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Thundercat7

Spend an evening making a weapon!

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Long time listener, first time caller. Having played Shadowbane, I've been a backer for over two years. However, I have been waiting for the game to mature before playing, so when I got my email to join Phase Two of the Testing, I figured that it might be time to circle back to have a look.

I knew going in that Test would have some imbalances, bugs, whatever. What I found was that the same poorly made dergse crafting system is still in place after two years. I don't even want to be a master crafter. I just want to make basic gear/items to be self sufficient. Just about every part of the crafting system makes me want to Alt F4. It's nowhere near intuitive and I spent at least an hour searching for relevant info to help me get started. It is unnecessarily complex at every turn. Far too time consuming. Anyone enjoy making bandages? 

This system needs serious work. I don't even know where to begin. All I know is that I want no part of it.
 

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They introduced Wartribes loot that drops off the humanoid NPCs in the game.  It drops gear that's (currently) better than what you can get with crafted items, so there you go!  No need to craft when the dropped loot is better anyways.


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17 minutes ago, Thundercat7 said:

I just want to make basic gear/items to be self sufficient.
 

There’s your problem right there. The system is not designed for you to be self-sufficient. You can make pretty much everything as long as you have the right discipline, but you’re better off buying from crafters if that’s your attitude towards crafting


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, coolster50 said:

There’s your problem right there. The system is not designed for you to be self-sufficient. You can make pretty much everything as long as you have the right discipline, but you’re better off buying from crafters if that’s your attitude towards crafting

I think there's a whole continent of middle ground between where we could be and where they currently are. If you want this game to serve a niche population, you have it. If you want this game to support thousands of people looking to have fun, we're nowhere near that currently.

Edited by Thundercat7

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I'm curious why you are trying to craft your own weapon at this stage instead of just farming wartribes for one.


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1 hour ago, Thundercat7 said:

I think there's a whole continent of middle ground between where we could be and where they currently are. If you want this game to serve a niche population, you have it. If you want this game to support thousands of people looking to have fun, we're nowhere near that currently.

Full pvp with full loot ?
It's a niche game

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1 hour ago, Thundercat7 said:

I think there's a whole continent of middle ground between where we could be and where they currently are. If you want this game to serve a niche population, you have it. If you want this game to support thousands of people looking to have fun, we're nowhere near that currently.

You're making the assumption that a majority of people agree with your opinion, but I don't think that's the case. 

If you aren't interested in becoming a master crafter, then you aren't the person this system was made for. 

 

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Posted (edited)

This is Alpha testing.....just a few weeks ago is was PRE Alpha testing. When the game goes live crafting will be the only way to make items. Right now they have to let the testing base have a way to get weapons and armor to test with. When the time comes they will turn off weapon and item drops off and YOU the craftier will have to supply the hordes. 

Edited by Kyranleskil

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1 hour ago, Aedius said:

Full pvp with full loot ?
It's a niche game

PvP is what most of us are here for and will also be why the majority of new blood will sign up. Thank you for pointing that out. 

On the flipside, just numbers, but ACE has had between 30-40mil in funding, right? 

If this is going to remain a VERY niche game, then those numbers aren't going to add up. 

The crafting system can be robust AND enjoyable/intuitive at the same time. 

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26 minutes ago, Kyranleskil said:

When the game goes live crafting will be the only way to make items. Right now they have to let the testing base have a way to get weapons and armor to test with

I don't think this is true.  I don't believe equipment drops will go away even after game goes live.  I remember the conversation leading up to the addition of equipment drops and I don't believe it was implemented as merely a "temporary" solution for prior launch game....

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Granted man, I think a lot of folks heavily invested in the crafting side of this game will agree that is can be tedious and the passive training gating on it is problematic, etc.

But I don't think many will be cool with a change in the system that makes it more like World of Warcraft where it is effectively a solo activity that is like a hobby.

I believe ACE is trying to make crafting something that you have to be purposefully investing time into and other players recognize who is good at it and who is not.

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4 hours ago, Aedius said:

Full pvp with full loot ?
It's a niche game

Full loot my @zz. ACE removed that ability and I expect non-lootable crafting bag will be added soon as was indicated in a Q&A stream a couple months back. Add to that banking options.... Meh.

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The codependency is a bit much even if you are a master of say metal armor you still need other items from others to make what you are an expert at.   Forcing annoying  finding/trading that part you need to make what you want is a massive time waster.  There are a ton of gear slots you are going to need to trade/buy to get filled anyway no need to add another level of punishment by requiring 2 even 3 different crafting experts to make one item.  There is plenty of codependency already the added.  Otherwise I don’t have a problem with needing others to gear up with, would just like to be able to make one item myself.

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6 hours ago, Kyranleskil said:

This is Alpha testing.....just a few weeks ago is was PRE Alpha testing. When the game goes live crafting will be the only way to make items. Right now they have to let the testing base have a way to get weapons and armor to test with. When the time comes they will turn off weapon and item drops off and YOU the craftier will have to supply the hordes. 

tribes wont stop dropping weapons

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8 hours ago, Kyranleskil said:

This is Alpha testing.....just a few weeks ago is was PRE Alpha testing. When the game goes live crafting will be the only way to make items. Right now they have to let the testing base have a way to get weapons and armor to test with. When the time comes they will turn off weapon and item drops off and YOU the craftier will have to supply the hordes. 

nah bro, we playing the same game?


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11 hours ago, Staff said:

nah bro, we playing the same game?

When the game releases there will be no weapons, only diplomacy.

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21 hours ago, Kyranleskil said:

This is Alpha testing.....just a few weeks ago is was PRE Alpha testing. When the game goes live crafting will be the only way to make items. Right now they have to let the testing base have a way to get weapons and armor to test with. When the time comes they will turn off weapon and item drops off and YOU the craftier will have to supply the hordes. 

This is just wrong. 

They are not going to "turn off" war tribes gear. The whole point of war tribes gear is so a new player can get to a minimum viable baseline in under 3 hours and get into the PvP.  

Being a crafter is the "long game", and will take a long time to realize success in. Once that has been realized, crafters will have better things to sell than the war tribes gear, but war tribes gear is meant to feel like you can contribute within hours of joining a campaign. 

It will always be an avenue for getting geared up quickly, that is not going away.

 

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16 hours ago, Xomox said:

The codependency is a bit much even if you are a master of say metal armor you still need other items from others to make what you are an expert at.   Forcing annoying  finding/trading that part you need to make what you want is a massive time waster.  There are a ton of gear slots you are going to need to trade/buy to get filled anyway no need to add another level of punishment by requiring 2 even 3 different crafting experts to make one item.  There is plenty of codependency already the added.  Otherwise I don’t have a problem with needing others to gear up with, would just like to be able to make one item myself.

 

It used to be far more extreme, when even making things like parchment took passive training unlocks. I made a good amount of gold just making leather padding for armor back in the day. 

 At least now that dependency is more optional than required. You "can" make a white vessel, and with the correct runes and no training, make pretty much every dependency item, albeit poorly. 

 

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5 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

It used to be far more extreme, when even making things like parchment took passive training unlocks. I made a good amount of gold just making leather padding for armor back in the day. 

 At least now that dependency is more optional than required. You "can" make a white vessel, and with the correct runes and no training, make pretty much every dependency item, albeit poorly. 

 

Aye not as bad as it was last time I tested, still I'm really concerned with the population not being a massive MMO numbers (and that fine) that this dependency on others to make the items you are a master at making is going to really take away from the fun of the game.   Its plenty painful in high populations MMO's getting what you need trading with other players.    It actually has me leaning very heavy towards classes that have less gear requirments/slots.

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