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Littleshoes

So uh...how close is this to beta again?

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1 hour ago, APE said:

Being a merchant and a crafter are different depending on the game or individual. A design can clump them together, but they don't have to.

The CF crafting system is highly inspired by SWG, and that is a crafter+merchant system. It's absolutely what I was expecting CF to have, and ACE has always said no auction house.


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2 hours ago, miraluna said:

The CF crafting system is highly inspired by SWG, and that is a crafter+merchant system. It's absolutely what I was expecting CF to have, and ACE has always said no auction house.

What you and Pope are describing doesn't remove the value that making crafting more engaging could add. Seems like you two prefer to be merchants that happen to also do XYZ to fuel the merchant business. To me it is two distinct roles that you can choose to play in unison, not one system that has to be done one way. Someone could be a merchant that focuses on PVE loot, harvest goods, player skulls, building materials, simply trading itself without any side role, etc. Doesn't mean any of those systems shouldn't be engaging because you want to run a shop and socialize. Like if I said I want to be a merchant and only PVP once in a while so combat shouldn't be big deal or interesting. Having a crafting system that is more then clicking boxes in a UI and having a merchant run economy are not mutually exclusive.

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I think crafters can be summed in two kinds of people. The first gives importance to the act of crafting, the other to the results.

CF seems to be making a game where the results is what matters. Yes, the process isnt interactive but as a result CF crafting has RULES in place.

CF crafting is more akin to real chemistry. People think what we do is super fun when in reality most of the time we only follow a recipe and hope we dont mess it up. Plus a whole lot of waiting. We dont care for the process, we care for the results.

Can you imagine if chemistry was determined by timing measured in seconds? Would be like playing dice. Again and again. We would be trading control for enjoyment/more agency. I would never do that trade.

Yes, CF crafting is more akin to following a recipe but that and its rigid rules give players control.

I think people also dont really notice how those interactive mechanics work. Make it hard and it becomes a matter of luck, make it too forgiving and it is useless and no more than a fancy overlay to the real stat, knobs and mechanics hidden in the code.

I'd rather crafters be people who can plan well than people with good timing.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BarriaKarl said:

I think crafters can be summed in two kinds of people. The first gives importance to the act of crafting, the other to the results.

CF seems to be making a game where the results is what matters. Yes, the process isnt interactive but as a result CF crafting has RULES in place.

CF crafting is more akin to real chemistry. People think what we do is super fun when in reality most of the time we only follow a recipe and hope we dont mess it up. Plus a whole lot of waiting. We dont care for the process, we care for the results.

Can you imagine if chemistry was determined by timing measured in seconds? Would be like playing dice. Again and again. We would be trading control for enjoyment/more agency. I would never do that trade.

Yes, CF crafting is more akin to following a recipe but that and its rigid rules give players control.

I think people also dont really notice how those interactive mechanics work. Make it hard and it becomes a matter of luck, make it too forgiving and it is useless and no more than a fancy overlay to the real stat, knobs and mechanics hidden in the code.

I'd rather crafters be people who can plan well than people with good timing.

better version of what I was trying to say about a minigame being different knobs.

Also, I really don't think they're different spheres of play. If you're not crafting for wide distribution either for sale or to supply a large organization then you don't really experience enough demand to be a "primary" crafter. You make enough items for yourself and... that's it. That's not gonna drive crafting as a primary activity.

because crafting as a primary activity also implies crafting for scale, scaling efficiently and reliably seems to be pretty important to designing crafting systems, which may be why you don't see a ton of "gamey" crafting systems outside games where it is the primary loop, or done infrequently just for one's personal use (stuff like cook serve delicious, job simulator, cooking mama, the "only for me" curry crafting in the new pokemon game, etc.)

When it has to be part of other loops, that scale is crucial to competition, which means reliability of the process has to be a design goal. That's also why in most systems, including CF, getting "better" at crafting is about removing uncertainty and randomness from the process. You get upgrades to have your crafts be more reliable, because your materials are largely the gate to determine quality and function, and materials have their own sets of designs for the challenge and mechanics of acquiring them.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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