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Archiebunker82

Camelot Unchained Vs. Crowfall

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It's pretty simple choice for me overall if everything fleshes out like it is supposed to be.

 

 

1. Camelot Unchained has CC , This is huge for group vs group pvp, especially roaming pvp vs the zerg.

2. Camelot Unchained will have "speed classes" speed classes are one of the required reagents to roaming 8 man types of pvp, that made daoc so enjoyable by hardcore pvp'ers.

10. Someone compared how good crowfall looked.. was this a joke? CU is much more realistic looking.

 

CU isn't trying to hype their game right now. When it hits beta, you'll get to see it, they already had a succesful kickstarter, so i wouldn't call it "shaky" they raised over 2 million dollars.. if that's shaky, please sign me up!

 

My concerns with CU is that they won't fulfill what i want, which in terms of CC : i want long duration mez's etc.. and the speed class, eg.. everyone can run fast. If that happens, it'll be a clusterfk... But we are promised certain classes have speed only. So hopefully that sticks. I don't care if that means you sit and wait 10 mins for a "skald" or "bard" to log in, it's a requirement for roaming pvp

I have $250 in CU, and $425 invested in to this game, so I hope both are successful.

 

1) There is no indication that CF won't have CC (unless I missed that some where). CC should have an impact on the fight, but it shouldn't completely monopolize it like it does in most games (and did in DAOC).

 

2) In DAOC when people didn't have a speed class available, they usually didn't bother to roam. That's how important having a speed class was; it became a necessity.

 

3) Realistic games have a tendency to look extremely dated and crappy a few years in to their life cycle. I'm willing to bet that CF will look better than CU does 5 years after launch.

Edited by Helix

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It was 500, and no.. it was more like 20minutes! gesh!

you need to go back and check for early bird specials on Sapphire. They were going for 425. and had the exact same perks. If you spend 500, you can go back. cancel, and repledge the proper 425 and get the same perks. After that.. Please send me 30 of those saved 75$!!!!!

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They are 2 very different takes on world pvp.

 

CU:

Persistent world

Set factions - 3 way RvR based on historical mythology

Tab target

Trinity with each realm having exclusive classes and a specific crafting class

Sub model

 

CF:

Win condition and map reset with procedurally generated terrain

Campaigns with different rule sets - 3 way RvR, 5+ way RvR, no faction GvG, solo survival(?)

All realms have access to the same classes

Action combat

No healers

B2P + optional subscription that can be purchased for in-game assets

 

 

They both involve some form of voxel building and destruction, but CF has destructible terrain.

 

It seems like CF is farther along and went for KS funding a lot later whereas CU started from the ground up after crowd funding.

 

A lot will come down to how 'good' the action combat will be in CF. Tab target is ancient, but reliable.

 

The win condition and map reset is an entirely new concept in MMOs that will be interesting to compare to a more traditional persistant world pvp map.

 

As stated in the KS, CF is like a deck of cards that can be played in many different ways wereas CU is a more traditional MMO with player building and very limited PVE.

Edited by jacobin

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I have $250 in CU, and $425 invested in to this game, so I hope both are successful.

 

1) There is no indication that CF won't have CC (unless I missed that some where). CC should have an impact on the fight, but it shouldn't completely monopolize it like it does in most games (and did in DAOC).

 

2) In DAOC when people didn't have a speed class available, they usually didn't bother to roam. That's how important having a speed class was; it became a necessity.

 

3) Realistic games have a tendency to look extremely dated and crappy a few years in to their life cycle. I'm willing to bet that CF will look better than CU does 5 years after launch.

I am fine with your #2, why? Because if #2 doesn't exist, you have guild wars 2 with 50 man zergs flying around the map at full speed. There needs to be a way to limit speed of some people. namely the zerg.

 

I disagree about #3 as well. Right now the gameplay we have seen looks like vanilla wow

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I am a $225 backer for CU and I'm undecided on what level to support Crowfall.  I have supported Star Citizen, Kingdom Come, Novus Aeterno, and Albion Online to the tune of $1,000.  My invest-and-hope dollars are a bit thin right now.  I'm not much of an unrefined alpha game player so I'll probably eyeball a beta-level tier.  It will probably be well in to 2016 before we see some significant Crowfall game play and testing.  

 

As for the comments that involved Warhammer Online and Marc Jacobs.  I would like to point out that Paul Barnett and Jeff Hickman pulled a huge screw-job over Marc Jacobs.  Let's not for get the letter written by an anonymous former employee EA Louse.  The failure of Warhammer Online was not Marc Jacobs's fault and that MMO's failure is one of the many reasons why I am looking to Kickstarter funded games to service niche MMO gamers like myself.  

 

Here's a video just in case some of you need a reminder as to why publisher funded games are destructive and bad for the industry.  Make sure to have a vomit bag ready.

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I am fine with your #2, why? Because if #2 doesn't exist, you have guild wars 2 with 50 man zergs flying around the map at full speed. There needs to be a way to limit speed of some people. namely the zerg.

 

I disagree about #3 as well. Right now the gameplay we have seen looks like vanilla wow

Zerging was an issue in gw2 partly due to everyone having a speed buff, partly due to the accessibility of the map, but largely due to the size and placement of objectives. If the maps were significantly bigger, would zerging still exist? Absolutely, but by have a bigger map, and better positioning of objectives you'd at least give some breathing room for smaller groups to flourish.

 

If you pigeon-hole classes in to strict roles or put too much emphasis on certain classes you'll end up with a very stagnant meta.

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Zerging was an issue in gw2 partly due to everyone having a speed buff, partly due to the accessibility of the map, but largely due to the size and placement of objectives. If the maps were significantly bigger, would zerging still exist? Absolutely, but by have a bigger map, and better positioning of objectives you'd at least give some breathing room for smaller groups to flourish.

 

If you pigeon-hole classes in to strict roles or put too much emphasis on certain classes you'll end up with a very stagnant meta.

 

GW2 also allows dead players to sit there and wait for anybody to rez so multiple people can near insta-rez anybody who is fully dead making it nearly impossible to thin out a zerg's numerical advantage.

Edited by jacobin

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These Eternal kingdoms siege able? our just a player housing system for guilds to flaunt?

Right now no they are not, but they are thinking of putting in a poorly made socks version of it where both sides have to agree before hand.

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the devil is in the detail...er gameplay


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

694a6f04-03a1-4af3-8e11-ddd1baa87348.jpg

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CU will probably attract more traditional players.  NO voxel art style,  less crazy GW2 style run around combat,  more persistence in the world,  subs ect. ect.

 

CF will likely attract a younger crowd and modern gaming peeps.  It will attract a little of the old crowd but mostly younger.  I also feel it will be a jack of all trades master of none.  More of a soccer league than an MMO.   For many people this will not matter,  but for some it will eat at them a little.

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It's pretty simple choice for me overall if everything fleshes out like it is supposed to be.

 

 

1. Camelot Unchained has CC , This is huge for group vs group pvp, especially roaming pvp vs the zerg.

2. Camelot Unchained will have "speed classes" speed classes are one of the required reagents to roaming 8 man types of pvp, that made daoc so enjoyable by hardcore pvp'ers.

3. Slower old school combat, positionals etc..

4. ZONE WIDE KILL SPAM.. yep just like Daoc

5. Keep sieges, build your own homes, destroy someone elses.

6. Darkness fall's sequel "The depths"

7. Player bounty system.

8.  In house engine and from what i've seen... it's a lot better than some give it credit for. Andrew the programmer has done some insane things with it

9. Old school class balance, including healers who can target and heal their allies, because they enjoy being the best of the best healers, think to yourself, do you remember a good healer from a game you played 5-10 years ago? i bet you do ,. i can rattle off 3-4 amazing pvp healers.

 

and i'll stop at 10.

10. Someone compared how good crowfall looked.. was this a joke?  CU is much more realistic looking.

 

CU isn't trying to hype their game right now. When it hits beta, you'll get to see it, they already had a succesful kickstarter, so i wouldn't call it "shaky"  they raised over 2 million dollars.. if that's shaky, please sign me up!

 

My concerns with CU is that they won't fulfill what i want, which in terms of CC  :  i want long duration mez's etc.. and the speed class, eg.. everyone can run fast. If that happens, it'll be a clusterfk... But we are promised certain classes have speed only. So hopefully that sticks. I don't care if that means you sit and wait 10 mins for a "skald" or "bard" to log in, it's a requirement for roaming pvp

 

Basically DAoC 2? I believe MJ has claimed it isn't that, but that's what I'm seeing and what I like about it. Big issue I have was basically what CF is trying to avoid. How do you keep it going long term? That is pretty much the biggest issue I've had/seen with any PVP focused games and CF is one of the few if the only one trying to avoid this problem.

 

I loved Andred/Mordred but they grew stale. DAoC wasn't designed for FFA, but even then, the regular design wasn't built to last for years and years either, at least not without accepting it was a giant game of KOTH/CTF. CU looks to have some pretty nice "new" features, but I still see it running into the same problems.

 

Then again, if they can maintain with a fairly small population, could work out well. Just seems the guilds with enough skill to keep it going are also the same ones that typically grow bored and move on (you named quite a few in the Dregs thread). How do they make it friendly to vet and fresh blood over time is what I'm still waiting for. Unlike CF where campaigns allow for players/guilds to pop in and out without huge issue (assumption). While I wouldn't call CF a "lobby" game, it does benefit from the same sort of design as MOBA/FPS/RTS etc which are all hugely popular for this same reason, game is always fresh to some degree.

Edited by Allein

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Both of these games while being a proper pvp/rvr experience do things differently for Camelot Unchained and Crowfall it's perfect to have another game so similar to be pushing eachother to be the best games both can be. Elite Dangerous vs Star Citizen or DayZ vs H1Z1 these games can only benefit from having something so similar but different in many ways pushing them at every turn. Point is get them both one is $30 forever the other will be a subscription both shall be tons of fun for the time you spend and more blood for the blood god

Edited by Bionics

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LoL about CC..

You can push people.
And the footage show aoe with and some particles effects in the enemies. 
I bet we will have CC....

And ''buff bots''.

A support class without heavy healer is usually that.

And we know that the game will have combos no?

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When you come from a background of Sandbox titles like EVE Online, or WURM.  And you prefer depth, player generated content and real risk/reward mechanics.  I'd say you'd find Crowfall a much more enjoyable and appealing experience -if you are looking for the same, but in a more manageable dose, like a casual hardcore game... as weird as that sounds.  While on the other end of the spectrum, if you simply enjoy no nonsense PvP where you siege, take castles, fight a defined and set enemy faction and can do so yourself, by yourself or with friends without feeling any risks of loss and you want a casual friendly game you can simply come home from work, sit down and enjoy and have a background of enjoying games like Warhammer Online or Dark Age of Camelot, then Camelot Unchained will appeal to you more.
 
It comes simply down to what you personally enjoy, don't feel any obligation to loyalty to a developer, you owe them nothing, they owe you everything, you pay them after all.  Also you should play games you personally enjoy, not what your friends enjoy, not what your partner enjoys, not what your parents enjoy, not what other people tell you is good, but what you think is good and what you like.  To be anything else is to belittle yourself, make you stupid and only adds to and perpetuates the "consumer" view of customers which undermines creativity and risks in the industry in faviour of safe bets to make money - which results in new interesting experiences not being available to people.
 
If you like Crowfall, support Crowfall.  If you like Star Citizen, support Star Citizen, if you like Camelot Unchained, support Camelot Unchained, if you like Eternal Crusade, support Eternal Crusade, if you like Albion Online, support Albion Online and so on...
 
Comparing games and saying "this is better" or "that is better" is an antiquated and stupid thing to waste time on which squarely belongs in the annuals of the past when we far less variety and far less to pick and choose from, where there really were defined examples of a better game to pick from, or heaven forbid we will see a return of the mid 2000s and the "World of Warcraft Clone" accusations and garbage.  It's playground immaturity on the level of argument that one console is better than another...
 
It took the industry this long to get to the stage where developers are either realizing that CCP was doing it the right way all along, or brake free of their obligations to publishers and being able to have full control over the nature of their own IP.  Let us not reverse that long needed freedom for creativity.
 
Play what you enjoy.  
 
:)
 

And i would of agreed with you, until star wars galaxies.
 
 
See?
 
Koster and Walton blame sony pushing them to release on SW:G which wasn't ready.
 
And Jacobs blames EA for pushing them to release warhammer and cut the 3rd faction.
 
So i guess you just to choose to believe koster and walton but not Jacobs?
 
I am not a fan boy of either, i have 150 invested in this game and 180 into CU.  Let the chips fall where they may


The AAA market and big publishers in general stifle and twist making games into a practice of making money, right down to even the design process.  Tech schools who teach game design "mix in" production and declare it design - production is not design, despite how those idiots who claim they know what their talking about say, I don't care what industry experience they have.  Their minds are warped and their dreams are shattered all in the name of simply "getting by" and "making do".  To be honest I'd rather work at a fast food restraint so I'd have the freedom to make a game the way I want to, in my own time and by my own design philosophy.  To hell with people who control you with a pay check, it's conditioned living, to hell with that - it's next to slavery.

 

"If you build it they will come"  - if you create something that is awesome and fantastic, people will want to play it, people will pay for it and you'll get your money's worth in time and effort so you can get by and it becomes you job.  Treating video games in the same realm as producing a product for the mass market such as a toy is wrong... it's not a toy, it's a craft, like art.

Edited by Synast

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Now in GLORIOUS 'HDvisioning60fpsblahg'


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