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Miroko

Keep agro?

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Hey guys! im new ate game x.x, how i can keep agro at mobs? im dont saw any skill to let me do this. 

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Dont believe there a taunt mechanic at least not yet they may add one via discipline later if they add pve mobs that may require it. or find a good way to have it work in pvp aswell


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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22 hours ago, soulein said:

Some very basic taunt abilities added as part of another ability would be nice.

Warhammer Online did something like this. They had taunt abilities that when used on players, made them take more damage from you until they hit you a certain amount of times but also had the added function of being a basic taunt when used on PvE mobs. Would certainly be a cool addition to some of the tank promotions or on a few disciplines.

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Whoever is dealing the most damage grabs the most threat. If you want to drop aggro stop hitting the mob.

I mean sure people WANT to ezmode farm with aggro controls but shouldn't we be asking "is that even a good idea?"

Like, we assume that because its a mob we should be able to lead it around by the nose, but honestly, isn't that an argument for making them stupid and less dangerous?

Sure it makes farming more convenient when you can just load up your most durable fighter with taunts, but does that really lead to more engaging combat, or do we just reflexively want it because we want mobs to be easy to fight?


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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37 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Whoever is dealing the most damage grabs the most threat. If you want to drop aggro stop hitting the mob.

I mean sure people WANT to ezmode farm with aggro controls but shouldn't we be asking "is that even a good idea?"

Like, we assume that because its a mob we should be able to lead it around by the nose, but honestly, isn't that an argument for making them stupid and less dangerous?

Sure it makes farming more convenient when you can just load up your most durable fighter with taunts, but does that really lead to more engaging combat, or do we just reflexively want it because we want mobs to be easy to fight?

I agree with this. 

We are fighting the "hunger".  Hungry animals don't focus on the strongest members of the herd, they focus on the weakest.  Same goes for players doing PvP. 

In MOBA's, whenever possible you try to kill the squishies in the back line first if possible, rather than stupidly focus the tanks that are happiest when you are wasting DPS trying to take them down. 

AI that specifically focuses down the currently lowest HP/AC player would be much more interesting PvE than Agro/kite tanking. 

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On 3/11/2020 at 1:45 PM, PopeUrban said:

I mean sure people WANT to ezmode farm with aggro controls but shouldn't we be asking "is that even a good idea?"

Like, we assume that because its a mob we should be able to lead it around by the nose, but honestly, isn't that an argument for making them stupid and less dangerous?

Sure it makes farming more convenient when you can just load up your most durable fighter with taunts, but does that really lead to more engaging combat, or do we just reflexively want it because we want mobs to be easy to fight?

It doesnt have to be a 100% keep aggro taunt, adding threat to tank skills to keep them competitive with dps would be sufficient.

Without either of those, what is the point of a defensive tank when grinding in groups? They do little damage, dont heal others for much of anything, if at all and dont hold aggro to make use of their defense....

Currently, you are far better off with a healer and all dps when pve grinding. Tank specced characters add nothing to the group dynamic and that isnt right. Every archetype should have their time to shine in both pve and pvp.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Toadwart said:

It doesnt have to be a 100% keep aggro taunt, adding threat to tank skills to keep them competitive with dps would be sufficient.

Without either of those, what is the point of a defensive tank when grinding in groups? They do little damage, dont heal others for much of anything, if at all and dont hold aggro to make use of their defense....

Currently, you are far better off with a healer and all dps when pve grinding. Tank specced characters add nothing to the group dynamic and that isnt right. Every archetype should have their time to shine in both pve and pvp.

The same role the have in PvP. Peels, Bodyblocking, DPS, CC, and being less of a pain in the ass for healers to babysit.

Why must we assume group roles have to work differently in PvP and PvE?

They're not designed to taunt players, so there's little reason they need an additional taunt for mobs.

Not every character is good at everything. Complaining a character that is bad a group mobbing should be made better is like complaining a character that's bad at 1v1 combat should be made better.

If people wanted to build a mob farming character, they'll build one based on their needs or situation.

The assumption that one should need or want a "tank" for PvE purposes revolves around an assumption of a tank and spank combat system that we don't have or really even need. In reality the advantage of defensive types is that they're better equipped to SOLO farm than other templates, not that they can enable a group farm.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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When it was 5 yard range for melee you could park in front of the aggroed dps as a templar/knight/tank and block/soak/parry/smack and end up protecting them. With the tighter range the mobs keep scooting up and pushing you. Hopefully the 4 meter range will help.

 

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On 3/11/2020 at 2:45 PM, PopeUrban said:

Whoever is dealing the most damage grabs the most threat. If you want to drop aggro stop hitting the mob.

I mean sure people WANT to ezmode farm with aggro controls but shouldn't we be asking "is that even a good idea?"

Like, we assume that because its a mob we should be able to lead it around by the nose, but honestly, isn't that an argument for making them stupid and less dangerous?

Sure it makes farming more convenient when you can just load up your most durable fighter with taunts, but does that really lead to more engaging combat, or do we just reflexively want it because we want mobs to be easy to fight?

so whats the objective of tanker?

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1 hour ago, Miroko said:

so whats the objective of tanker?

There isnt one. Its a dead 3rd spec line.

It allows you to live longer, be ignored and killed after the rest of your group.

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3 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

The same role the have in PvP. Peels, Bodyblocking, DPS, CC, and being less of a pain in the ass for healers to babysit.

Peels...any non-tank can do this, ranged specs are arguably better and the CC spec lines are without question better.

Bodyblocking...this is a thing? In select narrow doorways of cottages? Really stretching on the validity of this one.

DPS...they are the tank spec, not the dps spec. They dont put out anymore dps than a healer does.

CC...Everyone has crowd control, healers and dps have it as well. Lets not forget the actual CC specs that are actually good at making it last.

Less of a pain in the ass for healers to babysit...this is literally the only valid point you made. Most of that is due to them being ignored for the softer, more damaging or healing members of the group.

 

The tank specs of crowfall have always been a trap for new players. Yes they live longer than the dps specs, but they are just awful in what they contribute. They will be even worse in the new patch when they lose the survival tray and have to drop any and all auras/buffs they used to provide  through disciplines.

 

Healer & DPS specs are the only ones that really serve any purpose in this game to date. Tank and Crowd Control specs have always been extremely lackluster and that doesnt seem to be changing with the new patch either.

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If your argument is that tank specs suck, shouldn't the solution be to make them in to spec that don't suck in stad of making them in to specs that suck at everything but getting npcs to hit them?

What's served by adding taunts to a useless spec other than to cement it as a useless spec only good for getting hit by mobs?


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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Posted (edited)

Warhammer Online solved the PvE / PvP tank spec blending years ago and produced an environment where tanks played the same way in both areas without being worthless or oppressive in either. 

I started a tanking thread back in 2017, as you can see....nothing has changed

Quote

No game portrayed the pvp tank better than Warhammer Online, IMO. Warhammer gave tanks skills like Guard (take 50% of targeted players incoming damage for them) Taunt (target takes 30% more damage from you until they hit you 3x) Challenge (cone AoE, targets do 30% less damage to targets other than yourself until they hit you 3x) and the Tank archetype was the one with 90% of the CC abilities. Other archetypes had 1-2 CC's at most.

Quote

 

I almost forgot:

Hold the line : You focus your defenses against enemy fire, increasing your chances to dodge and disrupt by X% for X SECONDS. You will also defend all allies behind you, up to X FEET away, increasing their chances to dodge and disrupt by X% as long as they remain at your back. Allies may have this effect stacked on them up to 3 times.This effect will end if you break your concentration, or run out of action points.)

 

 

Edited by Toadwart

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35 minutes ago, Toadwart said:

Warhammer Online solved the PvE / PvP tank spec blending years ago and produced an environment where tanks played the same way in both areas without being worthless or oppressive in either. 

I started a tanking thread back in 2017, as you can see....nothing has changed

 

Man, I remember that thread. I always thought the ideas there would be interesting once implemented.

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Warhammer really did a great job on that. Ofcourse you could also turn taunt into a form of CC which has been used in MOBA's. Instead of increasing threat, it forces the target to basic attack the one taunting for X amount of seconds. Might not do that much in PvE but it's a great way to use in PvP where you force a player to mindlessly attack and run after you, which makes up for all the defenses a tanky character would have to eat those hits.

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