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trugamer

Crowfall - Class Design Issue!

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Here's a discussion I've started https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mebfSou47V0&list=UUmh_scZDlWxHUczuPvOR_FA please watch the video its very short and I think it covers an important issue for Crowfall to address and I would really appreciate it if we could get the Devs involved in this too!

 

Basically I've seen this problem in a lot of games and I think it's just wasted potential not having a class that can fully utilise it's skill set at end game, I find it suffocates the experience of the role played! 

 

Ultimately though you have warriors that are designed to use bows and sword, but people are only using swords because bows are not a viable build...it kind of seems like wasted effort to develop bow skills and such!

 

THAT IS MY GRIPE!

Edited by trugamer

-Truthe Yashikawa

The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild.  Welcome Home.

http://crowfall.shivtr.com/

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... only using swords because bows are not a viable build...it kind of seems like wasted effort to develop bow skills and such!

 

 

Why would you think that, much less believe it before you have played the game with a bow or a sword?


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"Agelmar is King of the Hypocrites and Ruler of the Kingdom of Hypocrytia"

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Why would you think that, much less believe it before you have played the game with a bow or a sword?

This^ And your link is broken.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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You don't know if each individual build is or is not fully utilized in endgame. I mean, there's like +12 Archetypes and each of them goes into three subclasses. The devs are clearly giving thoughts into character skills, otherwise they would put up 5 Classes that can use each individually up to three different weapons and let the people play without a endgame utilized build, like.. ANY OTHER MMORPG, sadly.

I'd say Aion Online was on a good way to utilize subclasses in endgame, but for some reason after 2.0 it came to a halt and further utilization wasn't made. I don't think Crowfall will make the same mistake. Let us wait and see, there's plenty time to observe and critizes once we know the facts.

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Thanks guys, I've fixed the link.

 

Once again I'm not saying Crowfall will make any big mistakes, I'm simply saying when I choose my ranger, I want to be able to get all the skills in the skill tree/trees thus fully allowing me to be a ranger!

 

 

Too many games have tried to give this uber customisation option ArcheAge, Rift, and as always there are do's and dont's making some builds viable and others not.


-Truthe Yashikawa

The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild.  Welcome Home.

http://crowfall.shivtr.com/

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Why would you think that, much less believe it before you have played the game with a bow or a sword?

 

Apparently this guy never played Shadowbane.. Crossbow dwarf warriors.. vs Cloth... lol


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lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

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RIP DOC GONZO

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No I didn't, I wasn't simply commenting on viability. Please see ArcheAge and Rift.

Well, as long as Crowfall does the opposite of what Trion has been doing with their games in the past couple years, they'll be golden.

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No I didn't, I wasn't simply commenting on viability. Please see ArcheAge and Rift.

 

This isn't ArchAge or Rift.  We will have to see where it ends up.


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"Agelmar is King of the Hypocrites and Ruler of the Kingdom of Hypocrytia"

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You can't simply compare Rift and ArcheAge with Crowfall.

ArcheAge is a sandbox game, in which you (like in every other Sandbox MMO) you get thrown into the game with skills available. If you reach a certain level, you unlocked the skills for your build and even further for other builds.

Rift is something different. Rift offered endgame skills that were annihilating once you fully unlock a soul's path. If you get three souls instead of one single, you combine the strength and weaknesses of each soul to your advantage, but you sacrifice the endgame skills. It's a good system.

And Crowfall.. we don't know anything yet, it's still in Pre-Alpha Build and Ideas as well Concepts aren't fully fleshed out.

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As I said on your vid:

They already said that not every class will inevitably be balanced equally. There will be situations and scenarios where one class is better than another, and so on and so forth. A fire slinging mage is not always your best choice. Especially when said fire slinging mage is stuck flinging fire in to melee combat, where an ally is fighting away. Not without some teamwork with said melee ally at least.

A knight being able to specialise in a bow is not a big deal, so long as they can maintain the ability of their initial sword. This means they are no longer a pure melee character and will have the ability to switch on the fly. Hopefully that's how it works anyway.

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haha I think I have seen that video before (Lars Andersen) very skilled guy.

 

Rift was unbalanced, ArcheAge was unbalanced.

 

"They already said that not every class will inevitably be balanced equally. There will be situations and scenarios where one class is better than another, and so on and so forth." I already understand where you are coming, I'm not trying to say some classes will be the best in terms of say mages being the OP class, I'm simply saying there's no reason to allow people to make bad class choices, I don't think of it as handholding I think of it as lazy programming.

 

Also if you've been reading depending on how you build your character it won't be viable to say be able to use bow and sword, these are decisions you will have to make.

 

I'm not saying I won't play the game if they don't tick the boxes I like, it has already impressed me to the point that I know I want to have a bash on it, furthermore I want to play with my psycho uber hardcore friends and really blow the lid off this game doing some fun teamwork stuff. I just hope it ticks just a few of the boxes that I'm really looking for because I'm in love with the CF concept and would be sad to have to let it go.

 

The MMORPG guy said I'm tired of MMORPG that "hold your hand" by not allowing you to make really broken class decisions, well to him I say, eventually people are going to make simulators and with wikis and what not people are going to know what the better decisions are and how to make them, so why not avoid that problem entirely as I've mentioned from the start, LET THE WARRIOR BE THE WARRIOR!

Edited by trugamer

-Truthe Yashikawa

The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild.  Welcome Home.

http://crowfall.shivtr.com/

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But you're assuming these will be bad decisions.

If I make a ranged spec knight, I'm building for a hybrid of ranged and melee.

Simply put, I will never be the best of either.

 

That being said, I'm now quite versatile.

 

If people make bad decisions, the simple answer is: Rebuild, try something else.

It sounds like Eternal Worlds are account wide, so you can just leave your stuff there and try something new.

 

Still, I wouldn't mind respecs. So long as your time and use earned training aren't affected.

 

But honestly, I see it coming down to a case of "Think before you choose"

Inevitably we'll end up with a full wiki stating what options are available for each specialisation of a class, etc.

It'll just be the initial push that will be rocky.

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Battles will dictate the type of warrior you need on the field. Example: If the enemy has a ton of casters who slow you down and kite your 1h/2h warriors but kill rangers and scouts too fast due to their low health.. stick a crossbow on your beefy warrior and laugh at the caster spec/builds that come your way. If Crowfall is anything like Shadowbane you won't be playing any one class exclusively (at least not when you're PvPing as a guild) unless, of course, you're a healer or a buff-bot. 


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lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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Tyroki if you watch the MMORPG.com video on Crowfall you will see that you can make bad decisions that don't work and I'm not sure you can "respec" you build skills but you can only build up a few skills not all of them, there are limits.

 

thenebrosity I totally get what you are saying but I agree with you! What I have been trying to say is that when I reach end game I want to have unlocked all my skills allowing me to be proficient with all the warrior skills, I don't want to miss out on skills, I just think this is lame. I even like the idea of the "promotion class" I think it's called.


-Truthe Yashikawa

The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild.  Welcome Home.

http://crowfall.shivtr.com/

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Tyroki if you watch the MMORPG.com video on Crowfall you will see that you can make bad decisions that don't work and I'm not sure you can "respec" you build skills but you can only build up a few skills not all of them, there are limits.

 

thenebrosity I totally get what you are saying but I agree with you! What I have been trying to say is that when I reach end game I want to have unlocked all my skills allowing me to be proficient with all the warrior skills, I don't want to miss out on skills, I just think this is lame. I even like the idea of the "promotion class" I think it's called.

 

Hrmm.. I guess I see what you're saying.. looking at the point system they;re leaning towards you'll probably have to make a warrior to fit each role. Hopefully this game is more focused on PvP than on farming.. if it ends up being another grindfest it'll really suck.. however, I don't see it taking more than a day or so to max out your character if you have a good guild/team to work with and keep the gankers away.   :)

 

If it takes a day or two to max out your characters I really don't see this being an issue. Also, since gear is not bound to your characters (i hope) you can always trade your eq between them.


OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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Hrmm.. I guess I see what you're saying.. looking at the point system they;re leaning towards you'll probably have to make a warrior to fit each role. Hopefully this game is more focused on PvP than on farming.. if it ends up being another grindfest it'll really suck.. however, I don't see it taking more than a day or so to max out your character if you have a good guild/team to work with and keep the gankers away.   :)

 

If it takes a day or two to max out your characters I really don't see this being an issue. Also, since gear is not bound to your characters (i hope) you can always trade your eq between them.

 

Basically the game looks amazing I'm just hoping I can get people to focus on REAL issues and bring them up for discussion with the devs. It would be a shame for devs to miss answering big questions like these, if we can challenge them to defend themselves, you never know, they might be inspired by our ideas and evolve their system, they might also have some great justifications about their choices and I'd like to hear them.


-Truthe Yashikawa

The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild.  Welcome Home.

http://crowfall.shivtr.com/

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Basically the game looks amazing I'm just hoping I can get people to focus on REAL issues and bring them up for discussion with the devs. It would be a shame for devs to miss answering big questions like these, if we can challenge them to defend themselves, you never know, they might be inspired by our ideas and evolve their system, they might also have some great justifications about their choices and I'd like to hear them.

Yeah will be interesting to see how long it takes to get a character to endgame pvp.. that will definitely have a huge influence on what type of ideas need to be considered.


OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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