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Main issue of this game summarized.


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They poorly made dergs the bed on every aspect of this game because they have no direction or publisher forcing them to do a better job along with consequences. The game is not fun at any stage and the game feels like an after school developer made game. There are so many fundemental problems with the game that even with all the other terrible designs and mechanics(like ZvZ) that even if they somehow fix the core game, it still won't be fun.

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Kira summarized the issue with this game very well.  The game is in a tough spot it its current state and vision.  Unfortunately a "fix" is not easy at this point.      

Optimization is the worst he's ever seen. 60-70 FPS with really good comp with no one on screen and settings on low - if he increases settings, performance is unacceptable Large fights "

yes. Lets tell the devs how amazing the game is and cheer lead it forever. I see no problems with that whatsoever.    I remember all the people who went "its in prealpha bro wait for al

I understand you are writing these generalised critics (e.g. "animations are bad") because you want to grab developers attention to change the game in the direction you like. But please keep in mind if you don't do it constructively, ACE will look through it and move to the next topic before figuring out your concerns. Telling you as a developer myself.

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4 hours ago, mystafyi said:

Honestly, this is the type of work you would expect from a team of 6 people over 5+ years of development. The other day I linked a video of a solo dev developing an mmorpg by himself in unity and it looks to be only slightly behind Crowfall. 

Project Gorgon -- believe has been in development for about a year or so less than CF. Ultimately has two developers. I get that it is not a graphical powerhouse, and is strictly PVE, but the breadth and depth of the overall game/experience is pretty amazing considering their lack of an official team.

To me -- the bulk of CF's problems/issues lies in the details and certain mechanics...and overall performance. The baseline core/framework is more or less done. But there are some glaring issues within CF that would guarantee a failure within months on release if they are not addressed properly. Sadly, ACE is in the final stretch to get the game to market/release. They're now picking the top priority issues prior to release, and then patch other issues after. It does "make sense" on a modern gaming level, and they believe if they constantly keep adding/changing the game will never release. 

But it seems that the modern gaming market is getting used to putting out 80-90% complete games, and then fixing it once they get a cash infusion/revenue stream. By and large -- this wasn't the case until about a little over a decade ago. And definitely not the case prior to mass internet connectivity to update/patch games. However, on releasing incomplete games -- most players will judge a game based on their initial few hours to a few days.

And say what you want about no-name reviewers -- they do have a massive affect. Currently CF has the slight protection of being in "beta," but that ultimately means that most of what you're seeing is what will be released. Their goals at this point are improving performance, class skills/balance, and a very minor tweaking of the passive skill tree (ie. skill "time" tomes). They MAY address a ZvZ issue, because if they don't -- it will be a detriment to the possibility of the games success after launch.

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8 hours ago, mystafyi said:

I am not in software design, but like most everything else, the devil is in the details and loose ends/finish always takes alot longer then planned. Ace has about 50-60 employees, they have raised 27.4 million, not including presales of the game and other cash shop/backer purchases over the past 6+ years. This also does not include the 1.5 million grant they got from coronavirus bailout. I am pretty confident they are close to 40 mil, which is not a small amount. Honestly, this is the type of work you would expect from a team of 6 people over 5+ years of development. The other day I linked a video of a solo dev developing an mmorpg by himself in unity and it looks to be only slightly behind Crowfall. 

50 - 60 in fulltime? Or 50 - 60 different ppl incl. externals who had a hand on it from 2014 to now?

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3 hours ago, Simonic said:

However, on releasing incomplete games -- most players will judge a game based on their initial few hours to a few days.

Sadly it´s very hard to make up for a bad first impression. Pre Beta this was the buggy launcher, now it´s the char editor. In game it´s the UI with the always open windows, but the hidden action bar when you want to add items from the inventory. Or the bank with complete bogus filters and a search that breaks it completely. 

It´s like someone vacuumed the carpet, left stripes everywhere and forgot twenty percent of the area. Would you hire that guy again?

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8 minutes ago, DoomYa said:

It´s like someone vacuumed the carpet, left stripes everywhere and forgot twenty percent of the area. Would you hire that guy again?

Is he still vacuuming the carpet?

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1 hour ago, DoomYa said:

50 - 60 in fulltime? Or 50 - 60 different ppl incl. externals who had a hand on it from 2014 to now?

I am pretty sure they had around 30 in 2017 and scaled up to 50ish employee's in 2018. IIRC ACE listed 63 jobs saved when applying for 1.5million PPP taxpayer gift. 

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4 hours ago, Simonic said:

But it seems that the modern gaming market is getting used to putting out 80-90% complete games, and then fixing it once they get a cash infusion/revenue stream. By and large -- this wasn't the case until about a little over a decade ago. And definitely not the case prior to mass internet connectivity to update/patch games. 

This struck me as funny. 'modern gaming market'... I remember playing games on 1200 baud connections. Before that there was simply no internet based games and the market consisted mainly of console's with games on ROM's in a cartridge. There was no real ability to update.

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3 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

Before that there was simply no internet based games and the market consisted mainly of console's with games on ROM's in a cartridge. There was no real ability to update.

Exactly. What you bought is what you got. Games had to basically be 100% ready to be released. They couldn't release a "completed product" at 80% completion. 

The ability to update games is definitely a huge benefit for both companies and consumers/gamers. However, it also has led to quite a few gaming studios to ship games not at 100% because they can simply update/patch it in the future. So, many can release an 80% product completion and then speak up adding updates/features in the coming months/years that technically should have been in the game at release. That is why I deem it the "modern gaming market."

In many aspects, I believe this was the eventual result of larger studios falling victim to their investors/parent companies. Who have now seen it work in action for years, and may fail to see the importance of shipping games 100% completed. The investors want to see a profit sooner rather than later. Regardless of the possibility that if the game stayed in production for another 6-12 months may net a higher profit over the lifespan of the game due to simply being of higher quality. As opposed to releasing a "mostly complete" game with patches to follow -- which may have turned off the initial/subsequent buyers/crowds.

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On 8/22/2020 at 12:07 PM, makkon said:

for a niche game which is different whan most of the regular project - yes.

coz all reviews are based on comparing to other games which is no point.

the problem of niche games is what they have a lack of quality but usually a decent ideas in core mechanics.

It is hard to not make comparisons to what's out there because products don't exist on an island. Saying the FPS is trash doesn't need something compare to. The guys points were valid individually or compared to any other game.

JTC seems to bring up WoW whenever saying Crowfall isn't going to be huge or have XYZ features. That is so obvious that it seems silly to even make the comparison. I highly doubt any of us expect Crowfall to pull in millions of players or have endless features. 

However, niche games don't have to have low quality. If anything, they should have higher quality because they have less features and things to worry about. Quality vs Quantity. If a game has neither, why does it even exist?

ACE said they would make a fun game in less time, with less money, and with a smaller team. I didn't expect the result to be low quality just because it is "niche." I expected it to have fewer features and provide game play that fewer people would enjoy it.

I hope more reviewers, especially more popular, try out Crowfall and give honest feedback.

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all those reviews are about empty world and fps/performance overall. and about NPA. if you goes deeper you will also notice alot of bugs - yes. but no fking single review about core mechanics like a fully based on cooperation between players which is rare in modern MMRPG right now.

Core mechanics or concepts sounding great don't hold much value when a game runs like crap and is likely close to launch despite so much work needed.

"Guys guys guys, forget about the 10 FPS and all the bugs, we get to fight over buildings and take people's ore and trash PVE loot!"

Several other games have siege, conquest, open world PVP, instanced PVP, more character diversity and building, way better PVE, etc etc. Crowfall isn't reinventing the wheel or doing any one thing better then others to excuse away flaws.

Albion Online offers much of what Crowfall does and is a more complete and quality product. Also a Unity game.

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for me all those reviewers/streamers are just a regular trash guyz. not an authoritative opinion. but I can't say for others

Those people are just giving their opinion from their experience, be it for views or whatever else. They are no more right or wrong then anyone else unless they are purposely providing false information. As I mentioned previously, if this guy actually said something that wasn't true, what was it? Having a different opinion or experience doesn't mean they are wrong.

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6 hours ago, IsilithTehroth said:

They poorly made dergs the bed on every aspect of this game because they have no direction or publisher forcing them to do a better job along with consequences. 

That was supposed to be the communities job :). Somewhere along the line it went from "make sure they do a good job" to "dont make the game look bad".

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1 hour ago, Jah said:

Is he still vacuuming the carpet?

He hired 59 other carpet cleaners and turned my carpet into a vintage frazzle. I have parquet flooring now. 

GvTm2yj.gif

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1 hour ago, mystafyi said:

This struck me as funny. 'modern gaming market'... I remember playing games on 1200 baud connections. Before that there was simply no internet based games and the market consisted mainly of console's with games on ROM's in a cartridge. There was no real ability to update.

Bugs on the CD? Game lost.

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Bottom line it's NOT a beta -- it's the beginning of a fairly well-developed platform for an interesting game but it's not really playable yet in a form that feels fun; call it what it is. Beta means basically finished just needs polishing and balancing plus bug-smashing before it's "done" -- LOL

for context, I'm an early backer that recognizes how far it has come, but by calling this a beta they are losing out on all the people that might try it out expecting it to actually be one...

... and for further context I don't really have the terrible issues with performance -- just with all the other things he mentions and the general issue of "fun-ness"

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38 minutes ago, Marth said:

That was supposed to be the communities job :). Somewhere along the line it went from "make sure they do a good job" to "dont make the game look bad".

You can´t let a community lead the direction. Do you have democracy at your job? Or real democracy in your country? No, because it doesn´t work. People will always choose what will benefit them in the short sight. In most cases that will be boring on day three.
Best they can give us is to choose one of their options. Todd is old enough and clever - he knows this.

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Interface. You open different UIs and press ESC to close them. In Crowfall they only get hided and when you want to interact with some new you have tike 10 Interfaces from the last time you opened something stacked... 

Please make ESC closing interface! closing them and not hiding them... Or give us the option for it. This is still day 1 annoying.

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