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When will ACE nerf slayers?


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it's just frustrating to be ganked by a slayer most classes don't stand a chance against it i think everyone agrees that the pepperbox shot CD is too low i feel bad when im playing slayer its just too easy i wonder how new players feel when they get destroyed by a slayer

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  • 2 weeks later...

I much rather see other classes receive buffs and brought up to par than a "complete" feeling class getting nerfed to the ground. Their kit feels well thought out compared to many classes/specs in the game. They're fun to play, infuriating to play against but I can't play one personally, I just can't rat I suppose. That being said, I'd much rather ACE give love to the entire Assassin class, as well as all the many underperforming specs before they butcher the Slayer. That's the hard route and MMO developers NEVER head down that path, too complicated apparently. I imagine they will receive some adjustments as they dive deeper into tuning passes. I could see them toying the idea of removing the free dodge pip on Q.

Edited by Mephs
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thats correct

buff

assassins

dps knights

dps templars

mdps rangers

to be be the equals of anything guinea, mino, and half giant

there is a very large damage differential right now

 

when shadowbane was released, these devs ninja nerfed assassins.

right up until release assasains had gm assassin only weapon powers,  that could be used with any euipable weapon.

suddenly on release, without ever testing, those powers were removed and only powers associated with weapons could be used from rnk 5 to 40 depending on the weapon selected.

im mentioning this because i do not want see this repeated.

kerp guineas as is and buff the other physical dps mentioned above.

 

Edited by Gwaehir
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the problem in balance here is what class balance will be different once you get very deep in crow tree lvling and also get access to quality crafted things.

different mean if devs did not touch anything, ~6 month later there will be other OP classes.

 

slayer is a best example here coz on start with bad gear he can selfbuff for almost capped crit and very huge (over 180%) crit damage. with some majors he can also be close to AP cap. and with some builds he can boost also dmg bonus. this mean everything for range dps.

if we speak about current slayer, so slighly nerfs for sure required:

1) redirect pain: retribution should be with 5 pips not more than 15-20%. full power of redirect pain should get tanly version of slayer - dirge.

2) revert back max amount of target from 5 to 3 to pepperbox shot

3) fix on 4-shots from rapid fire with 1 pip

4) reduce bonus dmg to pepperbox shot from slayer passive

 

ps. I do not speak atm about CC promo of duelist. only about slayer

 

if we are talking about whole archetype, I think duelist should be nerfed in terms of amount of mechanics access. duelist have access:

1) double jump (aka parkour) which is OP anytime anywhere

2) full bonus to pig runs

3) one of the best harvesting stats

4) possibility to pass walls (tunnel)

5) no need to food coz of pips (also less hungry)

6) stealth

 

ontop of this he have the same HP, same or even more some stats etc. ofc ppl will take it for ganks. to fix it I think other races should get access to better experience on some game mechanics also

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

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6 hours ago, Gwaehir said:

buff

assassins

dps knights

dps templars

mdps rangers

you are very wrong here. try out some guild gameplay. this game is not focused on solo gameplay.

all you listed are very viable for group pvp.

except assassins (they will shine later with better gear, not all sin promos ofc but still) and dps templars are looks like broken atm.

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

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baswd on what ive experienced if fighting other classes and playing the classes of contention, 

assassin are worthless atm

templars have terrible resource generation and hit nowhere near what pitfighter archetypes or mymidon archtypes hit for, let alone have the insane sustain they have.

dps knights

i like the class but again their output is nowhere near any class a half giant

or mino can promote to.

melee ranger? again not the same output

and im referring to white vessels

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10 hours ago, makkon said:

the problem in balance here is what class balance will be different once you get very deep in crow tree lvling and also get access to quality crafted things.

different mean if devs did not touch anything, ~6 month later there will be other OP classes.

It doesn't have to be like this!

It is entirely possible to design the classes & passives in such a way that they start at approximately the same power level and reach approximately the same power levels at end game.

If a class is strong early game and weak late game, that means the devs need to take some of its power away from talents and put it into things that scale better (eg. weapon damage multipliers).

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1 hour ago, OZKAN said:

Rats everywhere , plague spreads.

if you have a group of 5 ppl with decent setup you can poop on slayers.

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

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12 hours ago, Gwaehir said:

baswd on what ive experienced if fighting other classes and playing the classes of contention, 

assassin are worthless atm

templars have terrible resource generation and hit nowhere near what pitfighter archetypes or mymidon archtypes hit for, let alone have the insane sustain they have.

dps knights

i like the class but again their output is nowhere near any class a half giant

or mino can promote to.

melee ranger? again not the same output

and im referring to white vessels

But is experienced based on 1v1 or actual group fights?

 

They wont balance around small numbers like 1v1 2v2 etc.

They look at the bigger picture, and in larger numbers all expect assassins have a spot, it's not all about damage.

I dont know which melee ranger you are referring to, Warden? That is a tanky/control version, they are not made to bring dmg. Brigand? They have a lot of dmg if you land your traps.

 

To stay on the topic, slayers are great gankers yes, also quite decent for group fights, but when you fight over objectives etc I would say they are quite balanced.

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55 minutes ago, Gwaehir said:

brigand-- prob is they are visable traps  so not so trap like

but if you fight in blob zerk who cares about trap visability? all you need is put it inside most of the enemies groups. isnt it?

as a small scale or solo roaming yes, previous iteration of brigants was quite strong (knife grinder, invisible traps if I remember right and such)

but brigant is unique - range, strong melee dmg, CC, aoe dmg, decent sustain in most of situations, stealth. all he lack is mobility. but once he get mobility it will be OP. no?

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

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i dint get to pay the brigand in that state-- but it sounds like the previous version was working as intended as was a much better fighter than this version.

the biggest point i trying to make is that of attrition.  Yes in group senarius when you have ideal comps anything is possible and  can help to mitigate class shortcomings.

However when I look at my damage output lets say on a brigand  where I hit for 1300, 600, 350, 750  but in return im getting hit for 1500, 1500, 1500, 900, 2000 then something is of out sorts and you will jsut plain lose the attrition war.  And to make make matters worse those classes that are hitting you back for higher number have really good, healer-like sustain. as well.

Im sure there will be adjustments made in the future, but in this build there are certain race/class combinations for melee dps that are not close, but well above other melees.

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They could do without the double jump.  Give that to the Wood Elf.  Doesn't make much sense that a burrowing critter would be doing acrobatics anyways.

 

Really, the only one it makes sense for is the one with wings (Fae).  Unless they come up with some spectral race that has good mitigation and can float a bit like the Fae, I'd be fine leaving double jump with the Fae alone.

Edited by goqua
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I think they should do a minor nerf atm to them and turn stun of pepper shot into a suppress or slow and see how that plays out, i dont think ranged attacks should get a hard CC especially the low CD AoE ranged attacks

As for melee rangers i just love doing 100-150dmg hit with my warden (Think the very first dagger spin hits for a llittle over 200 on one target but after that non of your attacks but jab will do more than 200 even when they crit) :P tickling the enemies slowly to death :P you might be ohh there a tank class but no there not there tankiness relies on the life steal which is non existent when you do basicly 0 dmg to lifesteal with even with 90 dmg weapon. effectivly there less dmg, less self sustain, less hard CC (they got none)and lower HP than every other defence class.

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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10 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

It's not the double jump. It's everything. Look at this poorly made dergs. Just look at it!

Ranged aoe stun every 3 seconds!

More damage than a melee dps but at range!

You got him to ~30% with an assassin that needs love more then any other class overall in comparison to a class that is on the other end of the spectrum.

Despite no liking 1v1 comparisons in a team game, they hit the ceiling in several main stats in a starter vessel/gear compared to others. Same goes for some other classes and why they are chosen over others.

Slayer firing rate could be slowed a bit, but their whole deal is buffing to the max and bursting someone down. If they get caught, they die just like anything else.

My suggestion is they have a cooldown down on pepperbox similar to radical searing light. Can only get CC every X seconds from the same slayer, but that slayer can still CC multiple characters if they are in group fights. IMO this is how CC should work for several powers to keep classes viable in group play, but not OP in solo/smaller play where a Slayer can CC 5 players over and over.

1st Assassin and several promos need attention, then look at potentially nerfing ones too strong.

 

 

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6 hours ago, APE said:

You got him to ~30% with an assassin that needs love more then any other class overall in comparison to a class that is on the other end of the spectrum.

Eh. Not really though because I used my (only) ult, and they still have 2 ults available, so they can just bomb & dodge & kite farther. Meanwhile I'm out of dodges and stamina. I lost that engagement on the second stun, really. The 3rd,4th and 5th stuns were just excessive. I would have actually tried to ult and escape except assassin ult does not work in combat.

6 hours ago, APE said:

Despite no liking 1v1 comparisons in a team game, they hit the ceiling in several main stats in a starter vessel/gear compared to others. Same goes for some other classes and why they are chosen over others.

And I hate this design. There is absolutely no reason why classes and abilities can't be designed in such a way that they start at the same power level and scale at the same rates. That would be ideal! You don't want a situation where everyone is running around on slayers and titans at the start of the game and some other class once they gear up. You want a healthy balanced class distribution throughout the game.

6 hours ago, APE said:

My suggestion is they have a cooldown down on pepperbox similar to radical searing light. Can only get CC every X seconds from the same slayer, but that slayer can still CC multiple characters if they are in group fights. IMO this is how CC should work for several powers to keep classes viable in group play, but not OP in solo/smaller play where a Slayer can CC 5 players over and over.

So, assassin's Kidney Shot is a single-target melee stun that consumes pips. That is on a 20 second cooldown. Given that, what should slayer's ranged aoe stun cooldown be? 25? 30?

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5 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

Eh. Not really though because I used my (only) ult, and they still have 2 ults available, so they can just bomb & dodge & kite farther. Meanwhile I'm out of dodges and stamina. I lost that engagement on the second stun, really. The 3rd,4th and 5th stuns were just excessive. I would have actually tried to ult and escape except assassin ult does not work in combat.

Sin ult working would of been helpful, but still it isn't going to work balancing around 1v1. Every class needs to have strengths and weaknesses. Some swing way too far one way or another.

Quote

And I hate this design. There is absolutely no reason why classes and abilities can't be designed in such a way that they start at the same power level and scale at the same rates. That would be ideal! You don't want a situation where everyone is running around on slayers and titans at the start of the game and some other class once they gear up. You want a healthy balanced class distribution throughout the game.

Totally agree. Which is why I believe class design as a whole needs some work, not whack a mole nerf/buff individual things without factoring in everything.

Quote

So, assassin's Kidney Shot is a single-target melee stun that consumes pips. That is on a 20 second cooldown. Given that, what should slayer's ranged aoe stun cooldown be? 25? 30?

5 sec? I don't know but you can't cherry pick 1:1 compare classes/promos/powers. Assassins ideally should put out more burst then a slayer/duelist IMO. I believe both classes need a pass as duelist is very one dimensional where changing pepperbox or their firing rate/LMB damage would impact them quite a lot. If they don't have PB, what do they have? Assassin at least has access to different toxins and other powers that potentially can do something in a fight. In theory Sin's promos have more potential then Duelist. They just aren't great currently individually or as a package.

Assassin had its time where it was a lot more viable, guessing you missed that period. Unfortunately we have to wait for them to get around to tweaking things and in the meantime some choices are simply going to be at a disadvantage in particular matchups, team comps, or entirely. Vanguard Scouts giving you any trouble lately?

Nerfing Slayer isn't going to make Assassin or any class better. It's just going to make Slayer worse. Lets not have a race to who can reach the bottom first. Look at Frostweaver.

Edited by APE
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