to reach prospective players.

Edit: @jtoddcoleman, I think @Pann deserves an army for her birthday!  I'm certainly not trying to put any words in anyone's mouth, but if I can read between the lines correctly then I wouldn't be surprised to hear that she is sick of the phrase "more with less" :) 

Edited by starrshipcs

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31 minutes ago, Kcing said:

I think he is cool but wouldn't it be better to keep your complaints in the Development Partners form? New people are going to get a negative impression about the game and it's player base. The smaller the player population, the less chance this game will be successful.

we wouldn't be disgruntled if ace treated us the same way they did at the start.and people need to see they treat us like poorly made socks

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11 hours ago, KDSProm said:

IMO Problem is not with ACE - Problem is with the active community.

IMO...the problem is with marketing.

The frustration level with this game has done nothing but increase since they added a "marketing" person to choke information and yet the forum use and people who play the game have declined even further.

Crowfall doesnt even appear in the "most anticipated" mmorpg lists anymore and hasnt for months. https://www.mmorpg.com/

Edited by Toadwart

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As someone who has backed this game since kickstarter, actively played it for a decent period until this "treading water" phase kicked in and everything went stale.

I used to watch every monthly Q&A for a review of what was coming, now I don't even bother with that as from around December I think everything was "Cant say anything meaningful about what coming because marketing". This new approach is a stark contrast to prior patch cycles and the Q&A's presented along with the now defunct it seems "Patch notes from the future". While I used to get asked by friends how Crowfall was shaping up as the basic premise interested them they no longer ask, as for them the game has completely fallen off their radars as an alternative the current MMO's they are playing.

 

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45 minutes ago, Grivyn said:

As someone who has backed this game since kickstarter, actively played it for a decent period until this "treading water" phase kicked in and everything went stale.

I used to watch every monthly Q&A for a review of what was coming, now I don't even bother with that as from around December I think everything was "Cant say anything meaningful about what coming because marketing". This new approach is a stark contrast to prior patch cycles and the Q&A's presented along with the now defunct it seems "Patch notes from the future". While I used to get asked by friends how Crowfall was shaping up as the basic premise interested them they no longer ask, as for them the game has completely fallen off their radars as an alternative the current MMO's they are playing.

 

Is anybody okay with this marketing trend??


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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1 minute ago, mandalore said:

Is anybody okay with this marketing trend??

there are a lot of things i could ask if anybody is okay with and they are still happening. i have to accept that and train myself in patience, every day i try at least ;)

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significant achievement in driving player-first brand strategies

unique opportunity that live service games offer brands in terms of integrating player feedback into the development process

Pulled this from the team page.

Guess those active aren't factored into this strategy or process at the moment.

Considering the "masses" view of SOE and EA Bioware, I guess it isn't surprising.

Edited by APE

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Yes, Duranthal is correct that there are pre-release mechanics that could be discussed among those of us that would understand them and it would get us backers hyped...   But as far as anyone not currently testing, would not the added hype of any and all new info drive that potential new player to want to immediately try out the game?   And if the info comes before the patch, the new player cannot buy it and try it yet thus killing the hype.  I think we will get the media in nice bite sized chunks AT THE SAME TIME as the patch hits the test server and lead right on through to Beta.   We want the hype associated with the info dump to attract new players rather than appease those already involved.

New player sees cool stuff.
New player can't buy or play with cool stuff yet (only 5.10 content)
New player lost.

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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3 hours ago, Kcing said:

I think he is cool but wouldn't it be better to keep your complaints in the Development Partners form? New people are going to get a negative impression about the game and it's player base.

We are not ACE's marketing department. They have trained professionals for that that have assured us they're very good at their jobs and know how to engage the media.

We are not obliged to be positive, nor are we obliged to sell more copies of Crowfall. We are not highly trained marketing professionals, we do not work for ACE, and it is not our responsibility to sell the game. This is the actual community, honestly reacting to the actions of a developer whom we have already paid for a product.

It is not now, nor has it ever been our responsibility to make crowfall or ACE look good. They pay people for that like we paid them to make a video game.

If their trained professionals can not manage our expectations that isn't our problem and until I get a check in the mail I have no intention of making it my problem.

I'm not out to be negative for the sake of being negative and neither is anyone else. We are simply being honest. If 5.11 comes out and its the best thing since sliced bread we'll be honest about that too.


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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2 hours ago, Frykka said:

New player sees cool stuff.
New player can't buy or play with cool stuff yet (only 5.10 content)
New player lost.

Why is a new player reading dev diaries?

Why do they lack common sense to understand that upcoming changes aren't in the game yet?

Why are they lost if they've been following along?

These type of articles is the opposite of hype. It is possible to provide upcoming changes be it over time or at once, prior to changes being available. This is how ACE did it for a long while. They continue to give some insight during live streams. This idea that they should stop and only drop it when it is available makes no sense for new or old players.

If anything it makes more sense for new players to read about little pieces of the larger pie then get the whole thing at once. With so many changes that the devs don't even remember what is coming, how are new players with zero knowledge going to absorb everything quickly the same day they buy and log in for the first time. Handing out small tidbits of valuable details gives everyone time to think it over, discuss, provide feedback, and be entertained. This is what builds hype.

Edited by APE

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46 minutes ago, APE said:

Why is a new player reading dev diaries?

Why do they lack common sense to understand that upcoming changes aren't in the game yet?

Why are they lost if they've been following along?

These type of articles is the opposite of hype. It is possible to provide upcoming changes be it over time or at once, prior to changes being available. This is how ACE did it for a long while. They continue to give some insight during live streams. This idea that they should stop and only drop it when it is available makes no sense for new or old players.

If anything it makes more sense for new players to read about little pieces of the larger pie then get the whole thing at once. With so many changes that the devs don't even remember what is coming, how are new players with zero knowledge going to absorb everything quickly the same day they buy and log in for the first time. Handing out small tidbits of valuable details gives everyone time to think it over, discuss, provide feedback, and be entertained. This is what builds hype.

A potential new customer shouldn't see an add/article/news for 5.110 content and then not be able to buy in and play...  I think that is the marketing departments reasoning.  Think about it.  If we put out news which hits the web hard etc but the product is not available to try, you aren't going to get the impact of that info dump as immediate new customers.  It really is true.  Hype in this industry is measured in weeks.  Yes, little pieces is still the better slow trickle but start it once we can get into the Test server with 5.110 content and keep it coming all the way into the Live launch which will be Beta testing and invite all the $0 scrubs.

 

 

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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5 hours ago, Grivyn said:

As someone who has backed this game since kickstarter, actively played it for a decent period until this "treading water" phase kicked in and everything went stale.

I used to watch every monthly Q&A for a review of what was coming, now I don't even bother with that as from around December I think everything was "Cant say anything meaningful about what coming because marketing". This new approach is a stark contrast to prior patch cycles and the Q&A's presented along with the now defunct it seems "Patch notes from the future". While I used to get asked by friends how Crowfall was shaping up as the basic premise interested them they no longer ask, as for them the game has completely fallen off their radars as an alternative the current MMO's they are playing.

 

Evidently nobody remembers the dry spell from May to November waiting for anything on 5.3 the huge race/class split patch that took as long as 5.110 is taking.

 


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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