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A Global Passive Training Timer


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ACE have thus far claimed they would account for new players joining after launch through a catch-up mechanic of Tomes. This system will be a messy inclusion into the economy that will likely drive new players away within a week or two.

Also, needing to manage my own passive training points accumulation is tedious at best and rage-inducing at worst. It is in no way fun.

What I propose is a Global Passive Training Timer that calculates the amount of points that every single account in the game has.

So, if I join the game a week/month/year after everyone, or have a significant life event that disrupts my ability to manage my passive training, I am unpunished. I also do not need to remember to change sub-trees at the maximally efficient time.

Also, add real-money purchase respecs, that refund all spent points.

Edited by McTan
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3 hours ago, McTan said:

ACE have thus far claimed they would account for new players joining after launch through a catch-up mechanic of Tomes. This system will be a messy inclusion into the economy that will likely drive new players away within a week or two.

Also, needing to manage my own passive training points accumulation is tedious at best and rage-inducing at worst. It is in no way fun.

What I propose is a Global Passive Training Timer that calculates the amount of points that every single account in the game has.

So, if I join the game a week/month/year after everyone, or have a significant life event that disrupts my ability to manage my passive training, I am unpunished. I also do not need to remember to change sub-trees at the maximally efficient time.

Also, add real-money purchase respecs, that refund all spent points.

Catering specifically to new players is a great way of turning away old players that might then not overly enjoy the game, since their long and hard earned work is worthless. If you get into the game at a late stage (I take it it will be a total wipe, no exceptions at launch) then that's your problem, not those players that has invested countless hours in the game.

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4 hours ago, McTan said:

ACE have thus far claimed they would account for new players joining after launch through a catch-up mechanic of Tomes. This system will be a messy inclusion into the economy that will likely drive new players away within a week or two.

I'm not sure why you say that, but Tomes may not be the way catch-up is done. Todd mentioned in one of the Q&As that they were also considering having in-game activities add to your skill points as a catch up mechanic.

I'm not a fan of the idea that players who join a year after launch are just granted 1 year's worth of skill points. 

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2 hours ago, Arkade said:

I'm not sure why you say that, but Tomes may not be the way catch-up is done. Todd mentioned in one of the Q&As that they were also considering having in-game activities add to your skill points as a catch up mechanic.

I'm not a fan of the idea that players who join a year after launch are just granted 1 year's worth of skill points. 

That's fair enough, but why not? Really what benefit does it give us, as day-one players, to have new joins not be on equal passive-training footing? 

It doesn't bother me, I'd rather that than have them feel so behind. Maybe it's a function of passive training being too significant an influence on character strength. Plus, they are behind on knowledge, gear, active levels, guilds, EKs, etc.

Edited by McTan
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3 hours ago, Angelhearth said:

Catering specifically to new players is a great way of turning away old players that might then not overly enjoy the game, since their long and hard earned work is worthless. If you get into the game at a late stage (I take it it will be a total wipe, no exceptions at launch) then that's your problem, not those players that has invested countless hours in the game.

It's not catering at all, it's simply allowing them to join the fray a bit quicker. I'd be very surprised if this turned off current/vet players, TBH. I am trying to play it through in my mind, but I can't sympathize much with the position "I started first, so stay behind me unless you can compensate-grind to catch-up" (which has major opportunity cost, for players trying to do so). Especially when passive training is in no way a reflection of investing hours into the game. In fact, the stated purpose is to allow people who cannot invest significant hours to not fall as far behind those who can.

Edited by McTan
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2 minutes ago, McTan said:

It's not catering at all, it's simply allowing them to join the fray a bit quicker. I'd be very surprised if this turned off current/vet players, TBH. I am trying to play it through in my mind, but I can't sympathize much with the position "I started first, so stay behind me unless you can compensate-grind to catch-up" (which has major opportunity cost, for players trying to do so). Especially when passive training is, in no way, a reflection of investing hours into the game. In fact, the stated purpose is to allow people who cannot invest significant hours to not fall as far behind those who can.

The problem is that at a certain point, all progression is reduced to the point of insignificance. Let's say it takes 60 days to fully train a crafting profession. So, 60 days after the game launches, anyone (whether they are a brand new player or just a vet who gets a new account) can buy the game and instantly be fully trained as a crafter. Even if they end up crafting their own gear, they can be max crafters within a couple days at most. That isn't good for the game. 

Blair posted this in the crafting thread last week:

Quote

The goals are;
To not destroy all the progression we have built for crafters,
make the crafters relevant early on,
in the process of making them relevant early, don't make the process so trivial the combantants bypass the need for crafters.

Your idea destroys all progression for crafters (and eventually harvesters and combatants as well) and makes the process so trivial that combatants will bypass the need for crafters.

And it does nothing to make crafters relevant at launch. The first crafters will still have to wait 60 days to get to max.

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Generally I am very negative to any special consideration of new players, if such considerations will make active players hard work less worth. If I have played this game for a year, and finally filled a second level passive, then I'm not in favor seeing a new player filling the same in a month, or, god forbid, less. That player should work just as hard as me to get the same reward. Anything else is what we call "sowing pillows under their armpits" in Norway.

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Just now, Angelhearth said:

Generally I am very negative to any special consideration of new players, if such considerations will make active players hard work less worth. If I have played this game for a year, and finally filled a second level passive, then I'm not in favor seeing a new player filling the same in a month, or, god forbid, less. That player should work just as hard as me to get the same reward. Anything else is what we call "sowing pillows under their armpits" in Norway.

Fair, but I just do not consider passive training something that is earned or active, and certainly not hard work.

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Just now, McTan said:

Fair, but I just do not consider passive training something that is earned or active, and certainly not hard work.

Of course it's hard work, it's god damned hard work, because it uses the most important resource you have in an MMO, time.

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8 minutes ago, Arkade said:

The problem is that at a certain point, all progression is reduced to the point of insignificance. Let's say it takes 60 days to fully train a crafting profession. So, 60 days after the game launches, anyone (whether they are a brand new player or just a vet who gets a new account) can buy the game and instantly be fully trained as a crafter. Even if they end up crafting their own gear, they can be max crafters within a couple days at most. That isn't good for the game. 

Blair posted this in the crafting thread last week:

Your idea destroys all progression for crafters (and eventually harvesters and combatants as well) and makes the process so trivial that combatants will bypass the need for crafters.

And it does nothing to make crafters relevant at launch. The first crafters will still have to wait 60 days to get to max.

That is very fair. I was really only thinking from a combat perspective, and that was my bad. I stand by the premise of the idea for combat, however, as well as a simpler version that eliminates the need to be actively watching my passive training. Maybe just an account-specific point basket, rather than any sort of categorization before spending the point (beyond combat, crafting, exploration).

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1 minute ago, Angelhearth said:

Of course it's hard work, it's god damned hard work, because it uses the most important resource you have in an MMO, time.

It does not use time, it happens alongside of time. I cannot lump passive training into the same logic as fighting, harvesting, crafting, or leveling, sorry.

Since it is not earned, it is not work, players do not deserve it, it simply happens to them.

Simply put, if you play 20 hours per day and I play 5 minutes per day, we will be in the same place when it comes to passive training. So, either I am incredibly good at passive training compared to you, or you are wrong.

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9 minutes ago, Angelhearth said:

Of course it's hard work, it's god damned hard work, because it uses the most important resource you have in an MMO, time.

It seems a bit much to call something that takes no effort "hard work." Sure, it takes time, but it doesn't use your time, because you are free to do anything you want with your time while it happens. Contrast that with a typical grind where you actually have to spend your time doing work on an activity.

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2 hours ago, McTan said:

It does not use time, it happens alongside of time. I cannot lump passive training into the same logic as fighting, harvesting, crafting, or leveling, sorry.

Since it is not earned, it is not work, players do not deserve it, it simply happens to them.

Simply put, if you play 20 hours per day and I play 5 minutes per day, we will be in the same place when it comes to passive training. So, either I am incredibly good at passive training compared to you, or you are wrong.

I'll stop discussing now, all I want to do is seriously swearing and cursing you for not understanding how important time is.

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