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Archdruid quality of life suggestions


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Hey, new player here. After levelling multiple classes, I'm pretty sure Archdruid *should* be the class I play.

In theory it has everything I want from a class - some damage, some support, an interesting resource mechanic and swaps between multiple skill sets (trays).

... but there are some major issues keeping me from liking it and I feel like they could be fixed pretty easily. I'll list them off here with the disclaimer that I am pretty new to the game, so maybe I'm just doing it wrong and need more practice. Please do let me know if this is the case.

 

  1.  Tray swapping is not an interrupt - If I need to get into Life/Death quickly, I often can't do it for up to 2 full seconds due to being locked into an animation. The orb placement autoattack in Life Tray is especially bad for this, but most of Arch's skills have this issue to some degree. I'm used to other MMOs where similar skill/tray swaps are instant and will cancel the current action. Crowfall is a pretty fast game and situations change in milliseconds, so being locked into a 2-second orb placement is infuriating. I feel this is critical for a class that does self-damage if you can't get into the right tray at the right time. I often end up damaging myself because I underestimate just how long the orb placements take. Switching from Death to Life is less painful because I'm generally not taking damage, but I'm still sitting there mashing the button wishing it would swap when I tell it to swap and not 1s later when it gets around to finishing the skill animation. I also feel like tray swaps ought to work while CCed. This might be a deliberate decision to allow trapping the druid in life or death, but it feels jarring to me as a player not being able to swap between my skill bars.
  2. Unnecessary clicking - It'd be nice to be able to hold down left click in life tray and continually place orbs rather than click for each one individually. If this could be done while keeping the ground target indicator, it'd be perfect. In its current state, I know if I keep playing druid my wrists are going to hate me. Placing orbs is a pretty large part of the class, and I'd prefer not to risk RSI for a few hundred points of healing and some essence.
  3. Effectiveness - I'll compare to Frostweaver, since that is the other class I'm most familiar with (both Frostguard and Icecaller). Druid feels like a monumental amount of effort in return for not a lot of results. On Frostweaver, I can quickly and flexibly drop a lot of CC, damage, healing, protection, etc all while mixing in some autoattacks. With Druid, I feel like I'm waiting forever for some animation or other to complete and by the time it does, the moment has passed and the enemies are already dead, already on top of me, or have moved out of range. 
  4. Long cooldowns - again, with Frostweaver, I can use the skills I need whenever I need them provided I have the ice or mana. With Druid, I often feel like I'm waiting for the skills I need to come back off cooldown. This shouldn't be a problem for a class that has lots of bar space with tray swapping, but I'm just not sure what other skills I can put in to cover that weakness. Are there some disciplines people would recommend for low cooldown skills to fill that gap? Should I just be making more orbs? Archdruid to me feels like it's missing something. I need more skills to press or I need the skills I have to be off cooldown faster. In its current state, it doesn't flow like Frostweaver does.

Please let me know what you think. I really want to like this class, but I just can't right now.

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37 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

Hey, new player here. After levelling multiple classes, I'm pretty sure Archdruid *should* be the class I play.

In theory it has everything I want from a class - some damage, some support, an interesting resource mechanic and swaps between multiple skill sets (trays).

... but there are some major issues keeping me from liking it and I feel like they could be fixed pretty easily. I'll list them off here with the disclaimer that I am pretty new to the game, so maybe I'm just doing it wrong and need more practice. Please do let me know if this is the case.

 

  1.  Tray swapping is not an interrupt - If I need to get into Life/Death quickly, I often can't do it for up to 2 full seconds due to being locked into an animation. The orb placement autoattack in Life Tray is especially bad for this, but most of Arch's skills have this issue to some degree. I'm used to other MMOs where similar skill/tray swaps are instant and will cancel the current action. Crowfall is a pretty fast game and situations change in milliseconds, so being locked into a 2-second orb placement is infuriating. I feel this is critical for a class that does self-damage if you can't get into the right tray at the right time. I often end up damaging myself because I underestimate just how long the orb placements take. Switching from Death to Life is less painful because I'm generally not taking damage, but I'm still sitting there mashing the button wishing it would swap when I tell it to swap and not 1s later when it gets around to finishing the skill animation. I also feel like tray swaps ought to work while CCed. This might be a deliberate decision to allow trapping the druid in life or death, but it feels jarring to me as a player not being able to swap between my skill bars.
  2. Unnecessary clicking - It'd be nice to be able to hold down left click in life tray and continually place orbs rather than click for each one individually. If this could be done while keeping the ground target indicator, it'd be perfect. In its current state, I know if I keep playing druid my wrists are going to hate me. Placing orbs is a pretty large part of the class, and I'd prefer not to risk RSI for a few hundred points of healing and some essence.
  3. Effectiveness - I'll compare to Frostweaver, since that is the other class I'm most familiar with (both Frostguard and Icecaller). Druid feels like a monumental amount of effort in return for not a lot of results. On Frostweaver, I can quickly and flexibly drop a lot of CC, damage, healing, protection, etc all while mixing in some autoattacks. With Druid, I feel like I'm waiting forever for some animation or other to complete and by the time it does, the moment has passed and the enemies are already dead, already on top of me, or have moved out of range. 
  4. Long cooldowns - again, with Frostweaver, I can use the skills I need whenever I need them provided I have the ice or mana. With Druid, I often feel like I'm waiting for the skills I need to come back off cooldown. This shouldn't be a problem for a class that has lots of bar space with tray swapping, but I'm just not sure what other skills I can put in to cover that weakness. Are there some disciplines people would recommend for low cooldown skills to fill that gap? Should I just be making more orbs? Archdruid to me feels like it's missing something. I need more skills to press or I need the skills I have to be off cooldown faster. In its current state, it doesn't flow like Frostweaver does.

Please let me know what you think. I really want to like this class, but I just can't right now.

I played archdruid since day 1 of its release. I dont see a reason to continue playing it with FW. If I were you I'd play FW. That's my help to you :)

 

check out my youtube channel for archdruid gameplay if you want (shameless plug)

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I'd love to see the Archdruid be more about actually using both trays and utilizing the capstone talent (maybe it needs to be buffed some?) rather than just making huge bombs. At least that's what the concept feels like.

Some potential changes I'd make

- Set the maximum about of Blight bomb orbs to 5. I think huge bombs 1 shotting people is just dumb

- Remove Blight Cooldown

- Make Blight Flash Castable

- Double the power of the capstone talent

I feel like these changes might actually get the Arch Druid closer to the original vision than what we have now. Hard to say if my proposed changes would make them super OP or still crap as Arch Druid is one of the hardest promotions to play if you're actually playing both trays.

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Just thought I'd add this as an example of how Archdruid feels really ineffective compared to Frostweaver. Here's a clip of both healing ~4k health.

The Archdruid takes 40 seconds to drop enough orbs to heal that much. The Icecaller only takes 6 seconds to drop enough cool ice to heal almost twice that. Archdruid 'spends' all its resource to get 4k health. Icecaller doesn't even eat into its mana bar - just uses 4 banked ice.

Now, you might argue that Icecaller is a support promotion and Archdruid is a hybrid, but keep in mind here I built my Icecaller as full INT and it's wearing no gear. Meanwhile, I built my Archdruid with a lot (most?) of its points in SPR and only a few in INT.

 

 

Edited by nihilsupernum
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Be aware that FW is the latest class. It is as such the best class in more ways than one. It is the in plain terms the best ACE could do. The fact it seems it was designed to do everything doesnt help either.

We need to buff all classes to that level.

Stats dont matter unless you dumping hundreds of it too. I hate that btw. It seems in white you might not even bother... (I know, I know upgrade your vessel yada yada Will do, still sucks)

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43 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Be aware that FW is the latest class. It is as such the best class in more ways than one. It is the in plain terms the best ACE could do. The fact it seems it was designed to do everything doesnt help either.

We need to buff all classes to that level.

Stats dont matter unless you dumping hundreds of it too. I hate that btw. It seems in white you might not even bother... (I know, I know upgrade your vessel yada yada Will do, still sucks)

FW is really nice! It flows well and it's fun to play. I think Druid could get there too with lower cooldowns, faster animations, and the ability to swap between Life and Death trays instantly. A couple skills could use a tweak and not root you in place (Eg. Ult, Gaea's Wail).

From a balance perspective, it seems like Archdruid would need its skills to do basically double or maybe even triple the healing or damage they currently do. I know you *can* potentially blight bomb an enemy group with a lot of preparation if you manage to set up a stack of orbs under them. Right now though, FW can do that too, except much faster and on basically no cooldown. Druid takes like .. what, 4 seconds per 3 orbs and then an additional 2-3s to swap to Death and Blight them.

6 hours ago, ZYBAK said:

I'd love to see the Archdruid be more about actually using both trays and utilizing the capstone talent (maybe it needs to be buffed some?) rather than just making huge bombs. At least that's what the concept feels like.

Some potential changes I'd make

- Set the maximum about of Blight bomb orbs to 5. I think huge bombs 1 shotting people is just dumb

- Remove Blight Cooldown

- Make Blight Flash Castable

- Double the power of the capstone talent

I feel like these changes might actually get the Arch Druid closer to the original vision than what we have now. Hard to say if my proposed changes would make them super OP or still crap as Arch Druid is one of the hardest promotions to play if you're actually playing both trays.

I think these are pretty good suggestions for Blight.

Edited by nihilsupernum
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Couple more annoyances:

  1. Durability loss while managing essence: Kind of a minor issue, but it is annoying. I find myself needing to dump extra essence, or gain extra essence fairly often out of combat, depending on what I want to do. As far as I know, there's no way to do this without losing gear durability. Seems like kind of a waste.
  2. Forced to play ungrouped: Since Archdruid wants to be landing bombs with its orbs, it is easiest to play out of group so allies don't accidentally pick up orbs. To improve Archdruid support without taking away its bombing ability, would it be possible to have the green orbs leave behind a purple orb once they've been picked up? This purple orb could be blighted but would no longer heal.
Edited by nihilsupernum
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5 hours ago, Extintor said:

If they implement your second suggestion I think it will be kind of op. You put orbs that your group can use to heal up and you can still do damage with them.

They could implement that suggestion right now and Icecaller would still be better.

Archdruid orbs heal a single target for not much health. Icecaller stacks heal AoE and 5 of them can heal a team for most of their health (8k each player = ~40k total?) if they do it right. In the same time window, an Archdruid could put out like .. 1-2k healing? to a single target? That's nothing.

Icecaller stacks can be near-instantly converted into AoE burst damage (volatile), AoE pulsing damage + CC + burst + knockdown (frigid), AoE burst healing (refreshing), or picked up again to save resource if they need to be moved, or instantly renewed by changing them back to cooling ice for another round of healing. So Icecaller can already heal up and do damage and CC with the same skills, except better than Archdruid would be able to.

Archdruid orbs can't be recovered like ice can. They take longer to put down. They're consumed on use. They do less healing and only to a single target. About the *only* thing they have going for them is that you can spend ~30 seconds of a fight preparing an area to bomb in the hopes that the fight remains there or moves there long enough to get a big bomb off.

Edited by nihilsupernum
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I like @ZYBAK recommendation.  I spent a fair amount of time on an arch-druid in early 5.11 and with mobile fights the 3-5 bombs favoring the death tray was so close to being useful.  The GCDS and animations like you were stating @nihilsupernum make that much tray swapping ineffective.   Right now Arch-druid is just a one trick pony that fits into certain situations well, and all others poorly.  I really liked it as a beefier control mage with support elements.  The way forward to make it fill this slot that currently is just better with a FG is twofold.  Blight needs to be reworked to reward smaller bomb clusters and not punish you so harshly with the GCDS.  The other is utility, the bomb druid has bark skin and avatar that are both very good group spells, but you need to run alone to protect your orbs.     We need more "support" classes and I want more to supporting classes than just fire-hose healing like the clerics offer.  I would like to see the bomb druids top end damage dropped in favor of smaller blights and increased utility.    

-The Legion shall forever be reborn

 

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5 minutes ago, ConstantineX said:

I like @ZYBAK recommendation.  I spent a fair amount of time on an arch-druid in early 5.11 and with mobile fights the 3-5 bombs favoring the death tray was so close to being useful.  The GCDS and animations like you were stating @nihilsupernum make that much tray swapping ineffective.   Right now Arch-druid is just a one trick pony that fits into certain situations well, and all others poorly.  I really liked it as a beefier control mage with support elements.  The way forward to make it fill this slot that currently is just better with a FG is twofold.  Blight needs to be reworked to reward smaller bomb clusters and not punish you so harshly with the GCDS.  The other is utility, the bomb druid has bark skin and avatar that are both very good group spells, but you need to run alone to protect your orbs.     We need more "support" classes and I want more to supporting classes than just fire-hose healing like the clerics offer.  I would like to see the bomb druids top end damage dropped in favor of smaller blights and increased utility.    

Druid was great before the split. could heal and bomb. They broke it, I don't know if any of this would make it any better than any of the FW promos ... especially between frostguard and icecaller

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/9/2020 at 7:01 PM, ConstantineX said:

I like @ZYBAK recommendation.  I spent a fair amount of time on an arch-druid in early 5.11 and with mobile fights the 3-5 bombs favoring the death tray was so close to being useful.  The GCDS and animations like you were stating @nihilsupernum make that much tray swapping ineffective.   Right now Arch-druid is just a one trick pony that fits into certain situations well, and all others poorly.  I really liked it as a beefier control mage with support elements.  The way forward to make it fill this slot that currently is just better with a FG is twofold.  Blight needs to be reworked to reward smaller bomb clusters and not punish you so harshly with the GCDS.  The other is utility, the bomb druid has bark skin and avatar that are both very good group spells, but you need to run alone to protect your orbs.     We need more "support" classes and I want more to supporting classes than just fire-hose healing like the clerics offer.  I would like to see the bomb druids top end damage dropped in favor of smaller blights and increased utility.    

I gave it a lot of thought these last months, because I also spent I lot of time on the Archdruid, I I felt heartbroken with the coming of the FW. I think that I fare balancing would be to make the bombs ignore mitigation , like Holy damage. The Bombs are pretty hard to set up, they have low range(3m) and very costly for a team to have an archdruid taking a spot ( even if not in a group) because he could be brining somenthing more usefull for the group, Having them ignore all mitigation seem in my point of view a  good trade off, specially now that frostarmor soak up ALL the dammage the bombs do.

 

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59 minutes ago, Aurellius said:

I gave it a lot of thought these last months, because I also spent I lot of time on the Archdruid, I I felt heartbroken with the coming of the FW. I think that I fare balancing would be to make the bombs ignore mitigation , like Holy damage. The Bombs are pretty hard to set up, they have low range(3m) and very costly for a team to have an archdruid taking a spot ( even if not in a group) because he could be brining somenthing more usefull for the group, Having them ignore all mitigation seem in my point of view a  good trade off, specially now that frostarmor soak up ALL the dammage the bombs do.

 

Doesn't that just make it even more gimmicky though? It would just do its thing more effectively, but would still have all the problems you list. In a team game, I don't think a class is working correctly if it's forced to play out of group - especially when it's a class that comes with healing and group buffs.

That's why I think having Archdruid orbs change from green to purple after being consumed for healing would be a nice change. Then you could have an Archdruid in group doing its bombing thing while at the same time supporting its team (although, not as much as EK, because it'd be missing support power and other abilities).

Edited by nihilsupernum
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To be honest even right now the archdruis is one of the best supports in the game, he brings so much to the table in that regard that boosting him even a little in this aspect will make him imba.

I won't enter in details 9f the build because it cost me a lot of time to perfect, but I would just advice you to see blight as somenthing more than a simple bomb detonator

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9 minutes ago, Aurellius said:

To be honest even right now the archdruis is one of the best supports in the game, he brings so much to the table in that regard that boosting him even a little in this aspect will make him imba.

I won't enter in details 9f the build because it cost me a lot of time to perfect, but I would just advice you to see blight as somenthing more than a simple bomb detonator

As an aside, I really dislike this attitude among players in this game (have seen it quite a bit) - everyone hoarding information, afraid to share lest others learn their tricks. This is a very new game with a very small population. If something works well, people will find out and it will get around. You might as well do the game community a service and share what you know publicly. That way everyone can learn and new players won't feel so out of the loop.

.. but whatever.

In regards to Archdruid being one of the best supports, I just don't see how that can be true if it is forced to either compromise its bombing ability by being in-group and having its "bomb orbs" eaten by melee or random allies or compromise its support abilities by being out of group and only being able to bomb / debuff. Yes, you can use Blight to make Stormcallers better, or your own autoattacks more powerful, but I think that's more of an issue with Stormcaller/emitter being borderline OP than with Blight being particularly useful.

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1 hour ago, nihilsupernum said:

As an aside, I really dislike this attitude among players in this game (have seen it quite a bit) - everyone hoarding information, afraid to share lest others learn their tricks. This is a very new game with a very small population. If something works well, people will find out and it will get around. You might as well do the game community a service and share what you know publicly. That way everyone can learn and new players won't feel so out of the loop.

.. but whatever.

In regards to Archdruid being one of the best supports, I just don't see how that can be true if it is forced to either compromise its bombing ability by being in-group and having its "bomb orbs" eaten by melee or random allies or compromise its support abilities by being out of group and only being able to bomb / debuff. Yes, you can use Blight to make Stormcallers better, or your own autoattacks more powerful, but I think that's more of an issue with Stormcaller/emitter being borderline OP than with Blight being particularly useful.

Totally agree with you for the class basics but when it comes to somenthing that comes with 200+ hours exp with a class, I´m sorry but That s somenthing only shareable with the guild and Allies. That´s the principle of the game.

Edited by Aurellius
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