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Toadwart

Frostweaver disappointing

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Years of waiting for the Frostweaver class and to say that Im mildly disappointed would be an understatement. Granted, its just my personal taste and Im sure someone will find it to be to their liking.

Issues I have with the class:

[1] Its just a re-skinned druid. Drop orbs (ice) players heal by running over your orbs (ice) or you blow your orbs (ice) up for damage.

[2] Frostcasters (the weapons) are beyond lame. Wrist discs when stowed out of combat (very tiny) and arm planks when extended during combat. I was excited to see a dual wield caster, then I see the implementation of weapons that serve no reasonable purpose or have any fantasy ties. Staves, books, wands all are staples in fantasy lore...the frostcasters look like weapons designed by the space draenei during WoW's TBC expansion.

[3] Spell Effects...while i like how most of these look, they way they litter the landscape is absurd. Granted 90% of the player base is trying the new class out atm, but you can see just how bad it is to have multiple people dropping ice everywhere and multiple ice dropped by the same person.

[4] Ground items people beside the caster need to interact with have a long and established history of not being liked by players or even just ignored. Lightwell from WoW's priest class is a good example of how much "other" people care to go out of their way, even a few steps to get a self heal or buff from one of these items. Now you have the druid and the frostweaver shackled with this mechanic. Clearly the cleric is the only class meant to be a reliable and premiere healer in Crowfall.

 

That being said, the Frostweaver suffers from what basically every class in Crowfall suffers from....and that is they are basically all clones of each other. Everyone has knockdowns, stuns, snares, ect. You can make one of every class and look at their talent trees and you can barely tell what class you are looking at after awhile because they all have the same talent choices with extremely small and few variations. Crowfall may have 1500+ powers or whatever the current count is.....but all of the classes look pretty darned similar to me when viewing the talent trees.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Toadwart said:

[1] Its just a re-skinned druid. Drop orbs (ice) players heal by running over your orbs (ice) or you blow your orbs (ice) up for damage.

I would go further than that. It takes a lot of what makes other classes unique and does it better. With only some moderately high mana costs and set up time as weaknesses.

Edited by Navystylz

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

i miss when the base druid had branching/chaining combo powers that meaningfully interacted with both each other and a coherent resource mechanic, before the dilution event.

Ya. Look at how good it looks (whether you like how they play or not) when the class is designed from the start with 3 specs in mind. Prior to promotion they have a full kit that is pretty good, then promote into specs that have distinct identities from each other. Not only were the other classes diluted, but FW straight ripes a lot of what other classes did and do it better, with at most limitation in distance. 

  • Executes better, and from range
  • Zones better while having healing, resource restoration, control and massive dmg in those zones
  • Drops heals that don't require stepping on them
  • Drop area heals that last for a long time

As far as feeling like a full mage class. Druid pre-promotion is a joke in comparison, with LMB clicking til right before promoting and getting Gaia's Wail (if it's truly fixed now). Post promotion, Stormcaller might still hit hard buffed up, but a lot of draw there was the endless channel of lightning that required no skill to aim so allowed cheesing of damage, is removed with the 3 part combo change to lightning. Arch-Druid is fun once they get the rest of their skills, and with Force-mage and proper use of blight can do some scary damage. But every time you make a new vessel if you don't have artifacts built up, you die a little inside. And would love to see a full kit shatter onto ice combo, with Archmage passive in comparison to the orb/blight combo, which thank god still has much better range. Wasn't much of a confessor players, though strikes me as off that to be tanky confessors range had to be nerfed hard and now FW tanks are range?

Even with that said, I'm not sure FW is for me. Going to test healing more and how intrusive this set up time for storing ice, recovering resources and the penultimate passive is for generating ice and how smooth it feels. Seems like could get a much better with better gear, full tree done, better vessel though.

This is all impressions, and have to see hard data.

Edited by Navystylz

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5 hours ago, Toadwart said:

That being said, the Frostweaver suffers from what basically every class in Crowfall suffers from....and that is they are basically all clones of each other. Everyone has knockdowns, stuns, snares, ect. You can make one of every class and look at their talent trees and you can barely tell what class you are looking at after awhile because they all have the same talent choices with extremely small and few variations. Crowfall may have 1500+ powers or whatever the current count is.....but all of the classes look pretty darned similar to me when viewing the talent trees.

Can't comment on the Frostweaver stuff but this a thousand times. Our 'choices' are not choices because they don't really matter. There are not enough ways to build characters. Disciplines mostly so underwhelming that combined with the new limited talent trees, limited bar space and disciplines needing 5 points each to unlock some builds will absolutely forgo them.


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5 minutes ago, Yoink said:

Can't comment on the Frostweaver stuff but this a thousand times. Our 'choices' are not choices because they don't really matter. There are not enough ways to build characters. Disciplines mostly so underwhelming that combined with the new limited talent trees, limited bar space and disciplines needing 5 points each to unlock some builds will absolutely forgo them.

Really hoping the game would evolve past that, or at the very least discplines allow for more meaningful changes. Idk, maybe I'm remembering shadowbane wrong, or the ability to change your playstyle a lot with actual weapon runes, choosing abilities by training a number of points into them, and having disciplines like the weres, sundancer for unarmed, and few others really made it feel like you were building something more unique than the next guy.

Right now Crowfall classes feel anemic after the split into 3 specs. And 90% of the discs are just extensions of a class or just feel very underwhelming. Doesn't help the limited bars make it so that even with disciplines you don't feel like your extending your capability without giving up other class powers.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Toadwart said:

Years of waiting for the Frostweaver class and to say that Im mildly disappointed would be an understatement. Granted, its just my personal taste and Im sure someone will find it to be to their liking.

A while back some of the art led me to believe it could be a pet class or even a transformation mechanic which could lead to Shadowbane-like Disciplines. There is art of a FW and an elemental along with this comment "as we get closer to creating and implementing the Frostweaver and the frost elemental."

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bzs1MsRACX0/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/010/499/574/4k/dave-greco-elementalfinal.jpg?1524746854

I wonder if they were going with one of those and changed direction for some reason.

No clue what goes into making a game or features, but I must be missing what took so long. The art is pretty standard, be it a bit more flashy then what most classes have. Ice seems very similar to Orbs. Already had the heal to dmg swap mechanic and visual, they just took it a couple steps further.

Very curious what they meant when they said the "new" tech was holding them back for so long.

Oh well, so far I enjoy it more then other classes as it seems like a class designed with today's game in mind, not years ago. Most if not all classes could use a bit of the same treatment. They have so many good ideas and mechanics already that they could make every class more enjoyable to play and challenging to play as or against. Combos being a big underutilized feature and one that could be used to make every class/power a lot more robust.

Edited by APE

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

Really hoping the game would evolve past that, or at the very least discplines allow for more meaningful changes. Idk, maybe I'm remembering shadowbane wrong, or the ability to change your playstyle a lot with actual weapon runes, choosing abilities by training a number of points into them, and having disciplines like the weres, sundancer for unarmed, and few others really made it feel like you were building something more unique than the next guy.

Right now Crowfall classes feel anemic after the split into 3 specs. And 90% of the discs are just extensions of a class or just feel very underwhelming. Doesn't help the limited bars make it so that even with disciplines you don't feel like your extending your capability without giving up other class powers.

You are not remembering wrong

You are not going to find an all defense, 0 attack rating, + power damage, duel wielding, quad proc Cleric or ambidex, dagger chucking, forgemaster stoneborn in Crowfall currently.

 

We got a race / class split and that was an awesome step in the right direction. But then we get 33 'specs' that are basically just 1. a dps spec 2. a tanky dps spec. 3. a bad dps CC sepc (and the CC doesn't matter with how DR, immunity and retaliate work atm) 4. a healer spec.

There are a few outliers. Paladin, arch-druid, and sanctifier all do something different and are really cool in how they play. But mostly the 3 promotion classes per class just do not do enough different from each other. They don't change how the class plays. 

Edited by Yoink

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

Really hoping the game would evolve past that, or at the very least discplines allow for more meaningful changes. Idk, maybe I'm remembering shadowbane wrong, or the ability to change your playstyle a lot with actual weapon runes, choosing abilities by training a number of points into them, and having disciplines like the weres, sundancer for unarmed, and few others really made it feel like you were building something more unique than the next guy.

Right now Crowfall classes feel anemic after the split into 3 specs. And 90% of the discs are just extensions of a class or just feel very underwhelming. Doesn't help the limited bars make it so that even with disciplines you don't feel like your extending your capability without giving up other class powers.

I kinda wish they pushed the class split into the first section the tree splits, move important active skills up to the very front and specilise the classes a little more in the regard to space for skills/talents that make the class specialised

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Yoink said:

Can't comment on the Frostweaver stuff but this a thousand times. Our 'choices' are not choices because they don't really matter. There are not enough ways to build characters. Disciplines mostly so underwhelming that combined with the new limited talent trees, limited bar space and disciplines needing 5 points each to unlock some builds will absolutely forgo them.

 

36 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

Really hoping the game would evolve past that, or at the very least discplines allow for more meaningful changes. Idk, maybe I'm remembering shadowbane wrong, or the ability to change your playstyle a lot with actual weapon runes, choosing abilities by training a number of points into them, and having disciplines like the weres, sundancer for unarmed, and few others really made it feel like you were building something more unique than the next guy.

Right now Crowfall classes feel anemic after the split into 3 specs. And 90% of the discs are just extensions of a class or just feel very underwhelming. Doesn't help the limited bars make it so that even with disciplines you don't feel like your extending your capability without giving up other class powers.

I remember when GW2 came out and I thought the limited tray space wouldn't allow enough creativity. ACE has shown me that it can be much worse.

For the hype they have about the limitless/complex character design, they sure have built something that restrains players at every turn and the meaningful choices are shallow.

Even with talents not being as easy to get, I believe most will end up similar. Most of which is basic stats until promos. Promos themselves add a little variety, but not nearly as much as plenty of other game's spec/talent trees. Disciplines being a "Sub-Class" system is a joke. They add flavor and some are decent, but the overall system and pool to choose from is lackluster across the board.

What could help that wouldn't require rebuilding things, which isn't going to happen, is adding more bar slots.

10 for all or keep it at 8 but add 2-4 Discipline only slots. Be it free or cost talent points. The new bar has already gone this direction with slots for specific items/powers.

This would allow players to keep most if not all their base kit then make the meaningful choice of which Disciplines and powers from them to slot. I want characters to be more complex, removing one power for another breaks even and is a trade, it doesn't really add to the build.

At this point they are going to go with what there is when it comes to complexity and variety, but I hope they expand on every system in the future. Advantages and Disadvantages is another way to make it more interesting, but I fear it will be just another way to play the which basic stat should I stack game.

At least increasing the power slots would be a relatively easy step to help.

 

Edited by APE

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2 minutes ago, APE said:

 

 

At least increasing the power slots would be a relatively easy step to help.

 

There no reason now to not have 9 slot baseline since they removed the passive that adds 1 slot and then human passive add the 10th slot so everyone can have 1 extra slot to work with would help.


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Just now, Heartsteel said:

I think this game suffers from the idea that all classes need 3 subclasses. Some I think could do with just two specs. But that's my two cents.

They don't need any if the base class had enough variety to allow for multiple builds to be created. As they are all rather generic and talents don't add much, promos are "needed" to at least give the illusion of variation. 

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2 minutes ago, veeshan said:

There no reason now to not have 9 slot baseline since they removed the passive that adds 1 slot and then human passive add the 10th slot so everyone can have 1 extra slot to work with would help.

This. Starting a new lobby: 9 Slot Power Bar or Bust! Join now!


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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1 minute ago, veeshan said:

There no reason now to not have 9 slot baseline since they removed the passive that adds 1 slot and then human passive add the 10th slot so everyone can have 1 extra slot to work with would help.

There isn't reason for a lot of things.

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Posted (edited)

https://imgur.com/a/WKjpp7R

I would wanna do something more like this when it comes to class talent tree, Shift the class split much closer and add more skill behind each one so there more specilised.

Benefit it allows for more skills to be place in specialise class area front of class split weill be general skills and after the split it be more focused on what there suppose to be focused around.
Also dropping it down to 2 classes each atm and adding the 3rd one later down the road might be easier for the devs too.

 

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Posted (edited)

I like the idea of having discipline specific slots. Maybe a overhaul on the current classes wouldn't be a bad idea as well .plus an overhaul on disciplines and new disciplines .

 

I also made a suggestion before that everyone gets all major and minor discipline slots for free . I don't see anyone not spending the points to get them 

Edited by yianni

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, yianni said:

I like the idea of having discipline specific slots. Maybe a overhaul on the current classes wouldn't be a bad idea as well .plus an overhaul on disciplines and new disciplines .

I also made a suggestion before that everyone gets all major and minor discipline slots for free . I don't see anyone not spending the points to get them 

I'm curious what builds ACE is cooking up where Major/Minor are less valued then basic stat Talent options. I haven't looked over many classes yet, but so far I don't see anything to make the previous build system any different. Disciplines have value one way or another that a few extra HP or Crit aren't going to replace. Even if I don't have space for a Discipline power, I likely can find one that has passives that will be more useful then basic stats.

I understand them wanting us to make choices but it isn't a real choice. If most nodes weren't generic stats or things we couldn't get any other way, maybe, but just not how it is.

Disciplines should be free and they should have their own slots on the power bar. 2 above or at the end of the main bar would be great. Beyond that then people could choose to replace their base kit on the main bar.

Edited by APE

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