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Darkstar412

Lunge Dagger the solution to not our problem

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Posted (edited)

With the normalization of dodges this is not a problem. Use to you could take a Nethari and it would solve the gap closer problem before normalization. Not sure where the devs thought we had a gap closer problem when its a survivability problem. We cant regain stealth at will anymore due to the bar change but nothing has been done to compensate. Stealth was our survivability and now its near impossible to regain it. We cant stealth with dots on our enemeys. Our ulti is garbage that doesnt cleanse and takes forever to charge to 100%. Confessor class gets higher uptime in combat stealth due to 50% vanish which makes no sense should be other way around.

There were a billion different ways to give us a decent gap closer like forrest step (Ranger), or teleport (Duelist). Instead we get a borked dagger combo. 

Solution: Give us higher uptime on stealth. Give us the ability to stealth in combat regardless of dots on us or the enemy as long as we havnt been hit by direct damage in 3 seconds. The dots will pull us out on next tick but it can give you enough time to break sight, and if you pop a barrier right before you most likely can juke or create distance before the dot pulls you out. Give us a 50% ulti for the love of god confessor has it and its a ranged dps mage. Give us a forrest step or teleport like ranger or duelist the daggers just feel bad. I want control over my gap closer. The proc daggers are a cool idea for drains but to rely on them for a gap closer isnt. All that had to be done was rename the duelist or ranger ability to fit assassin and call it a day. If the stealth problem is a we cant do it problem, buff the damage and survivability outright then by higher personal damage mod and higher bonus damage in trees. 

The assassin is suppose to kill a target and get away in the shadows. We cant do either because I fight with over cooked spaghetti noodles an have no shade. 

 

Edited by Darkstar412

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what we get with lunge?

- assassins only daggers users

- knights dissolve into the horizon / assssins dissolve into the horizon with stealth

- assassins/knights are the teleport masters in the sieges

- lunge users can fly. walls? pfff

- 20m races non existed, especially for lunge users coz 10m races have x2 pips with faster restoring.

- lunge hit harder than most of skills

- lunge restore dodge on success hit

those issues all or some of it required investigatement and attentions. as fast as it goes on live servers.

 

btw I still agree on another ways to fix knight/assassins and other melee classes mobility problems.

if we talking about assassins I think more access to stealth while in combat would be awesome.


crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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9 minutes ago, makkon said:

- assassins only daggers users

 

Cutthroat : 10% damage bonus to Piercing
Blackguard : 10% damage bonus to Slashing
Vandal : 10% damage bonus to Crushing.

But why!


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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37 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

Cutthroat : 10% damage bonus to Piercing
Blackguard : 10% damage bonus to Slashing
Vandal : 10% damage bonus to Crushing.

But why!

ah ok. your favorite sin spec without 10% slashing bonus lol or without lunge 😃


crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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Certainly should be easier to re-enter stealth while in combat as long as YOU haven't been hit or taken damage or caused damage(dot damage you caused shouldn't keep you in combat). Should have more control over keeping someone locked down or going for more a more damage approach.

Assassin would be better if some of the skill trees got combined. Like imagine cutthroat/vandal with suppressed backstabs and better poisons and a CC stun coming out of stealth.

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Posted (edited)

I agree that lunge as it is now is broken, i think they could change it to use all your dodge pips, so races with 2 dodges dont be so OP with the lunge attack, i already report the problem with our ultimate it should make us immune to damage so even with dots you should be able to stay stealth while the buff is up, also agree that if you  get hit by a dot and you have a barrier, it shouldnt take you out of stealth unless the barrier break or finish duration, we should be able to leave combat if we dont take direct hit, if my enemy is poisoned i wont leave combat until the poison is gone, that shouldnt be like that... 50% ult is also gd idea, maybe change the lunge dmg for a dmg similar to a basic attack and make it generate a pip would be nice

Edited by Aeternitatis

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5 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

Cutthroat : 10% damage bonus to Piercing
Blackguard : 10% damage bonus to Slashing
Vandal : 10% damage bonus to Crushing.

But why!

like most changes it doesnt seem like they fully think it out, just like FW(FG) nerf, it made the rest of the promos useless

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On 7/30/2020 at 12:43 PM, Dragoth said:

Certainly should be easier to re-enter stealth while in combat as long as YOU haven't been hit or taken damage or caused damage(dot damage you caused shouldn't keep you in combat). Should have more control over keeping someone locked down or going for more a more damage approach.

Assassin would be better if some of the skill trees got combined. Like imagine cutthroat/vandal with suppressed backstabs and better poisons and a CC stun coming out of stealth.

See, thats why i really dislike the combat/non-combat implementation.  It creates all sorts of weird interactions such as with stealth, with movement speed, mounting etc.  I just really don't understand why the wouldn't just balance the movement speed across the board rather than create this weird dichotomy that makes it FAR more challenging to balance.

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Would love to see:

1) A pip-consuming ability that provides damage immunity, stealth/invis, and like a 50% movement speed bonus for like 3-8sec + ult redesign (lunging AOE that applies blackmantle?). OR more frequent use of ult.

2) Split disengage/engage to a branching combo (one branch disengage, one branch engage). Possibly first part is movement speed buff. Currently, I basically spin my camera to use disengage as a gap closer, which is funny but dumb.

3) If 1 and ult redesign: Enter the Shadows triggers on disengage, putting you in stealth if no damage taken.

4) Isn't it weird that the thing called 'assassin' doesn't get an execute?

Stealth isn't really OP. I mean we have mole hunter, gestalt, etc. There are counters. Make people use them. Stealth tray is pretty damn lackluster anyway, but it does effectively provide survivability by not being targeted.

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40 minutes ago, Pystkeebler said:

Would love to see:

1) A pip-consuming ability that provides damage immunity, stealth/invis, and like a 50% movement speed bonus for like 3-8sec + ult redesign (lunging AOE that applies blackmantle?). OR more frequent use of ult.

2) Split disengage/engage to a branching combo (one branch disengage, one branch engage). Possibly first part is movement speed buff. Currently, I basically spin my camera to use disengage as a gap closer, which is funny but dumb.

3) If 1 and ult redesign: Enter the Shadows triggers on disengage, putting you in stealth if no damage taken.

4) Isn't it weird that the thing called 'assassin' doesn't get an execute?

Stealth isn't really OP. I mean we have mole hunter, gestalt, etc. There are counters. Make people use them. Stealth tray is pretty damn lackluster anyway, but it does effectively provide survivability by not being targeted.

OP assassins arent fun, or good for the game. 

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53 minutes ago, Zatch said:

OP assassins arent fun, or good for the game. 

Everything I suggested can be balanced by cooldowns and durations, has a counter (e.g. mole hunter), or can be played around by the good old fashioned buddy system.

OP is being able to take someone from 100% hp to 0%hp from stealth and returning to stealth without risk. We're nowhere close to that. Right now this class has 0 function in a group, and isn't a real threat outside of some 1v1 engagements.

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5 hours ago, Zatch said:

OP assassins arent fun, or good for the game. 

Neither is low skill aoe spam from range classes. If an assassin gets the jump on anyone in a 1v1 they should be able to kill them no questions unless they are braindead. The problem is group fights and picking the right target. 

 

And yeah if I blow all my cooldowns and use my ult I should be able to 100-0 someone.

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Just now, Dragoth said:

Neither is low skill aoe spam from range classes. If an assassin gets the jump on anyone in a 1v1 they should be able to kill them no questions unless they are braindead. The problem is group fights and picking the right target. 

 

And yeah if I blow all my cooldowns and use my ult I should be able to 100-0 someone.

I don't think this the right perspective.  Assassin should have an advantage, sure but I don't think that it is great balance to have a class able to guarantee a gib 1:1.  

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2 minutes ago, Arkdin said:

I don't think this the right perspective.  Assassin should have an advantage, sure but I don't think that it is great balance to have a class able to guarantee a gib 1:1.  

With the favorable condition I stated. If an assassin can open you up from stealth and use all cooldowns and ult unless there braindead I don't see how that would be a problem. Since it would take that exact scenario for it to work, it wouldn't work if someone got the jump on the assassin....you see where i'm going here?

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1 minute ago, Dragoth said:

With the favorable condition I stated. If an assassin can open you up from stealth and use all cooldowns and ult unless there braindead I don't see how that would be a problem. Since it would take that exact scenario for it to work, it wouldn't work if someone got the jump on the assassin....you see where i'm going here?

I always hated it when assassins where able to 100-0 someone. If there is no point in even trying you can also go afk as soon as you see an assassin engaging you. This takes away so much fun. I know some assassin players do love that but i hope they are the minority. I prefer to kill my enemies if they have a chance and give me an even fight. (I am no assassin player tho)

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Dragoth said:

With the favorable condition I stated. If an assassin can open you up from stealth and use all cooldowns and ult unless there braindead I don't see how that would be a problem. Since it would take that exact scenario for it to work, it wouldn't work if someone got the jump on the assassin....you see where i'm going here?

What you are asking for is terrible. You should be tar and feathered.

Edited by Zatch

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41 minutes ago, Rooq said:

I always hated it when assassins where able to 100-0 someone. If there is no point in even trying you can also go afk as soon as you see an assassin engaging you. This takes away so much fun. I know some assassin players do love that but i hope they are the minority. I prefer to kill my enemies if they have a chance and give me an even fight. (I am no assassin player tho)

Atm the assassin is the one who do not have a chance to fight, i dont need a op assassin, i need a viable one

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Aeternitatis said:

Atm the assassin is the one who do not have a chance to fight, i dont need a op assassin, i need a viable one

50 minutes ago, Rooq said:

I prefer to kill my enemies if they have a chance and give me an even fight.

 

Yup. Exactly what i said. I like them being viable, but i also like having a chance.

 

Edit: Its a thin line to reach that point. Thats why i like the lunge approach.

Edited by Rooq

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Posted (edited)

You guys sound like you don't leave the house without a healbot at your side. 🙄

 

It's not like you can't try to run away... but if an assassin gets a jump on you and perfectly uses cooldowns and ult then cry me a river. Whats the point in being an assassin if I can't do that then? Would you prefer the assassin wreck groups instead? 

 

WoW Rogues got it right I had to CC then burst you then hit you with a blind re-stealth and do another burst. Even then it wasn't always automatic, but yall just sound like sissys that don't like getting stunlocked. Even with all that there is ways to get out of it with racials or items.

 

Still don't get it if an assassin gets the jump on you why shouldn't he have the upperhand? Should it still be an even fight if I opened you up from stealth? lol

Edited by Dragoth
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3 hours ago, Dragoth said:

You guys sound like you don't leave the house without a healbot at your side. 🙄

 

It's not like you can't try to run away... but if an assassin gets a jump on you and perfectly uses cooldowns and ult then cry me a river. Whats the point in being an assassin if I can't do that then? Would you prefer the assassin wreck groups instead? 

 

WoW Rogues got it right I had to CC then burst you then hit you with a blind re-stealth and do another burst. Even then it wasn't always automatic, but yall just sound like sissys that don't like getting stunlocked. Even with all that there is ways to get out of it with racials or items.

 

Still don't get it if an assassin gets the jump on you why shouldn't he have the upperhand? Should it still be an even fight if I opened you up from stealth? lol

Wow is a really good point (had similar encounters in mind) but with the current state of retaliate stunlocking isnt really a thing (from what i feel). Being completely honest i admit that i dont really like rogues because of exactly this. It just doesnt feel satisfying at all. If you have a good fight with someone who barely kills can make you feel good or like you want to try again. If you get ganked by a rogue 100-0 while stunlocked and there is nothing you can do except watch the rogue show his extraordinary cc chaining skills does in fact not make me want to fight him again.

Thats why i feel like players should at least feel like they have a chance. From what i have seen so far balancing rogues isnt always the easiest thing to do and while it sucks for sin players if they are underwhelming i feel like it would hurt the game economy more if they where overpowered, so tweaking small things is acceptable for me until balance is reached.

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