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ShadowwBoi13

Good Time For Advantages and Disadvantages?

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I know Advantages/Disadvantages were put on hold before or were waiting for post launch or something but with the addition of permanent non-slotted passives for 5.110 i was thinking that now would be a good time to get working on Advantages and Disadvantages when creating characters. The tech has already been made and it should be easy to implement with the passive changes. It could literally just be you buying passives that effect your character on character creation or something like that. 

I only bring this up now because with the wipe and everyone starting fresh and passive training not being as far forward things are progressing a bit slowly on the crafting side and what not since no one is trained and wartribes drop the best gear obtainable right now. implementing advantages/disadvantages to add ways to customize characters and boost some stats a bit would be a good way to allow people to get head starts on what they want and bypass the early drought of training. Its also a good way for new players to actually be somewhat useful after starting and not be completely gimped behind waiting a month just to start crafting in their preferred profession or actually being able to harvest something better than whites.

Having some advantages like +50 Blacksmithing Experimentation and +5 Blacksmithing Experimentation Points for crafters, and +1 Plentiful Harvest ALL OR +2 Plentiful Harvest Wood (or some other specific harvesting) or +20 Skinning etc for Harvesters, and then some +AP and +SP and other base combat stats for fighters. Would be a good way to jump start the players with needed stats to begin working towards what they are training towards, that over time can be traded for other things as they get more advanced vessels and have had time to train more.

Disadvantages could be the flipped versions too, get some -50 Runecrafting Experimentation and -20 Necromancy Assembly, and Near-Sight reducing name tag range by 10m, and Frail which makes you take 50% more damage and other things like that. And they should always grant less points than the cost of their advantage counter.

The numbers i used as examples might seem high but i think thats the point, these should be used to jump start a persons preferred playstyle if they are willing to take some downsides with it. Let them start with 0 or 1 Advantage point and let them get a max of 3 or 5 advantages but they have to take a bunch of small disadvantages or a few big ones, which ever they see more fit to do. If the crafters can jumpstart like 50% of their progression training with advantages, they can start pumping out semi decent gear right at the start. If the harvesters can jumpstart 50% of a specific harvesting (like ores) they can actually work on getting better materials early on and not be stuck getting only whites and only able to effectively mine rank 4 and lower nodes. If the fighter is willing to take a bunch of disadvantages to crafting and stuff (and we know the fighters will) they can boost their HP or Damage or Healing or other stats that are preferred for their class/playstyle and become a more competitive fighter.

 

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I guess those numbers on crafting/gathering/pvping would mess with the overallnumbers and break the actual system. i see your idea and point, but i guess that is something that takes really a long consideration, or a short read on d&d rulebooks ;)

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2 hours ago, Surelia said:

I guess those numbers on crafting/gathering/pvping would mess with the overallnumbers and break the actual system. i see your idea and point, but i guess that is something that takes really a long consideration, or a short read on d&d rulebooks ;)

Obviously they'd have to pull some stats out of other places, such as skill training. Even an extra 10 assembly and 10 experimentation would make a big difference.

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They could give negative stats on passive trees aswell, like wood working tree may have a skill +5 woodworking -3 Blacksmithing.

Would make it so you wernt able to master all crafting tree due to negatives on all passive to other trees.

Would probaly want some costly way to reset the passive tree and retain the points incase somone changes there mind later on but i think it should be fine.
 


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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I've been asking about it for years and it still seems to be in limbo. They want to do it but looking at 5.110, they have a lot of current and upcoming things that are going to take a lot of resources to implement properly.

To me, this is could be one of the best parts of character creation and customization. Sure talents, passive, disciplines, and gear allow us to tailor things, but they all take time. There isn't much immediate choice going on beyond race/class and whatever minor visual options we have.

Spending that initial time to make a character our own can hook people in. "Oh cool, look at all this stuff I can do, can't wait to see what happens when actually playing the game."

Definitely tricky, but like everything else, they could make a basic first draft and see where it goes. Keep the options/numbers reasonable and it shouldn't break the game. Since there are caps in place, not like someone can some how get 10 billion health or anything.

I do like the idea of using Adv/Disadv to make sort of boosted characters before passive training kicks in enough with +craft/harvest, but then when players have other means, their new characters would not use such options (necros stay busy). 

However, it likely would need to be role separated. A fighter taking -50 Blacksmith isn't really taking a disadvantage. More like +150 AP then -5% resists or something like that. For crafting could be +50 Woodworking -75 All other crafting. Or +5 Blacksmith Experimentation -5 to Blacksmith Assembly. Every choice should have some meaning. 

Also could make use of all the non-combat/harvest/craft stats like Range, Run Speed, Stealth Speed, Mount Speed, Food Consumption Rate, Perception, Far Sight, etc. These can change how a character plays without making them too strong/weak directly.

Likely will happen eventually, but hopefully not too far after launch (if that long) and not just basic stats (+50 INT for -50 CON).

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If this system ends up just being boring +base stat for -base stat I will be so sad. They have so many stats to choose from and frankly the system shouldn't be about boosting a character stat wise early. It should be about tailoring your character to a unique playstyle through interesting options. Not just straight up stat boosts imo. 

Personally I think the time for this to have been here is long overdue. And the game desperately needs the customization. I've done lots of math and see how few actual choices you have, which is common for a heavy theorycrafter. But even people who just check out the system for a few weeks can see how few choices there actually are, that's a problem

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I would like to see disciplines have DISADVANTAGES

  • upgrade to plate -3% run speed
  • Arcane Archer - 5% melee damage
  • Blade master +5% ranged damage taken

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15 hours ago, Surelia said:

I guess those numbers on crafting/gathering/pvping would mess with the overallnumbers and break the actual system. i see your idea and point, but i guess that is something that takes really a long consideration, or a short read on d&d rulebooks ;)

Yea the numbers i used would definitely probably break it, but my thought process was more along the lines of having enough to be semi viable from the start. i just dont know what that exact number would be for those so i overshot it to make the point.

1 hour ago, Jjusticar said:

Personally I think the time for this to have been here is long overdue. And the game desperately needs the customization. 

Same, that why i wanted to bring it up. Especially with the passive changes, cause from the outside looking in, to me it seems like it could be an easy addition to the game since they could just use the same framework for the permanent passives. Its probably not that simple but it feels like the foundation is there.

Ive felt like ive been in a rut since basically shortly after 5.8 really cause ive been playing since hunger dome, i know which classes i like to play and which are boring to me, and i dont really care about playing what is and isnt in the current meta. And every wipe when i remake the same Champion, Duelist, Slayer, and Paladin and do the exact same things on each cause the progression is so linear it feels meh. Theres no experimentation aside from maybe changing my focus from a STR based Champion to a CON based one to see how a tankyer version plays and changing a few disciplines to go with the style i like (Destroyer for STR build vs Rune Caster for Tanky build and things like that).

 

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Just now, ShadowwBoi13 said:

Yea the numbers i used would definitely probably break it, but my thought process was more along the lines of having enough to be semi viable from the start. i just dont know what that exact number would be for those so i overshot it to make the point.

Same, that why i wanted to bring it up. Especially with the passive changes, cause from the outside looking in, to me it seems like it could be an easy addition to the game since they could just use the same framework for the permanent passives. Its probably not that simple but it feels like the foundation is there.

Ive felt like ive been in a rut since basically shortly after 5.8 really cause ive been playing since hunger dome, i know which classes i like to play and which are boring to me, and i dont really care about playing what is and isnt in the current meta. And every wipe when i remake the same Champion, Duelist, Slayer, and Paladin and do the exact same things on each cause the progression is so linear it feels meh. Theres no experimentation aside from maybe changing my focus from a STR based Champion to a CON based one to see how a tankyer version plays and changing a few disciplines to go with the style i like (Destroyer for STR build vs Rune Caster for Tanky build and things like that).

 

It interacts too much with the existing system atm, buff startervessels would be the way easier thing as it won´t mess with the system

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Posted (edited)

Probably still on hold for the same reason more esoteric potions are on hold.

Last time we had a long stream about alchemy the reasoning was pretty clear, the baseline of the system needs to be stable before more layers are built on top of it as each knob makes it harder to balance.

Currently we still don't have final versions of the talent trees, we're on a fresh first pass of racial stats, and the way passives work was just entirely upended.

They're still tweaking coefficients in things that exist, so adding new complications to that balancing act isn't a great move.

I also question the utility of the advantages/disadvantages setup now that we have talent trees, as talent trees can do 100% of what that system would do anyway simply by including more nodes and if necessary more points. There's also the question of necromancy, which already includes forms of customization slots with optional components.

Rather than a whole extra menu, it seems like it would make a lot more sense to create a larger variety of necromancy components and expand skill trees as those systems already control the starting state and progression of individual characters.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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On 4/5/2020 at 11:33 PM, veeshan said:

They could give negative stats on passive trees aswell, like wood working tree may have a skill +5 woodworking -3 Blacksmithing.

Would make it so you wernt able to master all crafting tree due to negatives on all passive to other trees.

Would probaly want some costly way to reset the passive tree and retain the points incase somone changes there mind later on but i think it should be fine.
 

There's no practical way to limit people to a single crafting profession. They'll just use multiple accounts.

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