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Toadwart

Frostweaver disappointing

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I kinda agree. The mechanics feel very recycled and the weapons (visually and functionality wise) are underwhelming. This is obviously a first impression, but so far I'm not blown away.

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4 hours ago, Navystylz said:

Ya. Look at how good it looks (whether you like how they play or not) when the class is designed from the start with 3 specs in mind. Prior to promotion they have a full kit that is pretty good, then promote into specs that have distinct identities from each other. Not only were the other classes diluted, but FW straight ripes a lot of what other classes did and do it better, with at most limitation in distance. 

  • Executes better, and from range
  • Zones better while having healing, resource restoration, control and massive dmg in those zones
  • Drops heals that don't require stepping on them
  • Drop area heals that last for a long time

As far as feeling like a full mage class. Druid pre-promotion is a joke in comparison, with LMB clicking til right before promoting and getting Gaia's Wail (if it's truly fixed now). Post promotion, Stormcaller might still hit hard buffed up, but a lot of draw there was the endless channel of lightning that required no skill to aim so allowed cheesing of damage, is removed with the 3 part combo change to lightning. Arch-Druid is fun once they get the rest of their skills, and with Force-mage and proper use of blight can do some scary damage. But every time you make a new vessel if you don't have artifacts built up, you die a little inside. And would love to see a full kit shatter onto ice combo, with Archmage passive in comparison to the orb/blight combo, which thank god still has much better range. Wasn't much of a confessor players, though strikes me as off that to be tanky confessors range had to be nerfed hard and now FW tanks are range?

Even with that said, I'm not sure FW is for me. Going to test healing more and how intrusive this set up time for storing ice, recovering resources and the penultimate passive is for generating ice and how smooth it feels. Seems like could get a much better with better gear, full tree done, better vessel though.

This is all impressions, and have to see hard data.

Executes only better on the DPS line due to cooldown removal and 50% executes

Healing is questionable currently  over my Paladin but I'm going to chalk that up to more play time on the Paladin compared to the Frostweaver.  Still learning how to chain combos & heals and its still sort of meh.  This also could scale better on late game characters but who knows.  Right now I would take any of the other 3 healers over a FW.

Im sure the DPS line is the best line and so far from seeing one of my guild mates using a tank version it seemed more useful than the healing spec.

The class in itself is pretty cool with the combos and the skill cap seems higher so we'll see where this class goes.

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7 minutes ago, APE said:

I'm curious what builds ACE is cooking up where Major/Minor are less valued then basic stat Talent options. I haven't looked over many classes yet, but so far I don't see anything to make the previous build system any different. Disciplines have value one way or another that a few extra HP or Crit aren't going to replace. Even if I don't have space for a Discipline power, I likely can find one that has passives that will be more useful then basic stats.

I understand them wanting us to make choices but it isn't a real choice. If most nodes weren't generic stats or things we couldn't get any other way, maybe, but just not how it is.

Disciplines should be free and they should have their own slots on the power bar. 2 above or at the end of the main bar would be great. Beyond that then people could choose to replace their base kit on the main bar.

Yeah I agree, there's also only 55 talent points now

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Posted (edited)

I only got an hour or so of play in but did you guys get to delve into the frost weaving function of the class at all? It seems like the core ability is a "weaving" skill

that is always thrown out with a combo. Depending on what combo you throw out it has a lot of affects. I noted a healing affect, a mana restoration effect (that also does healing as the healing variant), and if I remember right there was a defensive buff effect and a couple damages that had like CC or something for at least one of them.

I was just starting to get to the point I could comfortably weave the support effects when the server shut down so I didn't delve into it as deeply as I would have liked with just an hour or so to play it.

Anyway. The weaving mechanic didn't feel generic at all to me. At least it's VERY different from healing as a cleric. I'm imagining good frostweavers or any spec are probably going to be ones that master weaving out the right ability in the right situation. Maybe some of you got more time on it than me but it feels WAY too early to throw out a verdict on it as a class.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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4 hours ago, APE said:

For the hype they have about the limitless/complex character design, they sure have built something that restrains players at every turn and the meaningful choices are shallow.

Even with talents not being as easy to get, I believe most will end up similar. Most of which is basic stats until promos. Promos themselves add a little variety, but not nearly as much as plenty of other game's spec/talent trees. Disciplines being a "Sub-Class" system is a joke. They add flavor and some are decent, but the overall system and pool to choose from is lackluster across the board.

This. So much. There is really no meaningful choice when most nodes are stat type boosts or specific to: am I dps? ok I need to take the AP or crit nodes. And this doubling down on restricting us isn't making it any better.

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23 minutes ago, Andius said:

I only got an hour or so of play in but did you guys get to delve into the frost weaving function of the class at all? It seems like the core ability is a "weaving" skill

that is always thrown out with a combo. Depending on what combo you throw out it has a lot of affects. I noted a healing affect, a mana restoration effect (that also does healing as the healing variant), and if I remember right there was a defensive buff effect and a couple damages that had like CC or something for at least one of them.

I was just starting to get to the point I could comfortably weave the support effects when the server shut down so I didn't delve into it as deeply as I would have liked with just an hour or so to play it.

Anyway. The weaving mechanic didn't feel generic at all to me. At least it's VERY different from healing as a cleric. I'm imagining good frostweavers or any spec are probably going to be ones that master weaving out the right ability in the right situation. Maybe some of you got more time on it than me but it feels WAY too early to throw out a verdict on it as a class.

I likely will play a FW if I end up playing this at launch and other classes don't change. Haven't had enough time with it yet but does seem like a higher skill ceiling then most classes. However, part of that is due to the other classes being basic or one trick. I wouldn't call FW generic at all, but confused what tech they created for it specifically that supposedly held the class up for years. Weaving/Ice seem like Druid Orbs on steroids, but not years in the making.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, MrErad said:

Executes only better on the DPS line due to cooldown removal and 50% executes

Healing is questionable currently  over my Paladin but I'm going to chalk that up to more play time on the Paladin compared to the Frostweaver.  Still learning how to chain combos & heals and its still sort of meh.  This also could scale better on late game characters but who knows.  Right now I would take any of the other 3 healers over a FW.

Im sure the DPS line is the best line and so far from seeing one of my guild mates using a tank version it seemed more useful than the healing spec.

The class in itself is pretty cool with the combos and the skill cap seems higher so we'll see where this class goes.

1. Well only one of the templar lines can spec into spammable execute as well. So it's not saying much that only one of the FW lines can.

2. Some of the healing is bugged on FW and not working properly as well.

3. Lol rolling a new FW in prep to level tank tomorrow. Because I was kind of wondering the same thing.

4. It's fun. The more you play the more you learn to better weave.

  • Doing things like permanet zoning by using wave to turn  all ice into freezing, then chill out to turn it back into cool ice. Then just pulling things while being on the edge and using other ice freely while you resources stay up. Keep refreshing the timer by using those abilities on it and you won't actually have to create the zone again.
  • If you finish with freezing or cool ice, use ice weave to convert the ice back into stable ice so you can pick them up to move on to new location. This lets lets you use the storage to reset your zone without the massive mana cost.
  • Starting with cool ice to bring resources and some health up on targets, then drop refreshing breeze on it to turn them all into refreshing ice to explode heal and heal with refreshing breeze. Or set up the cool ice zone and just free weave refreshing ice and copy stable over and over while your cool ice zone keeps your resources up.

Obvious gets better with better vessel and gear, and things not being bugged. Even as healer the dmg is pretty crazy. Will get to point where won't even feel like you can die because it's too easy to keep resources up and heal, and heals will only get stronger.

Edited by Navystylz

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, APE said:

I likely will play a FW if I end up playing this at launch and other classes don't change. Haven't had enough time with it yet but does seem like a higher skill ceiling then most classes. However, part of that is due to the other classes being basic or one trick. I wouldn't call FW generic at all, but confused what tech they created for it specifically that supposedly held the class up for years. Weaving/Ice seem like Druid Orbs on steroids, but not years in the making.

I'm no expert on druids but it seems pretty different to me. As far as I know Earthkeepers spawn healing orbs that heal themselves and team mates when you pick them up. Archdruids spawn the same thing but their healing is crap and you don't want allies to pick them up so that the ArchDruid can explode them

Hence why I made this topic.

The Frostweaving is more you drop a single ability. Some of them affect an area for a time like a cleric or paladin circle, some of them are just instant AoE effects. There are like 4(?) different ones. So you're weaving in a bunch of AoE effects and mastery of the class is mastering your combos so you can get them all off reliably / picking the right one for the right situation.

It seems very different from other classes to me. I'm not sure if it's GOOD or not yet. But it seems different. 

I'm also confused why it would take years to make that one mechanic work, buy my guess is it had less to do with the difficulty of implementations and more to do with just not being a super high priority.

 

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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2 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

This. So much. There is really no meaningful choice when most nodes are stat type boosts or specific to: am I dps? ok I need to take the AP or crit nodes. And this doubling down on restricting us isn't making it any better.

What I find funny and sad is they've made a great stat system overall but limit our use of it. It's like if they gave us a bucket of 1000 lego pieces of all shapes and sizes but only let us grab a small handful. Sure we can build some basic little thing, but it's such a waste.

There are several things they could do that wouldn't require starting from scratch, they just need to build on the already strong systems.

Ex: Add more stat options to talent trees and increase how many points we can put in each node.

If I want to spend 10 points in Poison Resist or Spring Speed or Perception, why not? This is where people could get creative and really tailor a character and build to their needs. Long as their is still more good options then points available, works the same.

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9 minutes ago, Andius said:

I'm also confused why it would take years to make that one mechanic work, buy my guess is it had less to do with the difficulty of implementations and more to do with just not being a super high priority.

I think there also might be more with the focus gems, ice build up and stuff that we're not really seeing much of yet. The tech that was build being having abilities that can change on the fly, and these other features. I dunno that it would take years either, but there's more depth to it than we think probably.

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6 minutes ago, Andius said:

I'm no expert on druids but it seems pretty different to me. As far as I know Earthkeepers spawn healing orbs that heal themselves and team mates when you pick them up. Archdruids spawn the same thing but their healing is crap and you don't want allies to pick them up so that the ArchDruid can explode them

Hence why I made this topic.

The Frostweaving is more you drop a single ability. Some of them affect an area for a time like a cleric or paladin circle, some of them are just instant AoE effects. There are like 4(?) different ones. So you're weaving in a bunch of AoE effects and mastery of the class is mastering your combos so you can get them all off reliably / picking the right one for the right situation.

It seems very different from other classes to me. I'm not sure if it's GOOD or not yet. But it seems different. 

I'm also confused why it would take years to make that one mechanic work, buy my guess is it had less to do with the difficulty of implementations and more to do with just not being a super high priority.

The playstyle and class overall is clearly different then others, but I meant the mechanics/tech seems either direct copies or repurposing mechanics from other classes/powers.

Druid orbs could already change status/visuals from good to bad. They could already be interacted with by everyone. There are already plenty of AOEs giving whatever effects. Have things like Traps that trigger when someone walks on them.

Collecting Ice to store it is new I guess but doesn't seem like a complex tech to create.

I like the class from my limited experience and only wish more classes were like it. Still as I've wanted to see it from the start (remember they had a "FW" in the kickstarter video), I'm just left scratching my head what took so long and what this mysterious tech is that was to blame for at least some of the delayed release. If it was just low priority that would be one thing, but they specifically said it was tech related when they rarely would answer FW questions.

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I find the whole ice blocks changing states depending on the power you use near them quite interesting, as it places more emphasis on knowing your class and powers, rather than just face rolling.
So far, I'm a big fan of the class.


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50 minutes ago, Groovin said:

I find the whole ice blocks changing states depending on the power you use near them quite interesting, as it places more emphasis on knowing your class and powers, rather than just face rolling.
So far, I'm a big fan of the class.

Yeah, I'm far from sold on it being a class I would switch to, but I'm also certainly not ruling that out or disappointed yet either.

It's interesting. Once I max it and play around with it a bit at max level I should have a much better idea of it's a class I'm interested in mastering or if it's not really my cup-of-tea.

 


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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39 minutes ago, Andius said:

Yeah, I'm far from sold on it being a class I would switch to, but I'm also certainly not ruling that out or disappointed yet either.

It's interesting. Once I max it and play around with it a bit at max level I should have a much better idea of it's a class I'm interested in mastering or if it's not really my cup-of-tea.

 

For sure. Like, the options you have with Weaving can be broken up depending on your spec, which makes it a little simpler than it appears. But the fact that the options are there from the beginning is what interests me. It doesn't have to be that simple. Though I feel the comparisons to druid aren't entirely wrong, but it feels a little more like Druid before specs. Not on the same level or better, but leaning more into it. And I like it. I think we need those baseline options that make a class wholly viable, before you choose a spec.


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7 hours ago, Navystylz said:

1. Well only one of the templar lines can spec into spammable execute as well. So it's not saying much that only one of the FW lines can.

2. Some of the healing is bugged on FW and not working properly as well.

3. Lol rolling a new FW in prep to level tank tomorrow. Because I was kind of wondering the same thing.

4. It's fun. The more you play the more you learn to better weave.

  • Doing things like permanet zoning by using wave to turn  all ice into freezing, then chill out to turn it back into cool ice. Then just pulling things while being on the edge and using other ice freely while you resources stay up. Keep refreshing the timer by using those abilities on it and you won't actually have to create the zone again.
  • If you finish with freezing or cool ice, use ice weave to convert the ice back into stable ice so you can pick them up to move on to new location. This lets lets you use the storage to reset your zone without the massive mana cost.
  • Starting with cool ice to bring resources and some health up on targets, then drop refreshing breeze on it to turn them all into refreshing ice to explode heal and heal with refreshing breeze. Or set up the cool ice zone and just free weave refreshing ice and copy stable over and over while your cool ice zone keeps your resources up.

Obvious gets better with better vessel and gear, and things not being bugged. Even as healer the dmg is pretty crazy. Will get to point where won't even feel like you can die because it's too easy to keep resources up and heal, and heals will only get stronger.

 I still haven't seen refreshing ice heal my manna. Unless it's a healer spec talent 

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12 hours ago, APE said:

A while back some of the art led me to believe it could be a pet class or even a transformation mechanic which could lead to Shadowbane-like Disciplines. There is art of a FW and an elemental along with this comment "as we get closer to creating and implementing the Frostweaver and the frost elemental."

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bzs1MsRACX0/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/010/499/574/4k/dave-greco-elementalfinal.jpg?1524746854

I wonder if they were going with one of those and changed direction for some reason.

No clue what goes into making a game or features, but I must be missing what took so long. The art is pretty standard, be it a bit more flashy then what most classes have. Ice seems very similar to Orbs. Already had the heal to dmg swap mechanic and visual, they just took it a couple steps further.

Very curious what they meant when they said the "new" tech was holding them back for so long.

Oh well, so far I enjoy it more then other classes as it seems like a class designed with today's game in mind, not years ago. Most if not all classes could use a bit of the same treatment. They have so many good ideas and mechanics already that they could make every class more enjoyable to play and challenging to play as or against. Combos being a big underutilized feature and one that could be used to make every class/power a lot more robust.

Yes frostweaver was a pet class initially but scraped it for this.

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14 minutes ago, pamintandrei said:

Yes frostweaver was a pet class initially but scraped it for this.

i dont think a pet class would be fun in CF so im happy with this change


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18 minutes ago, Staff said:

i dont think a pet class would be fun in CF so im happy with this change

That is debatable but it kinda shows that this wasn't their first idea and had to throw something togheter.

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devs, instead to improve and make more unique futures to current classes which are still semi broken (unbalanced) you introduce another oneshot mechanics to the game.

also it seems what frostweaver is a boring version of druid with copy-paste most of mechanics which are colored as blue.

 

doh


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