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Vanguard quitting Crowfall .. For now


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We have decided to quit Crowfall for now.
We will most likely first be back when beta hits in hopes of it can cure our frustrations.
But lately it's been feeling like a chore to log in and play the game - and when a game starts to feel like a chore, it's time to do something else.

First off, for those who don't know me and our guild, I am Yumx, leader of Vanguard, I've been playing Crowfall almost non-stop since Jan. 2017, so 3,5 years by now.
Our guild Vanguard is one of the top EU guilds, we won the first 2 dregs on test, both the NA one and the EU one.
We also recently won the first EU live dregs campaign.
You might also know us from our videos from the past, Go Broke or Go Home and The European Clowncar.

We've been playing Crowfall for with passion for years, providing the community with several guides, such as The Promo Class Breakdown, Minor Discipline Guide, and of course our Tier List.

Enough about us - Why do we quit Crowfall?
To put it into a sentence; It is the built up frustrations with many different aspects of the game.

But to put some words on it, and to spark some discussions with the community, maybe the developers can use this to further develop the game in the future.
*DISCLAIMER - Yes we know the game is in alpha, but it's far into development and you can get a pretty good idea of what the final game will look like*

Game Loop
The game loop is not where we wanted it to be.
Currently it's 1 hour of action per day, and 23 hours of grinding - in a PvP focused game, for people that focus on PvP, that really kills the motivation when you spend most of your time doing PvE.

Caravans
We hoped with the implementation of caravans that it would drive more regular PvP, but in reality it does not do a great job at that.
Mainly people just run those caravans in off hours to build up their buildings.
This hopefully does change with a bigger population of course.

Our hopes of Caravans were timed/announced events, fixed destination of the caravans, where you had to control/protect the caravans to the end, to get the huge amount of resources a caravan can give.
Take us through the beautiful landscape and environments you've made, let enemies that don't make it to the caravans first set up ambushes, let's have some amazing PvP - this would be a type of circle standing I could like, because the circle would be moving :D 

Victory Cards
The victory cards most often promotes PvE farming or sitting in your base and hope the enemy doesn't come to try and take it, so even in the siege windows, most often you will find guilds sitting in their strongholds, because that is most beneficial towards winning the campaign.

This is obviously something they said they can change and do balance passes on - so this is just feedback on what we've tried so far.
But currently with how expensive buildings are, with how short campaigns are and the time it takes to gather those resources - victory cards that promote having "most rank 3 buildings" is just pure slavery.

If you were to have Victory Cards that focuses that hard on PvE, such as Hellcat paws, or sacrificial shards to a certain god, make the points gained from those cards way lower than actual hard cards like most kills in sieges, most stuff capped etc.

War Tribes
The war tribes was a fun addition to the game initially, having those random drops is always a good time waster for MMOs, but in it's current state with Chiefs, Kings etc. in the early game, where crafting almost doesn't matter, being forced to farm those on cooldown to be competitive is not very fun.
This is because the drops from these bosses is just too good not to go for, it's also the main way to get crafting additives.

We really lack alternative ways to get crafting additives, hopefully through PvP (destroy an enemy crafting building - get crafting additives?)

Loot boxes in war tribe camps
It's a cool idea to have boxes with strong weapons and armor in. But they are too easily accessible currently.
Let us fight over them, make it an event in the campaign (15:00 Urgu camp boxes will open)

Animals
Why do we have to farm special versions of animals to acquire necro additives and crafting tools?
Why are there not a PvP way to get these, a trained necromancer chopping up an enemy vessel etc.

Again more alternative ways to acquire additives would be appreciated.

Outposts
With how little they actually matter to the scoreboard, and how long they take to capture, it feels like they need a rehaul.
Yes, it makes sense that it's an activity for smaller scale, but you almost gain nothing from taking the time to kill the guards, then proceed to stand in the circle for X amount of time, just to gain very few points.

Maybe they can have a bigger purpose outside of when the victory cards about outposts are there? Like if you own the outpost in the parcel you gain resource advantages on that parcel?

Forts
Fort fights have always been some of my favourite fights, the only problem with them, is how they are captured in the end.
If one force has more people than the other, they just need to stand in the circle to turn it to their side, there's not much strategy or tactical decisions outside of when your enemy make mistakes.

Could be awesome to see some multi objectives like in the new keeps, because right now Forts are just as valuable as Keeps, if that's where you decide to make your homebase, it's just much easier to lose.

Keeps
The current iteration of keeps are in a pretty cool spot, the only thing we're lacking is players being able to decide their own layout, where to place the wards, buildings, walls etc.
Not necessarily free building, but just give players several different layouts to choose from, so we have some decisions to make depending on the surrounding area.

Siege Windows
As mentioned, the downside of sieges being scheduled to 1 hour per day is that, then people think that's when to PvP.
So they almost only log in to PvP, at that time of the day. This is very much a mental thing, that people see "okay X is open from X to X, that's when I need to prepare my self for PvP".

That's why we suggest timed events more regularly, like Caravans, so people have a visual indicator of PvP is about to happen.

Campaign layout
Often when you want to go attack forts or keeps, having a respawn point nearby is pretty nice to have, especially if you expect you take some losses, then you don't want people to have to run 5-10 minutes to get back to the fights.
But most often respawn outposts are very far off forts, so an idea could be that you give players a way to transform regular outposts to respawn points for X amount of time?
Maybe a stonemason craft or something like that.

It would also help with huge advantages defenders already have in this game.

Crafting
My officer and I were the ones crafting for our entire guild (20+ people), and the current crafting iteration could use some optimizing for sure.
The biggest problem is how inconvenient it is to craft items that require items from other professions, and it's not so much that you have to be on different accounts/characters, it's more that we lack a nice way to keep an overview.

An idea could be: Guild crafting requests, so when you step to a crafting table, a request tab pops up, shows what kind of items guild members have requested, and then you just click on it, and it shows you what item you need to craft at this crafting table, for that item.
So let's say a guild member requests a 1 handed axe, with Crit damage and attack power.
Then on my woodworker account, I go to the woodworking table, click on requests, on the 1 handed axe that is requested, and it says "Craft a Wooden Plank: Birch/Birch/Birch".
Then when you craft it, it says "Part complete by WoodWorkerCharacter" in the request tab, so you can see your progression towards the item, and who crafted the parts.

A part from this, going back to asking for alternative ways of getting things, have crafting be able to compete with War Tribe loot early game too, that way people can choose to either go farm war tribes, or the crafting route - we need more choices.

PvP
This is obviously the most important one for us.
The reason I kept playing Crowfall for 3,5 years, is because the PvP was addicting.
The thrill of beating your enemies with great coordination, and well timed anti healing, tracking enemy ulties etc. was just an overall great experience.

This has sadly turned for the worse in the current patch, with the implementation of Frostweaver and huge amounts of AoE damage.
Currently fights go like this:
- Everyone has frost guards, because the frost armor is so strong that you can't play without it.
- Everyone has Stormcallers, Frost guards and Archmages, because the AoE damage is so strong, you would be gimping yourself if you didn't use it.
- With the amount of damage these classes put out in AoE, you don't really need anything else, because you also get a buttload of CC from the frostguards Volatile Ice mechanics.
- So the rest you just fill up with healers.
- So you see an enemy group, tell everyone to get their AoE ready, then fire it all at once while running into the enemy, and they get AoE'd down, while everyone is clapping in excitement and playing their face and feet.

The PvP has been dumbed down to a level that is not fun anymore, for us at least.

Crowd Control and Retaliate
That every class has access to multiple CC powers on low cooldown, makes the overall CC experience in a fight very spammy.
But to counter this, everyone has retaliate ready all the time, and become CC immune most of the fight.
This leads to that everyone that PvPs almost always have 1 finger on their retaliate button, because you just have to react to the Retaliate Pop up to keep playing like nothing happend.
It feels trivial to the fights, it's just annoying but doesn't have that much of an impact.

What would help the overall combat experience in our opinion, is to limit the amount of CCs, make them longer cooldown, but make them have a bigger impact - so retaliate on a cooldown - that way it also means that you need to use stuff like juggernaut and escape artist to outplay/counter stuff - and you can set up burst windows.

We want to go back to tracking enemy cooldowns, so we know when we can go for the kill with set ups.

Class mechanics
With the implementation of the Frostweaver ACE showcased that they are able to actually make unique and interesting powers, so an overhaul for the other classes towards this direction is very much needed.
Most of the current classes/builds are not mechanically challenging, even a 6 year old can play champion in PvP.
There's no real depth in the skill variety, combos etc., the promotion classes adds very little to the playstyle.
An example here could be that you put almost all CC into the actual CC promotions.

Disciplines
With the limited amount of viable majors and minors, everyone is running the same builds.
You're playing Icecaller? Earthkeeper? Crusader? Use Field Surgeon and Naiad.
Minors? Sturdy, overwhelming odds, matching X.

There are no other choices that can beat that.
We desperately need more viable choices so we can specialize our builds more towards our preferred playstyles - but it's impossible currently with how the fights play out.

Balancing
This is one of the next steps they announced they will be working on.
And it's definitely needed.
Here are some suggestions to changes:

- Reduce Volatile Ice Damage.
- Reduce Volatile Ice Proc chance.
- Reduce Aura Emitter Damage.
- Increase Barrage damage to whatever you reduce the other AoEs to.
(Single target dmg should always be higher than AoE, which is not the case currently)
- Reduce Frost Armor (from Frost Guard) to take 5 seconds to break, instead of 10.
- Move Crowd Control to CC promotions for the different classes.
- Make hybrids more viable. (Arbiter/Archdruid some more base support power forexample)
- Give melees more CC immunity than Ranged Classes. In big fights, melees have to run through hell to get to targets, where ranged can just pew pew from range, meaning all the CC affects melee way more than ranged. To make up for this, give them more CC immunity so they also have a chance to do anything.
We need melee to be viable again, and this is one of the main reasons they are not playable in big fights.
- Early game the offensive stats from war tribe gear is way higher than what you can gain for healers, meaning damage is way higher than healing. Could use some fine-tuning, see Crafting feedback.
- Generally we think with longer cooldowns on powers, ultimates, retaliate etc., the fights won't be as spammy, but more about setting up combos together, which is what we would prefer.

Classes
There are so many promotion classes that are unplayable in the current iteration of combat - because they don't feel specialized enough in what they are advertised as.
Champion (Only Pit Fighter is played):
Alpha Warrior lots of damage? Well with how the Pit Fighter capstone works, Pit Fighter actually have enough damage but way more survivability.
Barbarian lots of crowd control? Well all the other champions have almost the same amount of CC, just more dmg or survivability.

Cleric (Only Crusader is played):
Arbiter lots of crowd control? Well with how retaliate works, and since you can have 2 roots on Crusader from naiad + native root, the Crusader have enough crowd control and way more healing.
Radical ranged dps? Compare it to ANY other ranged dps and it will fall short in output over time.

Knight (Secutor and Swordsman are played):
Sentinel lots of crowd control? The other knights have exactly the same amount of CC, and the Secutor even has better CC through spammable dodge pip removal.

Templar (Paladin and Fury are played):
Vindicator melee dps? The main damage from a vindicator is execute, their divine light is not worth it, because only 5 targets and slow tick rate. Compare it's output to forexample Titan (if the melees even can have uptime) then it falls short.

Ranger (lol):
Archer is somewhat viable, because of their single target sniping from long range, but the damage output versus the other ranged dps (confessor, stormcaller, archmage), it's so slow.
Their barrage is also very low dmg compared to other AoE.
Warden tanky ranger? Well if people just ignore the warden, what can it actually do?
Brigand stealth traps? Traps being that huge and clearly visible makes it very bad for combat where you fight enemies that have eyes in their head. Their slow stealth movement also makes it hard to use Brigand for group fights, where they would shine if they quickly could get into the backline and surprise with traps.

Assassin (even more lol):
Sadly the only thing assassin is useful for is PvE, and that's the blackguard.
Assassin needs a serious overhaul, make it have some kind of impact through lockdown (see retaliate changes) or AoE antiheal or something useful.

Frostweaver (Everything is played):
You make a well designed class, and suddenly every promotion is used and feels unique.

Confessor (Inquisitor and Fanatic is played):
Why change the names btw? Fanatic (CC promotion) is not used for their CC abilities though, because all confessors have the same CC. They are mainly just used for their passive elemental break debuff.
Sanctifier is sadly still a joke, has no impact on fights, condemnation being locked in animation, their low range on CC, sanctifiers are ignoreable in fights.

Myrmidon (Titan is played once every full moon):
Titan went from one of the best DPS' if played well, to unplayable with the implementation of ranged AoE and huge amount of CC.
Battlerager is ignoreable, it can soak dmg, but has no CC that makes an impact nor any utility or damage.
Conqueror was also a great pick before to have 1 of in your lineup - now it's useless, frostweaver does it better.

Duelist (Slayer is played):
Slayer is played because it has lots of control combined with good ranged damage, you actually feel like a DPS promotion playing this.
Vanguard Scout is a promotion people forget exist.
Dirge is used for harvesting characters, because it's easier to craft mail/plate harvesting gear.

Druid (Earthkeeper and Stormcaller is used):
Archdruid used to be THE AoE damage. You would work together to set up the big one shots - it has now been overtaken by the quick AoE dmg Frostweavers and Stormcallers has, why take 20 seconds to set up a one shot, when you can spam AoE dmg every second on a Frostweaver with almost no ramp-up time?

Hitboxes
Hitboxes really have to get fine tuned, if anyone has ever tried to play a ranged character, trying to hit enemies on objects, fort/keep walls etc. most often even though your reticle is straight on the enemy character, you will not hit your enemy. Very frustrating.

Leveling
I understand that leveling was implemented to slowly introduce players to the class and their powers/mechanics.
But if that's the reason, why do you then still have to level advanced vessels? Did you think we forgot how to play our class after we upgraded our vessel?
We should just have short class introductions when you create a basic vessel, and that should be it.
Leveling feels misplaced in a PvP game like this, which brings me to the next part, New Player Experience.

New Player Experience
Now I know the current New Player Experience is not done.
But here's what a new player needs to know (I have explained, trained and taught A LOT of new players over the last 3 years):
- They need to understand that fights are mainly played in groups.
- They need to learn how to use siege equipment.
- They need to learn how objectives work.
- They need to learn how to craft advanced stuff. Learning this means they get to learn how crafting items are dependent on multi professions/crafters and requires time. Which hopefully teaches them to appreciate when they get well crafted stuff.
"I would like an epic Runic Sword" "Yeah but do you understand the effort it takes to make a sword like that happen?"
- They need to learn the basics of their class (later all classes, but that shouldn't be in the intro)
- They need to learn how harvesting works, where resources come from, what Plentiful harvest is etc.
- What victory cards are etc.

If they learn all this stuff in the introduction, they will be well suited to out into a campaign and actually contribute for a guild.
It's a huge amount of work, but this is what guilds are forced to teach new players when they take them into their guild.

__________________

Now this sounds like a lot of negative stuff, but it's just how we have experienced the game the last 3 years.

Here's some positive stuff though:
- Dregs, Guild vs Guild worked out great, the forced friendly fire between allied guilds adds a fun factor to fights.
- Thralls at night is a cool mechanic, and forces people out into the world (will work great with a big population)
- The game have been great enough to play it non-stop for 3+ years, you have done a lot of stuff right.
- All the different stats in the game makes it an awesome experience for min/max'ers, that you can really dive into your stats and exactly hit your caps in late game etc. is great. (Only problem is what is actually viable vs obtainable)
- Harvesting was chill and useful (till Caravans)
- The feeling of being dependant on eachother in a guild is still there, you can't fight without your crafters, you can't craft without your harvesters, you can't harvest without your crafters.
(I know wartribe = non crafted gear, caravans = non harvested resources, but still :D )

We hope the devs can use some of this feedback.
Hopefully a bigger population will fix a lot of these frustrations, only time will tell.

Now, this was a long post, and if you've reached the end, thank you for reading, this post was made to spark discussions about the game, so fire away, but keep it constructive!

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My Twitch - My Youtube - Apply to Vanguard HERE!

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We have decided to quit Crowfall for now. We will most likely first be back when beta hits in hopes of it can cure our frustrations. But lately it's been feeling like a chore to log in and play th

There was nothing in yumxs post that suggested it was a lack of competition on EU that proved to be the final straw for them. His feedback is felt by a vast majority of the community, as others h

Us pushing for the win has nothing to do with all this feedback, all this feedback would still be valid even if you guys could compete.

All valid points and many feel the same way.

But it was also your choice to Push for the Win in an incomplete game and that comes at a cost. The more you are on top the more lonely makes you feel. Challenge is what makes adrenaline.

In a Sandbox is not the developer that will build the content it's us the players and especially the Leaders. 
Game is just a tool set - use it wisely if you want to have something to do.

May Beta bring more to you and all of us!

/salute

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.ro

 

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11 minutes ago, Prometeu said:

All valid points and many feel the same way.

But it was also your choice to Push for the Win in an incomplete game and that comes at a cost. The more you are on top the more lonely makes you feel. Challenge is what makes adrenaline.

In a Sandbox is not the developer that will build the content it's us the players and especially the Leaders. 
Game is just a tool set - use it wisely if you want to have something to do.

May Beta bring more to you and all of us!

/salute

Us pushing for the win has nothing to do with all this feedback, all this feedback would still be valid even if you guys could compete.

 pJ5xyok.png
My Twitch - My Youtube - Apply to Vanguard HERE!

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15 minutes ago, Prometeu said:

In a Sandbox is not the developer that will build the content it's us the players and especially the Leaders. 
Game is just a tool set - use it wisely if you want to have something to do.

 

The term sandbox gets abused for years now as a cheap excuse for not having any content. If you find anything in CF which you would call "sandbox", there is way to much restrictions arround it and in that way you can call every game ever made a sandbox game. You can prolly even call pacman a sandboxgame with some fantasy.

There is no sand in this box

Edited by Makuza
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Always sad to see such a force take a break, but everything in here i agree with except Caravans replacing traditional harvesting (it has changed the source for primary resources up to blue quality) but there are many other resources from harvesting that Caravans don't do. I do beleive it needs to be rebalanced though and looked at.

Hope to see you guys in beta for some more awesome fights.

Any game taking your fancy right now @Yumx ?

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4 minutes ago, Marklarr said:

Always sad to see such a force take a break, but everything in here i agree with except Caravans replacing traditional harvesting (it has changed the source for primary resources up to blue quality) but there are many other resources from harvesting that Caravans don't do. I do beleive it needs to be rebalanced though and looked at.

Hope to see you guys in beta for some more awesome fights.

Any game taking your fancy right now @Yumx ?

We're looking at that New World starting 23rd July, just to play something together as a guild. Maybe it'll be entertaining for a month or 2 :D

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My Twitch - My Youtube - Apply to Vanguard HERE!

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49 minutes ago, Prometeu said:

All valid points and many feel the same way.

But it was also your choice to Push for the Win in an incomplete game and that comes at a cost. The more you are on top the more lonely makes you feel. Challenge is what makes adrenaline.

In a Sandbox is not the developer that will build the content it's us the players and especially the Leaders. 
Game is just a tool set - use it wisely if you want to have something to do.

May Beta bring more to you and all of us!

/salute

Woosh

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Hope things turn around and guys come back.

 

Combat - it's been solved, and there is only one question and answer. Right now we are playing a game of rock, rock, rock. We need more viable answers. CF combat (once you get into battles of 15+) is less complex than rock, paper, scissors.

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Sad to see you go! 
And i hope u come back fast with beta.
I agree with many points but definitely not with the aoe one, for me it's not aoe which are too strong but just spells to counter it are missing.

A last thing, i think instead of totally leaving the game, i think a guild like yours should organize things for the community like tournament in ek or things like that. Dev team should do that too but they dont, so leaders must show the way in that case instead of leave the ship (even if i can understand the tiredness).

Enjoy your time on NW

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I mostly agree with everything. just to clarify imo some classes can shine in later for example, archers (with 1000ap and close to cap crit chance) compared to for example slayers which have at the start pretty much close to cap stats (almost 1k ap, almost capped crit chance, high crit dmg).

 

also did some listing here

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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1 hour ago, royo said:

I agree with many points but definitely not with the aoe one, for me it's not aoe which are too strong but just spells to counter it are missing.

how you can counter 30m aoe spam for 1k each (archmage)?  😃

compared for example, with barrage (20 per tick) or how you can compare 65% mitigations ontop of others minor bonuses? what about if you will get infinite mana pool + capped mitigations + 1k per hit spammable aoe at the same time? right, everyone rolled frostweavers. this is all about risk vs bonuses. you should not has to get bonuses without any risks.

I really scare about current boring balance and boring class building which mean builds looks are almost the same from class to class.

or how OP become clerics/druids with 2k SP in late game? or what you can do with those 5m melee with the same 300 per hit as healer can do from range? -=)

 

and also there are a huge problems in how balance should be in early game or in late game (with crafted gear, caps, high crow tree)

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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3 hours ago, Yumx said:

This has sadly turned for the worse in the current patch, with the implementation of Frostweaver and huge amounts of AoE damage.
Currently fights go like this:
- Everyone has frost guards, because the frost armor is so strong that you can't play without it.
- Everyone has Stormcallers, Frost guards and Archmages, because the AoE damage is so strong, you would be gimping yourself if you didn't use it.
- With the amount of damage these classes put out in AoE, you don't really need anything else, because you also get a buttload of CC from the frostguards Volatile Ice mechanics.
- So the rest you just fill up with healers.
- So you see an enemy group, tell everyone to get their AoE ready, then fire it all at once while running into the enemy, and they get AoE'd down, while everyone is clapping in excitement and playing their face and feet.

The PvP has been dumbed down to a level that is not fun anymore, for us at least.

Literally all 3 huge fights for us in last nights campaign. Was not even fun!

Edited by Khalanos
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I can definitely agree that Frostweaver ice spam and Stormcallers have made the meta really really bad.

Luckily I think most of your comments about certain activities being boring and the game loop feeling incomplete are largely due to population. Doing XYZ building task does feel lame if nobody is contesting you. Especially if you're the top dog of your campaign. If you guys were on U.S. servers I think you'd have more fun due to having more competitive guilds right now.

Most of your concerns I agree with to certain degrees. Luckily I think they're very much fixable or something that won't remain a long term issue.

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9 minutes ago, ZYBAK said:

Most of your concerns I agree with to certain degrees. Luckily I think they're very much fixable or something that won't remain a long term issue.

most of this fast fixable but the time... time is not on the devs side 😃 with their developing speed.

btw right after 4g will be cutted off the eu community it looks like there will be no players around lol 😃

12 minutes ago, ZYBAK said:

Luckily I think most of your comments about certain activities being boring and the game loop feeling incomplete are largely due to population

it can be worked in other direction. if they put on the server 1000 active players, there will be much more other kind of problems. both ways exist atm as a problems.

 

14 minutes ago, ZYBAK said:

If you guys were on U.S. servers I think you'd have more fun due to having more competitive guilds right now.

ace did big mistake in terms of testing: splitting small community between 3. and ontop of this carebear paradise - GR which have sometimes more ppl than Dregs lol

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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Agree with every point you've made. Hopefully your final word will be heard in ACE's management and they will do something to make Crowfall a PVP game again.

 

Like you, @Yumx , I'm also a fan of Crowfall and I'm thrilled by many aspects of this game. But after it became a PVE grind game it really starts to feel like a chore. Even guilds who win campaigns nowadays still have a sour aftertaste because of the amount of PVE they had to do. Off-hours caravans... heh... classic.

Sad to hear that you guys are leaving. It was great to play with you. Hope we'll see some improvements from devs based on your feedback and I really hope to see you guys back after some time.

 

Sadly another big and strong guild leaves our small but competitive community following HoA (within less than 2 months period). 

Wish you guys good luck! 🧡 ⚔️ 🛡️

 

P.S. It seems like JTodd and Thomas Blair should say something about this post and/or issues revealed here in their Q&A session tomorrow.

Edited by SAM_BUKA

Tyrant: you were too tough, they gave up. (10/15/2020)

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Thanks @Yumx

I was in denial about where this game is and my thoughts on it. I've played, nearly every day you could log into this game since HD and reading this post I can not agree more.

ACE, whom ever you are taking suggestions from for how this game should go... fire them or stop listening to them. This game was much more fun in the past. Go look at your kick starter video, the one that got us all way back then and do it with the vision you started with.

Stop making us grind for every little thing we need. More Bon Tippers anyone? 

Maybe what you are getting wrong is that you feel you need to make sure we grind for everything in order to PvP. PvP first please! Right now you can't expect to pvp competitively without having a guild of people grinding through the Harvesting and Crafting in order to make anything worth a dam.

I dont know what to tell ya or where to go... go back to the start and stick to your vision then, if you think it's the same vision, look again and read Yumx post. 

More guilds will follow unfortunately.

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a lot of truth in this post.

I have stopped playing temporarily because character/vessel progress is locked behind the lack of rare minor disciplines.

I liked the small scale pvp we had going with outposts and such-- but with the events channel making outpost conquest heard across the map its difficult to accomplish anything with 2-3 people

www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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