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Surelia

Communityquestion about 5.110 on TEST with bigger bugs?

Do you want today to be the day?  

60 members have voted

  1. 1. Even with some Blockers and many Crits....

    • YES, and i wont annoy ACE with the known issues
    • YES, and i will report any bug i find
    • No, lets wait until ACE has a good feeling with it
    • No, other cause...


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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Telonos said:

Crowds are fickle. Saying "I dont care about bugs, just give me the content" is, *in my opinion*, largely about a need for instant gratification. This next patch is a huge milestone,  it's very important that they get it right. I think Kraahk was spot on in the assessment that those who have the least invested (in time especially, not necessarily monetarily) are going to complain the loudest. It needs to be reasonably stable, even when it's going on Test first with a smaller pool. People will talk and it will be streamed.

It. Needs. To. Be. Right.

When you are at 5 years out missed nearly every deadline you set and have hardly a game; at the point I wouldn't call it instant gratification.

Edited by IsilithTehroth

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4 hours ago, IsilithTehroth said:

When you are at 5 years out missed nearly every deadline you set and have hardly a game; at the point I wouldn't call it instant gratification.

 

I usually don't comment on other's people post, but the absurdity of this statement has just left me confused. Pretty sure I've been playing a game for the past year that has been steadily improving albeit slower than I would personally like, but to state there is "hardly a game" is pure nonsense. I won't defend ACE for there slow development time nor praise them for what they have accomplished so far when they are certainly "behind" the curve, but at the very least I can be reasonable about the current state of the game.

 

I'm anxiously awaiting the next patch and have not put in any meaningful playtime in the past 6 months because I don't want to burn out, but stating there is "hardly a game" is just absurd. If you truly feel that way maybe just unplug from anything CF related and come back in a few months to get a fresh perspective. As far as the OP goes, I'm in firmly in the camp of let''s wait until ACE has a good feeling since they are the ones with the experience developing, marketing and running video games. I would venture the majority of us while "passionate" don't have the same level of expertise in the field, so we should just stick to playing the game and reporting bugs to help the game eventually launch with success so we can have a fun and lasting game to play.

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On 3/5/2020 at 1:26 PM, Kraahk said:

The farther we are in development, the more people join the crowd who paid less (to nothing, when it comes to the free beta players). It may sound strange and twisted, but experience shows that people who invested less, need (and expect) more, to be happy.

We're already here, or at least I suspect some of us. I did pay $5 years ago for the ability to post on the forums, but nothing more. The only reason I have testing access is because I signed up day 1 when they had that teaser site pre-Kickstarter. So I got put in Beta Group 3 that day.

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I kinda wish they would post a picture of all the new racial disciplines while we wait for patch on test :P would streamline the creation process a little if we knew what changed :P otherwise gotta create a new character for each race to decide what u wanna do :P lol


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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25 minutes ago, veeshan said:

I kinda wish they would post a picture of all the new racial disciplines while we wait for patch on test

I'm with you there. I can wait for test if it's not ready, but what I'm itching for is info on how the meta is changing; passives, racials, tallents, disciplines, & a rundown on frostweaver.

Since we don't have that info, if test was put up today, I'd probably spend the bulk of the first day just looking at those things and not actually even trying to play the game.

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14 minutes ago, VaMei said:

I'm with you there. I can wait for test if it's not ready, but what I'm itching for is info on how the meta is changing; passives, racials, tallents, disciplines, & a rundown on frostweaver.

Since we don't have that info, if test was put up today, I'd probably spend the bulk of the first day just looking at those things and not actually even trying to play the game.

i just want to begin theorycrafting things, even without testing it'll take up a decent chunk of time coming up with a plan


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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Staff said:

i just want to begin theorycrafting things, even without testing it'll take up a decent chunk of time coming up with a plan

pretty much same, personaly would like to get screen shots of the race disaplines get posted, and potential passive skill tree and talent however those are much harder to screen shot and you would have to get access to the patch to see (Passive talents u just need to get in char select) where talents u have to get in game :( so probaly wont be able to get those ones yet :( 

Posting a quick screen shot of the racial though is a fairly quick task so i dont think this is unreasonable request.

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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On Testserver yes sure why not. See the new content, find Bugs and prepare for the live release. On Live Servers probably better wait until the Basic gameloop works.

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To my surprise, even this active community is against early release.

For me it's a BIG NO.

Crowfall TEST will be open to ALL backers! That statement by JT tells me that they are bringing online much more then a test server. They are bringing online a full infrastructure to support multiple thousands of players if not tens of thousands. What we play in 5.110 can't hold 1000 people. 

Besides that the 5.110 in its self needs to be good enough or most non die-hards like us, will instantly give it a bad thought and that will propagate much faster then any good thought.

You only have ONE chance to make a FIRST impression!

 


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47 minutes ago, KDSProm said:

To my surprise, even this active community is against early release.

For me it's a BIG NO.

Crowfall TEST will be open to ALL backers! That statement by JT tells me that they are bringing online much more then a test server. They are bringing online a full infrastructure to support multiple thousands of players if not tens of thousands. What we play in 5.110 can't hold 1000 people. 

Besides that the 5.110 in its self needs to be good enough or most non die-hards like us, will instantly give it a bad thought and that will propagate much faster then any good thought.

You only have ONE chance to make a FIRST impression!

 

My Question would be than why? We are in an (pre-)alpha state and people should know what´s a game in developmentstate on a TESTserver is.
Nah ppl should also know that washing hands few times a day is always a good idea.

So it is the ppl ^^

But awesome how many are looking for the bigger picture and are actually concerned that a not so good first impression could have a general impact on how ppl come in contact with crowfall. So my pushing and pressing to get sth on TEST is kind of selfish. Well we will see how soon very soon will be, maybe 2 smaller Milestones would have kept the hardcoretesters a bit more cool, but that might have delayed the release even more.

There might be an option that really everyone that has access to TEST might look into it when it is released, I guess it will be more than we had the last milestones, still doubt it will be all backers tho. But sth they have to be prepared for, yes.

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They had a procedure. 

Release to the Pre-Alpha class of testers 1 & 2.  Get bug reports in. fix bugs. 
Release to Alpha 1 & 2. Get bug reports in. Fix bugs.
Release to Alpha 3. Get bug reports in. Fix bugs. 
Release to the beta classes. Get bug reports. Fix bugs.

Move to live server.

Some folks paid for the privilege of testing it early heavy bugs and all. (Some of the funnest moments in Crowfall for me)

At some point that procedure went out the window. And we have the current clustercustard of No info, imminent! Soon! No info! Not Today! Nien! Nyet!

I dislike the way this has gone. 

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45 minutes ago, srathor said:

They had a procedure. 

Release to the Pre-Alpha class of testers 1 & 2.  Get bug reports in. fix bugs. 
Release to Alpha 1 & 2. Get bug reports in. Fix bugs.
Release to Alpha 3. Get bug reports in. Fix bugs. 
Release to the beta classes. Get bug reports. Fix bugs.

Move to live server.

Some folks paid for the privilege of testing it early heavy bugs and all. (Some of the funnest moments in Crowfall for me)

At some point that procedure went out the window. And we have the current clustercustard of No info, imminent! Soon! No info! Not Today! Nien! Nyet!

I dislike the way this has gone. 

as i would be in a later test stage that would not make me happy, but i understand that the kickstarterbackers and investors liked it.

but that is atm an issue of not having an NDA, otherwise they could still go that way.

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17 minutes ago, Surelia said:

as i would be in a later test stage that would not make me happy, but i understand that the kickstarterbackers and investors liked it.

but that is atm an issue of not having an NDA, otherwise they could still go that way.

We haven't had an NDA ever. When they were doing the invites that way, they would ask the earliest groups not to stream, but otherwise didn't limit us, and those periods lasted a few days at most. Srathor is assuming that if they were doing it the old way, he would be in and playing by now, but that's probably not the case.

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On 3/7/2020 at 11:49 AM, Staff said:

i just want to begin theorycrafting things, even without testing it'll take up a decent chunk of time coming up with a plan

That's where I'm at.  I don't care so much about Dergs at this point in all honesty (beyond the hilarity of randomly shouting "DERGS!" of course), I'm just pumped to start working through stats, builds, etc. because it will indeed take some time.  Looks like they likely tweaked all the numbers, and you know their isn't any documentation coming any time soon, so will be plenty to do :)

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Posted (edited)
On 3/6/2020 at 3:15 PM, Sorrows said:

 

I usually don't comment on other's people post, but the absurdity of this statement has just left me confused. Pretty sure I've been playing a game for the past year that has been steadily improving albeit slower than I would personally like, but to state there is "hardly a game" is pure nonsense.

Well, you're in the minority. This is why steam's Early Access is so negatively viewed and why every chuckles and giggles at Star Citizen. Your opinion of a "game" is, to me, highly generous, but it's only recently that we've been able to "play" something resembling an actual game. Even then, a complete, in-depth and fully fleshed game it was not.

I simply think you're taking the statement far too literally, but in either case there's really nothing absurd about the statement. It's echoed by and large by the overall gaming community and maybe you're just a bit too biased in this case.

As for the test, eh, I'll eagerly await people to discuss it but until it moves to the live servers (and beta starts) I don't really care either way. I'm honestly ready for this game to release... it may be the only major crowded funded MMO to do so at this rate. Maybe.

Edited by Nightmarian

Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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6 hours ago, Nightmarian said:

Well, you're in the minority. This is why steam's Early Access is so negatively viewed and why every chuckles and giggles at Star Citizen. Your opinion of a "game" is, to me, highly generous, but it's only recently that we've been able to "play" something resembling an actual game. Even then, a complete, in-depth and fully fleshed game it was not.

I simply think you're taking the statement far too literally, but in either case there's really nothing absurd about the statement. It's echoed by and large by the overall gaming community and maybe you're just a bit too biased in this case.

As for the test, eh, I'll eagerly await people to discuss it but until it moves to the live servers (and beta starts) I don't really care either way. I'm honestly ready for this game to release... it may be the only major crowded funded MMO to do so at this rate. Maybe.

 

Based on the community and the voting it would seem I'm not in the minority, so please don't project yourself. Also, CF has nothing to do with Steam Early Access or the way it's viewed by me or this community for that matter. Stating it's echoed by the large overall gaming community has nothing to do with the CF community that has clearly voiced its opinion on these very forums regarding the matter and the voting on this Post speaks for itself. 

I'm sorry you're frustrated with the slow turn around and feel the need to lash out, but you should understand from my post in this thread that I'm not thrilled with the situation either, but I'm able to take a "rational" non-emotional stance. So calling me a bit biased is just as absurd as the post that I commented on in this thread. At least @IsilithTehroth had the good nature to realize he came off a bit emotional and reacted with a "sad" face and let the matter drop. 

However, you are coming in highly charged nearly a week after the post because "Test" has yet to drop and you feel the need to vent. Again, sorry for your frustration and I'm personally not happy with the situation, but please count to "Ten" next time before hitting "Submit Reply" trying to stir up trouble.

 

Cheers.

 

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22 minutes ago, Sorrows said:

 

Based on the community and the voting it would seem I'm not in the minority, so please don't project yourself. Also, CF has nothing to do with Steam Early Access or the way it's viewed by me or this community for that matter. Stating it's echoed by the large overall gaming community has nothing to do with the CF community that has clearly voiced its opinion on these very forums regarding the matter and the voting on this Post speaks for itself. 

I'm sorry you're frustrated with the slow turn around and feel the need to lash out, but you should understand from my post in this thread that I'm not thrilled with the situation either, but I'm able to take a "rational" non-emotional stance. So calling me a bit biased is just as absurd as the post that I commented on in this thread. At least @IsilithTehroth had the good nature to realize he came off a bit emotional and reacted with a "sad" face and let the matter drop. 

However, you are coming in highly charged nearly a week after the post because "Test" has yet to drop and you feel the need to vent. Again, sorry for your frustration and I'm personally not happy with the situation, but please count to "Ten" next time before hitting "Submit Reply" trying to stir up trouble.

 

Cheers.

 

I put a sad face because you are beyond irrational. At least you understand what the face represents though.

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1 minute ago, IsilithTehroth said:

I put a sad face because you are beyond irrational. At least you understand what the face represents though.

Beyond irrational is stating there is "No Game" when you are able to play a game from start to finish with a clear winner and loser, economy, leveling and PvP system. That is as you say "Beyond Irrational." Granted the full loop of the game is not in and it's missing many parts that would make it feel more full including a larger playerbase, but that is part of building a game from nothing and getting it ready for what ACE considers "Beta"

Sorry you're having a hard time wrapping your mind around this very simple concept, but maybe do a bit of research about game development cycles before backing a game still in "development" and then complaining about its incompleteness regardless of missed deadlines and making ludicrous comments because things are not meeting your personal expectation. 

Not thrilled myself, but can at least take a step back and say we are right around the corner why rush it now and it's not like there isn't a game to play and things to do if I wanted to. Best of luck with your emotional struggle over this, but don't worry I will be adding you to ignore and won't bother you and your "rational" world of there is "no game" again.

 

Cheers.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2020 at 4:59 PM, Sorrows said:

 

Based on the community and the voting it would seem I'm not in the minority, so please don't project yourself. The CF community that has clearly voiced its opinion on these very forums regarding the matter and the voting on this Post speaks for itself. 

 

Yes, basing your argument on the obviously unbiased opinions of fans hardcore enough to throw in very early and stick around on an unfinished game's forum is completely unflawed! Boy, you sure made a great point. Yet, if I hop on right now to "play" I can find, what, a server with 5-15 people. Boy, look at all that fun being had. Sit down a minute and ask yourself why, but eh, whatever; the zealous care not for facts or logic.

On 3/9/2020 at 12:55 PM, starrshipcs said:

That's where I'm at.  I don't care so much about Dergs at this point in all honesty (beyond the hilarity of randomly shouting "DERGS!" of course), I'm just pumped to start working through stats, builds, etc. because it will indeed take some time.  Looks like they likely tweaked all the numbers, and you know their isn't any documentation coming any time soon, so will be plenty to do :)

There are some important facts that I can't ignore. Right now, CF is kind of a "last hope" for a lot of people outside this small community. New World gave up on PvP and CU and Ashes of Creation are both flaming ships at sea in the middle of a storm, so no one expects them to ever make it to port. I'm just not seeing it though, but since it's the only one that might actually release as a PvP game at this point might as well see where it goes... but I've come to accept that boxed PvP is pretty much all I have left now.

Quote

Beyond irrational is stating there is "No Game" when you are able to play a game from start to finish with a clear winner and loser, economy, leveling and PvP system. 

The irony is sharp enough to cut, my zealous friend. Fine, let's not nitpick words. Crowfall is currently a "full game" that, by today's standards, would immediately fail if launched in its current state and still has a LONG way to go to meet not only established promises but also expectations of the broader gaming community (and a lot of us here, I might add). I don't think you're zealous enough to suggest that the game would do JUST FINE if it released RIGHT NOW without any changes.

For most of us, this isn't a game. It's a Frankenstein of features, and we mean "game" as a fully fleshed out experience. By your ridiculous definition almost anything can be a game; I know you're smart enough to know what we mean, so stop trying to be literal about everything.

Or hey, go ahead and tell me that Crowfall is currently perfect and would do well in the MMORPG market as is, or during ANY of its previous iterations. Because us supporters aren't even playing it much now.

  

On 3/11/2020 at 11:11 AM, Toadwart said:

Actually, its a strawman argument on your part.

Not one of those games is a fantasy mmorpg. Trying to argue, "well hardcore pvp is successful in a completely different genre...so let me apply it here", is kind of foolish. 

Do you know what all of the games you listed do have in common?

[1] that gear (items) are gained and lost at the beginning and end of short matches and has zero personal attachment or effort to replace.

[2] time is never lost or forcibly taken from you when you want to be doing a certain activity and another player prevents you from doing so.

In FPS, BR and mobas...the player is there to play the consensual match they signed up for, in the time they allotted for it to transpire and without risk to personal items. Its completely different...and also why its successul.

It's not a strawman argument. Crowfall itself is trying a similar approach through the worlds/campaign system, and they clearly explained why this is a good approach with their board game example. MOST competitive games do in fact "clear the board" because otherwise you DO get that same buildup problem, and, yes, that's why they succeed.

Right now however PvP MMORPOGs /open world PVP games suck and consistently fail. We need an evolution or a fresh attempt, and both New World and Crowfall/CU were attempting this their own way.

Your argument surrounding the genre is what's foolish. All those successes having the same thing in common should be something people take note... not dismiss, and that's literally what Crowfall is attempting to do as well, so I'm not sure what your point is. You too will have to "join" a consensual match with your own rules (like a game mode) and you are allotted a time to transpire without risk to your personal crow. Depending on the ruleset, you may or may not lose your items and can bring stuff out, but there is clear progression either way. I really don't see your point here.

Pvp open world/MMORPGs may be failing, but pretty much every other kind of PvP game is successful. Saying PvP games are inherently prone to failure is just foolish. And, again, like I said, MMORPGs in general are prone to failure, so it's not exactly like it's exclusive to PvP ones.

 

Edited by Nightmarian
Typos, Clarity

Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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7 minutes ago, Nightmarian said:

Yes, basing your argument on the obviously unbiased opinions of fans hardcore enough to throw in very early and stick around on an unfinished game's forum is completely unflawed! 

This is as far as I got with your response. The flawed logic of calling anyone that doesn't agree with you as being biased and a hardcore fan says it all. Please realize just because someone doesn't see the world the way you do doesn't mean they are "biased." Best of luck to you, but you needn't worry yourself any longer on me bringing my "biased" opinion as you've been added to "ignore"

 

Cheers.

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