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Wrain

UPDATED REVIEW..where are we??? Not far.. and its sad. :(

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8 minutes ago, ZYBAK said:

Honestly I really don't think the character customization is THAT bad. It's just that there's a handful of dominant major and minor disciplines that dominate at the moment. 

If they were better balanced we'd see a lot more variety. 

That's definitely part of it but everything is still very much on rails. Stats and talents are boring.

No way to really change the way a class plays.

Not a ton of room for innovation.

There is no rock paper scissors.

No way to punch up.

Group size makes support roles a liability.

 


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16 minutes ago, jtoddcoleman said:

Hey folks,

So I'm trying to distill this thread down to some basic points that I can turn into action plans to address. 

From a high level, it sounds like the two biggest concerns for the ex-SB folks are:

1. Character customization is extremely linear, especially compared to SB, and

2. The SB=style siege handshake mechanic would be much preferred over predetermined time windows.

Is this an accurate summary?

Thanks,

Todd

 

Several people I've talked to see these two things as high on their wishlist for where Crowfall should be going.  I count myself among them.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, jtoddcoleman said:

Hey folks,

So I'm trying to distill this thread down to some basic points that I can turn into action plans to address. 

From a high level, it sounds like the two biggest concerns for the ex-SB folks are:

1. Character customization is extremely linear, especially compared to SB, and

2. The SB=style siege handshake mechanic would be much preferred over predetermined time windows.

Is this an accurate summary?

Thanks,

Todd

 

Both of these things would be amazing. Yes and yes.

A focus on Handshakes first though...

Edited by Ruq

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Hungry said:

Several people I've talked to see these two things as high on their wishlist for where Crowfall should be going.  I count myself among them.

If we had SB level character creation and build depth I could look the other way on everything else I don't like and would pay a $50 a month subscription if required

Edited by Yoink

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4 minutes ago, Yoink said:

If we had SB level character creation and build depth I could look the other way on everything else I don't like and would pay a $50 a month subscription if required

well we still need custom keeps/minis with handshake mechanics, no timers, its either you win or lose

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3 minutes ago, yianni said:

well we still need custom keeps/minis with handshake mechanics, no timers, its either you win or lose

I would love that as well, but the character/build creation is my #1 thing.


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9 minutes ago, Hungry said:

Several people I've talked to see these two things as high on their wishlist for where Crowfall should be going.  I count myself among them.

I am definitely one of those people. To take it one step further, and I may be on an island on this one, I wish there was some kind of option or standalone server that mimicked SB in the open world/free building. Just open land, no rules or win conditions. Drop a ToL and defend your land. Presumably next to the best farming spots that everyone else wants. Maybe it's nostalgia or a dislike for DF, but I miss the simplicity of it all. We still had to grind but for a more PvP centric reason without needing to pick flowers. 

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Balancing doesn't purely mean continual nerfing just to even things out. I feel like you guys have the same philosophy in balance/implementation as my wife does with the A/C. It's on, or it's off. A broadsword is applied where a scalpel is needed.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Yoink said:

I would love that as well, but the character/build creation is my #1 thing.

i understand its a huge enjoyment, but so is creating your own keep from scratch and thats when we can actually call it home

when we lose a keep or fort right now i dont give a poorly made dergs... if its something we built from scratch and i lost it, well ill most likely care

Edited by yianni

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Quig said:

I am definitely one of those people. To take it one step further, and I may be on an island on this one, I wish there was some kind of option or standalone server that mimicked SB in the open world/free building. Just open land, no rules or win conditions. Drop a ToL and defend your land. Presumably next to the best farming spots that everyone else wants. Maybe it's nostalgia or a dislike for DF, but I miss the simplicity of it all. We still had to grind but for a more PvP centric reason without needing to pick flowers. 

I think I would still prefer a win condition, as the campaign system exists to try and help with server stagnation.  That being said, I'd love a 3-6 month long campaign focused solely on land ownership that works exactly what you are talking about.  And I don't mean Power and Wealth cards only in this world setting, but something like the Bloodstone Ruleset that was talked about, or the Last Guild Standing rules JTC talked about on the recent livestream, where your guild is eliminated if you lose your last holding.

 

I really like sandbox PVP games as an 'ecosystem' and you need that time for it to breathe and grow and evolve, imo.

Edited by Hungry

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2 minutes ago, Hungry said:

I think I would still prefer a win condition, as the campaign system exists to try and help with server stagnation.  That being said, I'd love a 3-6 month long campaign focused solely on land ownership that works exactly what you are talking about.  And I don't mean Power and Wealth cards only in this world setting, but something like the Bloodstone Ruleset that was talked about, or the Last Guild Standing rules JTC talked about on the recent livestream, where your guild is eliminated if you lose your last holding.

 

I really like sandbox PVP games as an 'ecosystem' and you need that time for it to breathe and grow and evolve, imo.

I missed the livestream. Last man standing sounds amazing. Politics and economy could still thrive in that scenario. And it would be a break from the norm, which is always nice. 

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Posted (edited)

More customization is dearly needed in this game. We need to be able to mess things up, and we need to be able have weird niche specs that work in their environment but are poor outside of it. We need less restrictions on players for the sake of safety. There are a lot of ways to accomplish this - I think disciplines should receive the first updated design pass but everything else deserves some love too.

Handshakes are a good idea. I think there are risks with them too that could be messy but siege schedules have only shown to create burnout and droughts in player activity. I'll be far more incentivized to login and check the siege schedule and engage in player politics to see if there is a bane going off somewhere or to get the inside scoop on plans.

This type of thing plus the inclusion of mines, specialty outposts, and glory objectives combined with the regular farming/logistical needs of harvesting will create a good content mix that isn't too on-rails. We want to play in a really good and varied sandbox - the more player driven the better.

Edited by galvia

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56 minutes ago, jtoddcoleman said:

Hey folks,

So I'm trying to distill this thread down to some basic points that I can turn into action plans to address. 

From a high level, it sounds like the two biggest concerns for the ex-SB folks are:

1. Character customization is extremely linear, especially compared to SB, and

2. The SB=style siege handshake mechanic would be much preferred over predetermined time windows.

Is this an accurate summary?

Thanks,

Todd

 

Yes please

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Posted (edited)

@jtoddcoleman

  1. Character customization is pretty similar to SB already, and to @ZYBAK's point in this thread, we need to balance the runes to make more of them viable, and remove the I must take this one for this character type (healer/tank/dps). For example all healers must have Field Surgeon because Aurora Emitter is too strong, and will wipe your entire group quickly if you dont have purge.
  2. I would agree the handshake system is preferable. Much of the discussions we've had as a community have included a long pro/cons list of that approach. Specifically one concern that rises to the surface most commonly is preventing exploiting the handshake system to force an unreasonable time-frame for a Siege. This is a hard one to solve for because you want a guild whose members work/play a slightly alternate shift than their opponents an opportunity to choose when they defend.
    • That said, I prefer the defending guild having the choice over the attackers. One solution to this maybe limiting the time-frame choices to one of 3-4 time windows based on population bell curve which hopefully would include even those slightly alternate player schedules, while not necessarily having to cater to the extremes on either side who probably should be maybe playing on another server with a different bell curve.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that Anti-zerg mechanics need to be a focus for the team to ensure versions of uncle bob and one team being able to take over large swaths of land without the natural check and balance of needing to defend the prior land is key. Since i know you like board games: I offer you the example of Risk - the most simple mechanic that helps in this game is, you are required to leave armies in the prior geography in order to consider it "owned" and you have to attack and spread our influence through contiguous paths; this gives the strategy game consequence of spreading too thin and requiring you defend what you take. Maybe there are "decay" mechanics and/or requirements of taking and holding nearby outposts are required before you can take a central point of power. (I think planetside did this relatively well for example)

Edited by Zenatos

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1 minute ago, Yoink said:

In what ways?

  1. You get to select a basic Class /Race - in SB this was with runes here its with a "wow" type character creation. Within the Class selection you can get talents to customize, that part is relatively linear, but has trees to select from, and they all feel pretty unique in style. Wish all three were viable.
    • I will say we need to get some visibility in the creation screen to how class and race influence stats
  2. You get to use some base abilities from Class Race and then you have to select "runes" or in this case "Disciplines" to get more customized abilities and give unique abilities. Example a bow knight.
  3. Minor disciplines offer additional customization, but in my humble opinion need to feel more impactful so they feel more important.

Risk of the system is being too complicated where 80-90% of the population can understand and participate in it and we min/maxers can optimize.

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1 hour ago, jtoddcoleman said:

Hey folks,

So I'm trying to distill this thread down to some basic points that I can turn into action plans to address. 

From a high level, it sounds like the two biggest concerns for the ex-SB folks are:

1. Character customization is extremely linear, especially compared to SB, and

2. The SB=style siege handshake mechanic would be much preferred over predetermined time windows.

Is this an accurate summary?

Thanks,

Todd

 

I didn't play SB, but I've been won over by the former SB players I've spoken to about the pros and cons of these items. So from a non-SB veteran - these sound like great points to devote time to.

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