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Pann

Choices Matter: Racial Disciplines

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Leveling the playing field with Racial Disciplines

FULL STORY 

P.S. I know how much some of you were looking forward to that Interactive Roads article, but no matter how hard I tried, I could simply not compete with the fine work @Staff and @Kraahk had already done in this thread. Kings to you, sirs! 


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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Posted (edited)

 

20 minutes ago, Jah said:

Did Guinecean lose the Burrow ability?

this. only interesting thing for a guin cleric. wonder if a generic issue due to removal of survival tray (see also wood elf camo?)

1 hour ago, Pann said:

P.S. I know how much some of you were looking forward to that Interactive Roads article, but no matter how hard I tried, I could simply not compete with the fine work @Staff and @Kraahk had already done in this thread. Kings to you, sirs! 

 

MdyctU8.gif

 

Edited by Tinnis

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Posted (edited)

Seems you guys are making some changes to each race lore while at it?

Quote

Fae: The Fae, once a playful and joyful folk, broke from their legacy as the children of Cybele and were cursed by her for their insolence. Males of this race are prone to fits of madness, and for this reason find themselves exiled from the traditionally matriarchal Fae society.

Pretty sure Fae Ladies didn't exile males when this all started. Unless you talking exiling them to unlife that is. Madness excuse is also new?

Also I don't remember Guiniceans having their origin as a straight up transformation of pets hamsters to humanoids by gaea. Totally might be me forgetting it tho. Just felt it makes their whole race that much less... interesting? Kinda hard to explain... Now they are quite literally, lore approved, overgrown hamsters instead of a race that  for god know what reason look like cute pets.

EDIT: Seems that was always the case (Guineceans part). My bad.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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On another completely different note...

No reason for you guys to withhold info like this. Not like you people don't have a full dozen full weagons of shinnies to tease us with in 5.11. Could have shown all racials at once...

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Posted (edited)

Why on earth would anyone play a guinecian cleric or knight without burrow? This was the only reason to play them. An extra ring slot or weapon damamge can't really compare with the advatages offered to other races capable of playing this class. Those templates were already underwhelming as race picks compared to other races, and underwhelming as class picks compared to a guinecian duelist. The utility of a pseudostealth option for the knight/cleric classes was really the only thing keeping it afloat.

Why does saltpeter rounds still end up on the guinecian disc when it is a duelist skill, and all duelists are guinecian? This is just confusing UX. Just put it on the Duelist bar. This is not a racial skill unless the other classes can use it for something.

Maken me mad is still awkward if it works as before. "small hits" doesn't really scale, and will become a worse ability in an almost linear fashion with how much better your opponents are, when you would theoretically need it more. This should just be "hits" I've experienced this first hand. It works great right after a wipe, but give it a few months and it may as well not exist until you're abusing newbies or farming mobs.

Base +resists on Minos is a good change and good synergy with their race/class options.

Fae changes are great. Removing Fae stealth speed and in stead giving them damage and basically a free hard counter against assassins makes them feel less overloaded without making them feel useless. Good change. Fae is still an excellent choice for assassin, but no longer the ONLY choice now that Nethari have the speed buff, and the reworked nature and toxin defenses make them interesting picks for their other classes.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Hm, ok.

Let me just say that i would prefer crafting and harvesting passives being applied to either each race (where it makes sense: stoneborn stone and ore, guinecean alchemy and jewelry (gunpowder and shiny stuff), wood-elf wood and woodcrafting, etc.) or to no race at all. 

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6 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Seems you guys are making some changes to each race lore while at it?

Pretty sure Fae Ladies didn't exile males when this all started. Unless you talking exiling them to unlife that is. Madness excuse is also new?

Also I don't remember Guiniceans having their origin as a straight up transformation of pets hamsters to humanoids by gaea. Totally might be me forgetting it tho. Just felt it makes their whole race that much less... interesting? Kinda hard to explain... Now they are quite literally, lore approved, overgrown hamsters instead of a race that  for god know what reason look like cute pets.

Sorry but that was ALWAYS the guinecian lore. They were uplifted as gaia's last act because a woodland creature comforted her as she died.

The madness angle on male fae is new though. Previously we were simply told they executed their males, but not why. No idea why they softened up the fae lore. It was way cooler when they just executed males and the ones on the run were basically loner refugees in stead of mental patients.


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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Kraahk said:

Hm, ok.

Let me just say that i would prefer crafting and harvesting passives being applied to either each race (where it makes sense: stoneborn stone and ore, guinecean alchemy and jewelry (gunpowder and shiny stuff), wood-elf wood and woodcrafting, etc.) or to no race at all. 

I agree leatherworking on a HG makes not sense, pretty sure dex/int are the main atrributes for LW, which is pretty poorly made dergsty on HG... blacksmithing makes a lot more sense

poorly made dergs

poorly made dergs

 

 

Edited by yianni

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Posted (edited)

TL:DR - Have race choice affect discipline choice.

 

Hoping to see more reason to choose one race over another. 5.11 is a step in the right direction from what we have been shown but so far it still doesn't seem like there are any tough choices when picking a race. I don't feel like I am missing out by choosing one or the other.

Hopefully there can be factors that go into choosing a race outside of the small stat boosts or minor abilities. Do things like, all Centaur can equip pole arms or Minos can equip 2h Swords. And then actually have the weapon type matter. Have race restricted disciplines. Actually, have a lot of race restricted disciplines. Make them more powerful than generic disciplines, kept in check by only being usable to a certain race.

When we built characters in SB we had to make these choices. There is just not enough difference between the races ATM. All races and all classes can almost take any discipline. They are different in that only certain races can be certain classes but that does not really count. No one starts with race and then picks a class. I don't say, 'I want to make a Centaur, lets see what classes a Centaur can be.' I say, 'I want to make a Cleric, what are my race options for a Cleric?' This is the point where I want to agonize over the choices. It is getting there, there really is not a default best race choice for say, a Cleric but there also isn't very much difference between a HG, Human, Centaur, or Rat Cleric. All 4 of those races would generally be built the same way, have the same discs, geared the same way, and play the same way. They would only differ in a few stat points here and there, a few abilities that usually don't get slotted.

Lets continue with Cleric and take the new 5.11 Guinecean and HG. Ok, they both get some flat stat buffs. Currently in 5.10 this does not matter very much as you cap the stat you want and move into the secondary and tertiary stats. This is why you see confessor books with strength and 2H hammers with Int. HG gets 2 active abilities. You might run either or both of these but neither are any reason to choose HG. Its also very likely that 0 of them would be used. Guinecean gets an extra ring slot. Very useful, but its just a stat gain. At the end of the day I just pick what ever is going to give me the best min/max on my stats because there isn't anything else to consider. But lets say there were disciplines that that only a HG or only a Guinecean could take. Now I have a choice that matters assuming both of these disciplines are good. Lets see a Guinecean only Major that increases your healing by 25% to other Guineceans. A Human-Cleric only Major that reduces the remaining CD of your skills by 1 second every time you cast a heal on someone. A HG-NonCleric only rune that applies a group barrier equal to 10% of the damage you deal.

We need more of, "If I chose this, I lose out on that." and the 'this' and the 'that' need to matter.

Edited by Yoink

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jah said:

Thanks for the update.

Did Guinecean lose the Burrow ability?

And Fae lost stealth speed?

The disc was probably taken on a Duelist. Duelist doesn't get Burrow (stealth by default), and get Saltpeter Rounds. Knight and Cleric don't get Saltpeter Rounds (No pistol), but do get Burrow

Edited by coolster50

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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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1 minute ago, coolster50 said:

The disc was probably taken on a Duelist. Duelist doesn't get Burrow (stealth by default), and get Saltpeter Rounds. Knight and Cleric don't get Saltpeter Rounds (No pistol), but do get Burrow

I hope this is the case.


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Hrmm... 

Do I share more of these Racial Discipline images - at least another Guinecean one -- or have the words "Thursday at noon" and "DERGS" taunted me so badly that my sense of generosity has been suppressed past the point of giving?


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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