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We tried the "players build everything even your starting gear" for years and it was a terrible experience for new players, and a terrible experience for server economies and low end PvP.

We tried "no leveling" and it led to people hot-rolling whatever the current meta was and a server full of nothing but people trying to reroll scissors after fighting paper once.

We tried not having a tutorial and it led to leading newbies around by the nose for hours for basic elements of the game.

We tried locking people in to stuff like race and class trees and it was a miserable slog that involved more waiting for skills to train than trying new builds.

ACE is currently finishing the core system and is gearing up to explode the entire disc and talent system now that designers and engineers are being freed up from core systems.

The changes that exist, most of them, exist for a reason, and for the most part that reason is the feedback of backers, many of them kickstarter backers.

I'm pretty happy with the progress that has been made, and looking forward to the future patches.

Edited by PopeUrban

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We tried the "players build everything even your starting gear" for years and it was a terrible experience for new players, and a terrible experience for server economies and low end PvP. We trie

Having a new player experience is important in such complex games. Being upset over that makes zero sense.

I am trying to accept the game they are developing, but this is not even in the same ballpark as the game I supported on Kickstarter. So are you happy? I am not.  Quest bugs for quests that

26 minutes ago, yieldblue said:

@mivius You're acting like they have completely gone away from what they have promised. Which they have not.

How do you consider promising a pvp-centric game with a 100% player run economy and gear creation, with pve only being for crafting materials, not "completely gone away from what they promised."?  What part of any of that original concept is intact?  Yes, it still has PvP...so what other ideas did they present that they have fufilled?  Because this will require concrete examples, otherwise, you're just making stuff up.

30 minutes ago, yieldblue said:

They were based on internal testing, player feedback and only meant to improve the game play loop.

So you think taking the lazy road for mechanics and reverting to rock-paper-scissors is a good thing?  I not only call it lazy, but disingenuous to the concept they sold us on: they had a better idea for a pvp-centric game, with experience to make that happen.  Reality has been: We've given up on any sort of innovation and have reverted to tired and re-hashed mechanics that have been done to death and back...but 5 years in development so far...

 

32 minutes ago, yieldblue said:

 Obviously, you are stuck on a few concepts (which I consider minor) and you're worried about the current game balance and combat (which is still being flushed out). Sorry, to hear you feel cheated but I do not share your opinion.

Yes, I hold people to their word, and when I've financially supported a concept/idea, I expect that idea to at least be attempted, and it wasn't, and it does not appear to be heading in that direction.  What I am more concerned about it the trajectory I have seen in those 5 years to head further and further away from the idea and ideals they sold us on, and yet already fanboys who haven't delved past this years updates (not you, I see that 16 obv.) trying to defend ideas they are uneducated about.

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12 minutes ago, evilized said:

That you expected but clearly you are off-base. Things will change a lot between now and release - I hope you weren't expecting a release-ready game while you were installing the beta, because that would just be silly.

You see I've been around since 2015 and the kickstarter right? I mean, did you even read anything I wrote, sure seems like an ignorant response if you did...

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1 hour ago, mivius said:

Told no PVE leveling/grinding = Exists AND FORCED to do to change to pvp server - *Special note here, while I keep seeing  "you can get there in 1 - 3 hours", that has not been my experience, grouping has been literally counter-productive, so while this may be true if you are organized, the day to day for someone who isn't, is a vastly different experience.

Told 100% player run economy = Gold drops, not player made, MUST use vendors for things like disciplines in most cases to start

Told No PVE loot drop = PVE loot is generally better than beginner crafting gear AND has stats that you can't put on crafted gear, *there are more issues here, I'm tired of talking about it at this point

Not sure if they never mentioned pve leveling and grinding (honestly the grind isn't even that bad, it only takes you a few hours to hit cap on a white vessel). Without any pve or an incentive to go out in the world and do things people would just log on for sieges. There would be nothing to fight over, there would be no investment. The game would feel more like a call of duty warzone match and less like a living, breathing mmo.

I'm not sure how grouping is counter productive, that's been the fastest way for me personally to max out.

I'm not sure what happened with the gold not being created by the players, I think they just realized that would've been a huge time commitment to implement with limited gain. A lot of the ideas they thought sounded good on paper (like voxels, and a purely passive progression system) turned out to not really be all that great. Hence active progression (talents, etc). This is what usually happens in development.

The pve loot drops were a consequence of gear being too hard to acquire early on, and gear in general being way too important. Crowfall is not based around easy come, easy go. They needed an intermediate tier of gear that players could acquire quickly so they could be competitive, especially with how slow and sluggish passive training is as far as crafting is concerned.

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3 minutes ago, mivius said:

You see I've been around since 2015 and the kickstarter right? I mean, did you even read anything I wrote, sure seems like an ignorant response if you did...

I've been following this game since they first announced it. So far I am very happy with their progress - it is shaping up to be Shadowbane 2.0 just like I had hoped.

 

Are you trying to solo? This is not a solo game. Find a group or guild to join and play the game as it's meant to be played. Not sure how you think grouping is counter productive, I went from level 18 to 30 while grouping in like an hour 2 nights ago with 0 issues.

Edited by evilized
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1 hour ago, mivius said:

Sure, IF that was my only issue, it was just the one he latched onto, here, let's review some of the issues (not a complete list):

Told no quests = quests exist.

They barely exist. You can entirely ignore them and get on with the game. That's what I do when levelling a new character.

1 hour ago, mivius said:

Told no PVE leveling/grinding = Exists AND FORCED to do to change to pvp server - *Special note here, while I keep seeing  "you can get there in 1 - 3 hours", that has not been my experience, grouping has been literally counter-productive, so while this may be true if you are organized, the day to day for someone who isn't, is a vastly different experience.

Yeah. Kinda sucks, but at least it's short. You really can get there in 1 evening of normal play. That's not a lot to ask for an MMO. Would it be better if the levelling process could be skipped? Maybe? I dunno. It's really not worth complaining about though. It's like the intro quests - they're a tiny fraction of the full game experience (admittedly, an important tiny fraction because it's the first thing people do).

1 hour ago, mivius said:

Told 100% player run economy = Gold drops, not player made, MUST use vendors for things like disciplines in most cases to start

Well, gold has to drop from somewhere or there's no currency at all. What, did you want players to mine ore, craft bars and mint it? It's just an item like everything else. The stuff you get from vendors is just the very basic equipment you need to gear your starter vessel so you can play the game. All the stuff that matters requires the player economy and/or crafting - yes, including the disciplines.

1 hour ago, mivius said:

Told No PVE loot drop = PVE loot is generally better than beginner crafting gear AND has stats that you can't put on crafted gear, *there are more issues here, I'm tired of talking about it at this point

I think they're working on balancing crafting and it's getting better. Currently the best 'dropped' loot requires that you go into a PvP zone like infected or dregs and put yourself at risk killing the elite/captain/chief/king NPCs. This drives a lot of PvP content.

 

If those are your major complaints, I'd say you can relax, because most of them are not a factor after a week or two once the game gets going, and the rest (like crafting) are being worked on afaik.

Edited by nihilsupernum
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Am I happy? Yes.

I've finally found a game that has at least the promise of being something LIKE Star Wars Galaxies. The housing and merchant idea alone is something you wont find elsewhere and that makes me happy.

That being said, the game is in Beta. If youve been following this game for any amount of time you should know that they have tested lots of ideas and listened to the players on what to try. Hell, the building system alone has been updated a ton. Obviously we are going to get more quests and things are going to get more fine tubed. Beta can last for a long time. Its during that time that WE the players and testers help guide the developers by commenting in the feedback section o things that are or arent working, as well as giving them ideas and helpful criticism. 

By read your post, you sound overly annoyed and frustrated, which is fine to be, but like others said you seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill. Maybe, respectfully, put the game down for awhile. Go play other games. Get some ideas and bring them back to crowfall. 

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I am not super happy with how Crowfall has developed, but I don't agree with some of OP points either.

The new player experience quest thing was definitely needed IMHO, even if somehow the kickstarter made a prohibition against it. Its not that the game is complex, but rather the UI's and orientable elements aren't very obvious a lot of times. Fooling around with the UI isn't really the core experience of the game (hint: killing players is) so anything that gets people from first log in to killing players, more quickly and painlessly, the better.

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To answer your main question: Yes, I'm happy where Crowfall is going.

It's not perfect and will never be perfect. But, first of all, devs listen to player feedback and make changes accordingly. Secondly, I've been enjoying Crowfall with a few different guilds for more than 4 months from now. Moreover, once I found the guild I really wanna be with I have so much fun in the game. I made so many friends, as well, which is important in the times of isolation and stuff.

Tyrant: you were too tough, they gave up. (10/15/2020)

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1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

We tried the "players build everything even your starting gear" for years and it was a terrible experience for new players, and a terrible experience for server economies and low end PvP.

 

You mean the 100 or so people that played?   It was terrible because they were lazy, and wanted the best gear and not put any of the effort to get it.  When they took away all the good crafting materials from chests and started working on the actual harvesting and crafting they said would be in the game (and you can go back and find my older, yet still relevant failings of their crafting systems, because many of those issues exist in the exact same form as they did then, but that's for somewhere else...)?  Yes, I understand people want it NOW without putting in the work.  So NO, you didn't 'try it',  they put a weak skeletal-frame in alpha, people cried, they caved.

1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

We tried "no leveling" and it led to people hot-rolling whatever the current meta was and a server full of nothing but people trying to reroll scissors after fighting paper once.

 

oh, okay, so please, since multiple people in this thread alone have stated how quick and easy it is to get to cap, and there are plenty of posts how talents and disc are already meta, please , tell me how this makes an appreciable difference, examples will be required, because evidence indicates you are again stating how things are as well, as well as how they always will be when a pvp MMO goes down the path this one is heading. I call BS.

1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

We tried not having a tutorial and it led to leading newbies around by the nose for hours for basic elements of the game.

Best case scenario you are exaggerating.  Can't use a computer and look at the controls? Aren't willing to invest a few minutes, or hours, or days,or more to learn something? You're literally feeding into what I am saying, which makes me unsurprised the devs are taking the lazy routes.  By all means, let's continue to Care Bear it up, right?

If it is true, perhaps they are too stupid to play a PVP MMO? But I mean, we need fodder...

1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

We tried locking people in to stuff like race and class trees and it was a miserable slog that involved more waiting for skills to train than trying new builds.

You do know you still do right?  Can I be a Stoneborn Confessor? no? seems locked to me still huh...and please, no one tries a new build unless something is changed, or some people might test ideas, but mostly, again, I call BS, you make a lot of arguments simply for making arguments it seems to me.

 

1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

ACE is currently finishing the core system and is gearing up to explode the entire disc and talent system now that designers and engineers are being freed up from core systems.

Heard this before, remember when disc's came out and it was going ot be soo ...boring..there was a brief surge of testing, then people settled to their respective metas, just like...now...probably because it's a tired system that lacks creativity and just feeds into existing tropes.  I'll even throw you a bone, it's exceedingly difficult to come up with an entirely new system, but they threw their hands up and gave up and tried to sell us on the shine, which clearly many of you bought hook, line and sinker.

 

1 hour ago, Helix said:

Not sure if they never mentioned pve leveling and grinding (honestly the grind isn't even that bad, it only takes you a few hours to hit cap on a white vessel). Without any pve or an incentive to go out in the world and do things people would just log on for sieges. There would be nothing to fight over, there would be no investment. The game would feel more like a call of duty warzone match and less like a living, breathing mmo.

 

They stated no PVE, no leveling, no grinding (pve), even so, what is going to prevent that now? If you've farmed what you need, unless you're helping a friend or guildie, this is going to be the same pattern most will fall into, and I'm going to use a PVE analogy, it's like leveling and getting to raid in a PVE MMO..you work and scrape and learn to get to the point where you raid, you're excited, hungry, driven...but once you start to enjoy success, it's very difficult to keep that up, the raids become more of a grind, especially as you get BiS, apathy sets in, complacency..and this holds true in PVP as well.  Especially open world PVP...just like here, there will be a flurry of activity to start, but what about a few months in?  Dying worlds was supposed to be the answer, but unless crafted vessels can't transfer, etc, people will get bored. 

The likelihood that 3 factions will stay balanced and competitive is a near statistical impossibility.  And if one team, faction, guild, etc, starts to dominate, then what? Most people don;t mind playing the underdog, but when the systems are the same tired crap over and over, and set to give advantage to those who already have it, look at other MMO's, the attrition is huge, and I assume we all know, it is very very very rare for a playre to return to an MMO once they have departed...and this is already niche, even with them trying to infuse more 'mainstream' MMO ideas.

1 hour ago, Helix said:

The pve loot drops were a consequence of gear being too hard to acquire early on, and gear in general being way too important. Crowfall is not based around easy come, easy go. They needed an intermediate tier of gear that players could acquire quickly so they could be competitive, especially with how slow and sluggish passive training is as far as crafting is concerned.

This was literally the point of the player crafted system, nothing existed that wasn't player made, so there was no, nor should there have been any 'intermediate' tier, unless they implemented it in the crafting system.  What this more-so indicates to me is that they screwed up their crafting & gear system so badly, it required an external patch/fix in the form of pve gear.  Everything could, and IMO should (based on what they sold us on), be player made: from newbie gear to legendary gear, and every sub-step in between.

Do I even need to mention again that dropped gear has stats you can't craft onto those pieces? How about modifiers you can't achieve even under ideal circumstances?

Yes, those who got in/on early, who have knowledge of the system & the VIP training would have the advantage, but not an "I Win" button.  But the dev's couldn;t figure out how to make crafted gear only work?  Simple laziness, or lack of imagination...I have more, but they get insulting from there.

Should I even talk about the craptastic idea of re-rolls on crafting.. I mean, what's the point of a system with variables where you can basically figure out how to max them every time?  And of course, no one sees this as flawed... so why not just let all crafting be 100% successful & automatically at max stats?  Why make me press more buttons because they ran out of decent ideas?

=========================================================

 

I'll be honest, as this thread progresses, the most concerning idea I keep seeing is so many of you getting behind the idea of "Well it's only this one little change, and it's not bad because..." and an excuse follows...so please, let me reintroduce one of my all-time favorite sayings:

 

Excuses are like @-holes, everyone has one, and yours stinks more than most...

 

I do not blindly accept the "small" changes, as they have made the game divergent from what was offered, and your excuses are terrible.

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Then discard my answers. It is clear we have vastly different opinions.

The question asked was "Are you happy?" I answered it.

I'm not here to convince you. I only answered the question asked and gave the reasons that I personally arrived at that answer.

You disagree. Sometimes people don't agree on things and that's fine.

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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19 minutes ago, mivius said:

stuff

Your post has changed from the subject of "are you happy" to "you're wrong because you're not agreeing with me". Lots of things happen in development, and this is the result of that. Game is far from perfect, but as the development progressed they realized some of the things they promised didn't work in reality.

Edited by Helix
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16 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Then discard my answers. It is clear we have vastly different opinions.

The question asked was "Are you happy?" I answered it.

I'm not here to convince you. I only answered the question asked and gave the reasons that I personally arrived at that answer.

You disagree. Sometimes people don't agree on things and that's fine.

I agree, you did answer! And I appreciate that. But I also felt you were trying to convince me based on your experience, as if I had not played during those times, and I have, and I felt your blurbs were inaccurate and based on conjecture, and I explained why I felt that way.

We can agree to disagree.

 

8 minutes ago, Helix said:

Your post has changed from the subject of "are you happy" to "you're wrong because you're not agreeing with me". Lots of things happen in development, and this is the result of that. Game is far from perfect, but as the development progressed they realized some of the things they promised didn't work in reality.

Which you didn't answer. 

You stated you "didn't know" about things I am certain about, and you made excuses for their changes, when those excuses hold no water (ie: they do not need intermediate pve gear drops, the issue COULD be addressed fully through player crafting) because it is counter to the ideas and ideals they stated the game would be based upon. IE they lied.

9 minutes ago, evilized said:

OP go fly a kite. You're obviously just here to argue and don't want any actual feedback from the community.

Okay?  I've had halfwits like you try to make excuses for dev's and tell me why my experiences and opinions aren't correct, yet act like hurt little babies when I counter and I'm not bowing to your flawed logic, and likewise point out why your arguments are generally wrong (like people countering facts with opinions), straw man arguments, etc, to which I generally get the sort of responses as above...no productive counterpoints (except Pope), just "You bad, go away" style logic, because, again, all most of you have is an opinion which is not in line with the facts... but people can't converse, again, see above...any resistance is met with open hostility, as you displayed...

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The core was always a PVP,  action based game played within limited time campaigns with unique rule sets, unique maps and Eternal Kingdom that persist through it all. They have completely fulfilled all that and then some. How is this not a PVP-centric game? Everything in this game is focused on direct PVP mechanics,  mechanics that encourage or rewards PVP, or gearing and/or leveling up to either participate or support PVP efforts. Even the PVE aspects you are so admittedly against is a driving force in PVP.  PVE Mobs allow new players to get exp to level, gain familiarity with and low tier gear for a character before jumping in blind and unprepared for PVP. Higher tier gear from mobs requires more players and often become PVP hot spots. The divine favor card scoring system that changes with each season within a campaign is brilliant. It allows for some really cool dynamic game play that not only gives guilds and/or alliances ways to catch up but also can completely change the goals with each season. Some cards can turn PVE Mob spawns into PVP hot spots by giving campaign points to players that sacrifice their unique drops. So yeah, PVP focused? Check. Campaigns with variable times, unique rules set and maps? All in game and working, check. Persistent customizable Eternal Kingdoms? In game, functioning (memory leak bug ATM), check. Granted its still beta and things are still being iterated upon but they are heading in the exacted direction they pitched in kick starter not the "not even in the ball park" as you stated.  I will give you one thing. They did push in the kick starter that they would implement a fully destructible world where you could dig tunnels under walls and what not. While there is some destruction it is no where near that level.

You keep saying that they have a rock-paper-scissors mechanic. Not really sure where you are getting that from. Everything I have seen from them has been nothing of the sort. The Discipline system (another great addition not part of their original pitch) has always been about giving the players the ability to customize the way they play. Sure there is BIS, there always will be, but again this is still beta and there are still a bunch of balance changes to be made before and after launch. Not to mention that they have also always preached that they are not balancing for one vs. one but for dynamic group vs. group. This is a far more innovative build customization system than 90% of mmos out there. So yea, going out there solo with a tank build hoping to one v one anything isn't going to work out for ya.

I completely understand holding companies accountable to the pitch they sell you. Critically evaluating the changes and reasons for the changes needs to be a part of that. Any reasonable person knows that changes are inevitable. Its how the company decides on, communicates and implements these change that matter. In an industry with so many anti-consumer practices it is easy to get angry and point fingers. One quick look at Camelot Unchained and you'll see a company that is no way near releasing their kick started game, who has never been good at communicating with their backers and who has literally release a beta for another game entirely.  ACE, from day one, has been and continues to be exemplary with their communication to their backers. While you may not agree with the direction they took on every aspect, it was through testing and feedback from the backer that these changes have been made. If you're not enjoying the BETA I would recommend you stop playing, give your constructive feedback to ACE and wait until the actual release before giving your final judgement.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, yieldblue said:

The core was always a PVP,  action based game played within limited time campaigns with unique rule sets, unique maps and Eternal Kingdom that persist through it all. They have completely fulfilled all that and then some. How is this not a PVP-centric game? Everything in this game is focused on direct PVP mechanics,  mechanics that encourage or rewards PVP, or gearing and/or leveling up to either participate or support PVP efforts. Even the PVE aspects you are so admittedly against is a driving force in PVP.  PVE Mobs allow new players to get exp to level, gain familiarity with and low tier gear for a character before jumping in blind and unprepared for PVP. Higher tier gear from mobs requires more players and often become PVP hot spots. The divine favor card scoring system that changes with each season within a campaign is brilliant. It allows for some really cool dynamic game play that not only gives guilds and/or alliances ways to catch up but also can completely change the goals with each season. Some cards can turn PVE Mob spawns into PVP hot spots by giving campaign points to players that sacrifice their unique drops. So yeah, PVP focused? Check. Campaigns with variable times, unique rules set and maps? All in game and working, check. Persistent customizable Eternal Kingdoms? In game, functioning (memory leak bug ATM), check. Granted its still beta and things are still being iterated upon but they are heading in the exacted direction they pitched in kick starter not the "not even in the ball park" as you stated.  I will give you one thing. They did push in the kick starter that they would implement a fully destructible world where you could dig tunnels under walls and what not. While there is some destruction it is no where near that level.

You keep saying that they have a rock-paper-scissors mechanic. Not really sure where you are getting that from. Everything I have seen from them has been nothing of the sort. The Discipline system (another great addition not part of their original pitch) has always been about giving the players the ability to customize the way they play. Sure there is BIS, there always will be, but again this is still beta and there are still a bunch of balance changes to be made before and after launch. Not to mention that they have also always preached that they are not balancing for one vs. one but for dynamic group vs. group. This is a far more innovative build customization system than 90% of mmos out there. So yea, going out there solo with a tank build hoping to one v one anything isn't going to work out for ya.

I completely understand holding companies accountable to the pitch they sell you. Critically evaluating the changes and reasons for the changes needs to be a part of that. Any reasonable person knows that changes are inevitable. Its how the company decides on, communicates and implements these change that matter. In an industry with so many anti-consumer practices it is easy to get angry and point fingers. One quick look at Camelot Unchained and you'll see a company that is no way near releasing their kick started game, who has never been good at communicating with their backers and who has literally release a beta for another game entirely.  ACE, from day one, has been and continues to be exemplary with their communication to their backers. While you may not agree with the direction they took on every aspect, it was through testing and feedback from the backer that these changes have been made. If you're not enjoying the BETA I would recommend you stop playing, give your constructive feedback to ACE and wait until the actual release before giving your final judgement.

 

 

I disagree with almost everything you say.

- Rulesets aren't unique, their modifications of other games/styles

-Eternal kingdom is a glorified housing zone, ya, it's nice to have, but doesn't make or break the game for me, and if other MMO's with housing are any indicator, it's along those lines for the majority of players.

- Your descriptions of PVE scream CARE BEAR, CARE BEAR ,CARE BEAR, and are exactly what many early backers were afraid of, but that train is rolling through full steam now.

- The discipline system is again a modification and/or conglomeration of existing ideas, and the implementation lead to further FoTM/Meta-ing that favors large groups who have people who will min/max test and leave those who can't or won't at a distinct disadvanatage, and since you worry about people being:

45 minutes ago, yieldblue said:

 unprepared for PVP.

...this needs to be included too, I mean, shouldn't we have training videos, in-game classes in "safe spaces" with personalized tutorials, and someone there so you can cry on their shoulder when the 'bad people' give them 'boo-boo's'??  Because we wouldn't want them "unprepared for pvp".

You make a lot of excuses, and give credit where none is due.  Your opinion on what I should do is irrelevant. 

I am glad it's going to make a bunch of Care Bears happy with their "pvp-light", I am, I just have grown tired of being promised a pvp game, and getting..well, whatever you want to call what this is becoming...

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Actually, let me comment on what it's becoming...it's becoming a run of the mill MMO where PVP will become a secondary consideration, which it's already heading in that direction.

It starts with the little things, an excuse why a little PvE is acceptable, even though it erodes the PVP-Gather-Craft triangle that everything was to be built on...a little pve, a little pve drops, a little gold drop...a little questing...

Just like an hour glass, each small concession is a grain of sand, itself inconsequential, but over time, the accumulation grows into something much ...more..

And that's all I've seen here, it's why I'm not happy, call it death by 1000 cuts..

Call me the fool then, I believed.  But I've seen this all before, I am okay with changes in development, but the lazy concessions are a slippery slope we will never recover from.  Again, prime example, there is no call at all for pve drops, it absolutely could have been addressed in a more robust crafting system, but it feels like they all but gave up on crafting too. 

I'm just gonna stop there...

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1 minute ago, mivius said:

It starts with the little things, an excuse why a little PvE is acceptable, even though it erodes the PVP-Gather-Craft triangle that everything was to be built on...a little pve, a little pve drops, a little gold drop...a little questing...

I don't understand what you're on about. What's your problem with gold? Do you want everything to work on some kind of barter economy? 3 mushrooms for a chicken? 10 chickens for a breastplate?

It's nice when there is something for people to fight over. It feels more satisfying when you fight a group (pvp) and get to take the stuff they farmed (pve). It feels more meaningful.

As for drops, how do you expect people to be able to compete? How are they going to claw their way up from nothing if they have no gear and no assets? The purchasable basics  and npc drops allow new players to sort-of gear up so that they can play the game at least a little bit. That's good!

.. but you seem to disagree. Please do describe what you think the game ought to be like.

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we have tried campaigns with and without wartribe drops, the game is much better with them especially for new players, if you wanted a say in the matter you should have been there for the tests last year, there were detractors then and the pros have always outweighed the cons especially since the drops were nerfed hard to make crafting more competitive

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