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What would make the assassin interesting..


Soulreaver
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The assassin has a lot of things that speaks against it.. presently.

Would some "stamina" draining (not a full drain but something that slowed stamina regeneration) make it a bit more interesting presently?  Be it on the 3rd LMB or build into the toxins…

Just a thought.

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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51 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

The assassin has a lot of things that speaks against it.. presently.

Would some "stamina" draining (not a full drain but something that slowed stamina regeneration) make it a bit more interesting presently?  Be it on the 3rd LMB or build into the toxins…

Just a thought.

 

That would certainly make Retaliate availability more of a problem, if paired with the Vandal that would make stun locking a thing.

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5 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

 

That would certainly make Retaliate availability more of a problem, if paired with the Vandal that would make stun locking a thing.

Not looking to make it so strong as to be a lock build, but something that would definately make you look at your stamina and be concerned.

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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IMO, ACE needs to have a long hard look at CC/retaliate/resolve with both large and small group combat in mind, and decide how they want the all of the CC and skirmish promotions to fit that picture.

Giving assassin a stam drain is probably a good place to start. I do like how resource pool attacks play out and wish we had more of them, but I fear that without looking at CC more broadly, it'd be a band-aid for a missing limb.

Edited by VaMei
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Give them an ability to drain stam as a pip replacement maybe?

Like "focus" to eat 80 stamina, for five seconds your next ability functions as if it spent five pips.

This means you can get pips on demand, but at the cost of being vulnerable to CC, since if you don't burn an ability in 5 secs you don't actually have the pips.

Good burst or utility, but risky.

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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I mean assassin is my favorite class but its so bad its crazy. 

0 dmg, 0 sustain, reliance on toxins that do 0dmg and last 1 second. Ulti vanish that doesent even have a second of invuln like fessors and duelists. And anti heal toxin locked behind passive skill tree and survivalist rune (bloodworm). One of the worst base stats at lvl30 and a kit that essentially has a long cd stun, positional backstab that does no dmg if not from behind and diffusion which does no dmg without basic toxin. 

The only thing they have is mobility with Disengage and dodges which is great but ultimately useless essb in the grand scheme of things. 

And i would live with all the flaws if they would increase the dmg so that it makes for a high risk high reward playstyle. Get in, burst, get out, but if u fail the burst part its gg. 

Essentially just give me the dmg and ill deal with the rest. 

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2 hours ago, Shadow_Disciple said:

I mean assassin is my favorite class but its so bad its crazy. 

0 dmg, 0 sustain, reliance on toxins that do 0dmg and last 1 second. Ulti vanish that doesent even have a second of invuln like fessors and duelists. And anti heal toxin locked behind passive skill tree and survivalist rune (bloodworm). One of the worst base stats at lvl30 and a kit that essentially has a long cd stun, positional backstab that does no dmg if not from behind and diffusion which does no dmg without basic toxin. 

The only thing they have is mobility with Disengage and dodges which is great but ultimately useless essb in the grand scheme of things. 

And i would live with all the flaws if they would increase the dmg so that it makes for a high risk high reward playstyle. Get in, burst, get out, but if u fail the burst part its gg. 

Essentially just give me the dmg and ill deal with the rest. 

Completely agree.  One more issue there is with the "restealth" mechanic after it's been changed is : Duration of the DoT on you +4 seconds before you enter stealth… 

There are several DoTs/Debuffs that last 25+ seconds.  Which rivals or even exceed the Debuff : Faerie Fire that is specifically suppose to prevent Stealth.  You don't even need that ability what so ever now.  Our Ulti wont save us here as we just get pulled out of stealth immidiately.  There is nothing in the Assassin toolkit that makes sense with the new stealth / in-combat mechanic.  Using our abilities : Spirit Dart for example takes us out of stealth, while the Duelist Go-For-Broke still keeps them in it.  I could keep ranting but would really love to hear what thoughts the Devs have on the path for the assassin.


@thomasblair

Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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make assassin a life leeching(minimum 30%) heal blocking(minimum 1.5k heal blocking) stamina draining class(all of it)

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The Toxin dmg is laughable...10per tick..even 50% leech would still suck.. Also in chat log some other attacks like autos count as poison dmg but you dont get leech on them..idk if its bugged or just janky..

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I really like the idea of being able to sap some ones Stam.. I never even thought of it as a possible way to fix some CC, or assassins.. +1 from me for the idea!

Xeilias - Through Strength of Arms, We Bring Peace

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I think it was a Knight thread by Brightdance that mentioned Melee beign able to top people from Dodgeing, or removing dodge pips... But what if they tied Dodge into Stam (and not just having Pips), and then allowed Melee to have a Stam drain on 3rd LMB or something? or even a "stops stam from regening", so you only get your 1 stam bar to use.. either for Dodging OR Retaliating.. IDK how this would work with Blocks..that uses stam too correct? Maybe blocking an active attack (lmb or ability) gives stam back? Could this help fix Melee, also helping assassins?

Xeilias - Through Strength of Arms, We Bring Peace

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Tying stam to dodge has been a discussion point for a long time but has never really gained any traction. Along with a broad review of CC/Retaliate & Resolve it could be a good thing. In isolation, I think it's another band-aid covering a larger problem while creating more. JTC expresses concerns that harvesters are too vulnerable to ganking now, imagine if they can't retaliate OR dodge because they've spent their stam beating on a rock. Then imagine a CC class with full stam continuously draining it. Game's over before it starts, when the original intent of retaliate & resolve was to prevent a stun-lock kill.

Edited by VaMei
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What about just tying a CD to Retaliate instead of it being tied to Stam? or even giving it a pip like dodges (or even have them share pips, and add a slightly larger pool), it would incrase mobility for sure (allowing you to dodge more in a row) but then you wouldn't be able to retaliate, on the other side, if your okay with very low mobility (or have other mobility abilities), you could have multiple Retaliates.. Just throwing out ideas..

Xeilias - Through Strength of Arms, We Bring Peace

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 5/9/2020 at 1:40 AM, Soulreaver said:

Completely agree.  One more issue there is with the "restealth" mechanic after it's been changed is : Duration of the DoT on you +4 seconds before you enter stealth… 

There are several DoTs/Debuffs that last 25+ seconds.  Which rivals or even exceed the Debuff : Faerie Fire that is specifically suppose to prevent Stealth.  You don't even need that ability what so ever now.  Our Ulti wont save us here as we just get pulled out of stealth immidiately.  There is nothing in the Assassin toolkit that makes sense with the new stealth / in-combat mechanic.  Using our abilities : Spirit Dart for example takes us out of stealth, while the Duelist Go-For-Broke still keeps them in it.  I could keep ranting but would really love to hear what thoughts the Devs have on the path for the assassin.


@thomasblair

When I rolled an assassin, I was surprised to find out that Spirit Dart could *only* be slotted on the stealth tray. Reading the description, I thought it was a skill that you were supposed to use mid-fight to restealth yourself so you can have another chance at your opener. The counterplay would be your opponent seeing the animation and damaging you or avoiding it.

But no. It's a stealth skill only. That's um. .. terrible. You can get close and apply fairly ineffective poison and hope your target gets so tired of your tactics that they kill themselves out of boredom.

If I have the element of surprise, you can be damn sure I'm not going to waste it tickling my target with 10 dps or even the slightly better nature toxin.

Edited by nihilsupernum
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On 6/10/2020 at 5:52 PM, nihilsupernum said:

When I rolled an assassin, I was surprised to find out that Spirit Dart could *only* be slotted on the stealth tray. Reading the description, I thought it was a skill that you were supposed to use mid-fight to restealth yourself so you can have another chance at your opener. The counterplay would be your opponent seeing the animation and damaging you or avoiding it.

But no. It's a stealth skill only. That's um. .. terrible. You can get close and apply fairly ineffective poison and hope your target gets so tired of your tactics that they kill themselves out of boredom.

If I have the element of surprise, you can be damn sure I'm not going to waste it tickling my target with 10 dps or even the slightly better nature toxin.

and why wouldnt you apply that posion so that u can start doing Diffusion burst asap..blackguard isnt even the "rougish spec"...play more like a bruiser with lifeleech.

 

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Cause spirit dart - diffusion is actually less damage than backstab - as Backstab also does a duo pip build.

The near instant stun / in the zone or Black mask will ultimately 9/10 get that toxin u want up before u go for diffusion.

 

Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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