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shmilbick

Ranger Is A Range Dps, Or A Specialist ?

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Presently on emu, there's no reason to even play a scout.  The job can be replaced with bounty hunter because of nerfs to the promotion.  The age of scoutbane is dead.  Long live the dagger thieves.

 

Though Vampire Scouts are still played because of summon rune.

That game isn't even SB, it is an abomination. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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rather leery of this specialist role.  seems not unlikely to be pigeonholed utility moniker.  have a sense they're not going to contribute to dropping any enemy group outside utilizing tactics afforded to own group by their specialized abilities.

 

ie gerbils tunneling to allow dps archetypes to get under walls (past choke points) for surprise attacks.  not much reason for them post wall breach and  wouldnt want many in the group.

 

I'm pretty sure the specialist roles will be able to hold their own in combat with the roles most similar to them. I think it may be more of a choice of do I want to buy the slightly more expensive (more skill points to buy) guy who has this ability/extra (insert stat here) built in or do I want to buy the cheaper one (and have more points to increase my stats without taking a bunch of disadvantages) potentially having to sacrifice a discipline for this ability. I'm pretty sure they will all be useful "after the breach" plus if duelists dig (which makes sense) then it may be great to have four or five because you could split up the defense and potentially cause the defenders to overlook one breach. I wouldn't underestimate the power of utility. In games like League and Starcraft utility is often put above a little extra damage. This especially goes for league where most top tier champions are not the ones with "the most damage" but the ones that have a ton of utility to allow them to avoid deaths and set up kills while protecting the other champions on the team.

This is, of course, assuming the specialist roles have some special utility no other role gets stock which as of now we have no confirmation of, even with a lot of evidence in support of this.

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I'm pretty sure the specialist roles will be able to hold their own in combat with the roles most similar to them. I think it may be more of a choice of do I want to buy the slightly more expensive (more skill points to buy) guy who has this ability/extra (insert stat here) built in or do I want to buy the cheaper one (and have more points to increase my stats without taking a bunch of disadvantages) potentially having to sacrifice a discipline for this ability. I'm pretty sure they will all be useful "after the breach" plus if duelists dig (which makes sense) then it may be great to have four or five because you could split up the defense and potentially cause the defenders to overlook one breach. I wouldn't underestimate the power of utility. In games like League and Starcraft utility is often put above a little extra damage. This especially goes for league where most top tier champions are not the ones with "the most damage" but the ones that have a ton of utility to allow them to avoid deaths and set up kills while protecting the other champions on the team.

This is, of course, assuming the specialist roles have some special utility no other role gets stock which as of now we have no confirmation of, even with a lot of evidence in support of this.

From everything we have seen, specialists get skills only available to them. The Duelist is the only one with a shovel, the only class to be capable of digging. The Ranger and Assassin both have a mask, they will be the ones that are capable of stealthing (how stealth works we do not know, meaning very short duration yet usable in combat or long duration with no in combat use...it'll be one or the other). Good chance that Ranger will be trap based while Assassin will be more focused on the stealth mechanic.


"Lawful Good does not always mean Lawful Nice."

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From everything we have seen, specialists get skills only available to them. The Duelist is the only one with a shovel, the only class to be capable of digging. The Ranger and Assassin both have a mask, they will be the ones that are capable of stealthing (how stealth works we do not know, meaning very short duration yet usable in combat or long duration with no in combat use...it'll be one or the other). Good chance that Ranger will be trap based while Assassin will be more focused on the stealth mechanic.

 

How did you come to the conclusion that specializing in digging meant depriving all other classes of the digging ability?


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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I do believe they mentioned that only the badgermole people will be able to burrow into the ground. What that exactly entails is unknown. We also dont know if the player will be able to dig an actual hole for the purposes of mining, sapping or getting past defenses.

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I think we should focus on the narrative when talking about the "role" of a character.  The Ranger could easily have stealth, but I think he might be more of an upkeep character.  Survival and attrition will be their biggest strength.

 

 

They save the weakened (Crippled players), kill the Hunger haunted (Players converted to Ghouls), and burn the yet to be Hunger haunted (Corpses).

 

This concept art also displays something we can expect from these Rangers.  He's carrying our injured Druid here.  Rangers are Crowfalls' firefighters, they rescue allies.

 

-snipped image-

 

Crud I just realized he's talking about Thralls, they are the ones too stubborn, too dumb, and too weak to leave.  Curses.

 

I still wish Rangers were rescue heroes though, I want firefighters (Fields medics).

Edited by sneaky_squirrel

How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Or they could be survival specialists... A mix of Bear Grylls with Aragorn. I don't know. I remember ACE discussing how the environment and the Hunger level could influence the game and the players characters. Like decreasing health according to the Hunger spreading over the campaign. Maybe they are going to be more resistant to the Hunger and the winter cold effect, maybe the rangers are going to be a specilists in digging resources or food, not combat like the Fae Assassin and the duelist rabbit, more support like.


"fire made flesh"

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✣Wildfire Brotherhood✣

 

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Or they could be survival specialists... A mix of Bear Grylls with Aragorn. I don't know. I remember ACE discussing how the environment and the Hunger level could influence the game and the players characters. Like decreasing health according to the Hunger spreading over the campaign. Maybe they are going to be more resistant to the Hunger and the winter cold effect, maybe the rangers are going to be a specilists in digging resources or food, not combat like the Fae Assassin and the duelist rabbit, more support like.

I like this idea, though Aragorn is more of a survivalist than Bear Grylls, but anyway, rangers are obviously the only class smart enough to bring a cloak and heavy clothing to combat winter. Now I say this like "well why wouldnt you bring warm cloths" Well the heroes are eternal, so being cold is irrelevant, even if they "die" of exposure they will simply come back. 

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Ranger just got a little more interesting.....


Sneak home and pray you'll never know the hell where youth and laughter go.

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Well, going by what they provide in the narratives of both classes, this is what I can extrapolate:

 

  • The Ranger has very little narrative indicators of what the devs have planned for the rangers skill and ability design. The narrative is essentially discussing the lore role of the Rangers (or Warders).
  • Only thing I can find in terms of hints at their abilities is the mention of "sword" (suggesting some moderate to high melee capability).
  • The narrative also suggests that the ranger class is heavily based on mobility, describing them as wanderers and travelers, suggesting that they are meant to be highly mobile over long distances with excellent survival capabilities.
  • From the picture, we know that they will have ranged-archery abilities, and are prominently featured in their artwork for both male and female.
  • The male and female's clothing also suggests that their abilities and overall design was crafted with either leather armor or heavy linen armor in mind, suggesting they work optimally in light to moderate armor. Again supported by their description as wanderers and travelers (easier to travel in lighter armors)
  • There is also some suggestion from the female artwork that they may have greater pet capabilities than other classes as well, as no other classes have pets featured in their artwork.
  • The wolf totem to accompany her wolf companion also seems to support this, although this could be a coincidence that she happens to have summoned a wolf companion (as the devs have said that these totems will be how companions and mounts will be summoned in game and all classes will be able to use these totems)
  • There is also a bloodied horn hanging from the belt of the female ranger, which may indicate that rangers specialize in hunting. It may also be a horn instrument, but unlikely due to the presence of blood.
  • The male ranger has several baubles of an undetermined purpose. They may be a form of medieval grenade (seeing as the duelist uses pistols, this may not be so far-fetched).
  • The ranger was also developed before the inclusion of companions, so they may have had a more independent and survival based design before the inclusion of companion pets. But seeing as they are heavily revisiting and redesigning the archetypes as they test the system, this may no longer be the case.
  • The male and female's physical design appears to be inspired by northern European medieval cultures, such as having some Celtic and Breton influences in their clothing design and in the design of the female's braids.

 

The Stalker's narrative, on the other hand, seems to contain heavy indicators of Stalker gameplay and ability design:

 

  • "Certainly not used to running for his life through dark streets and tight alleys. How quickly he fled the paved streets to seek refuge in the wood." This suggests that Stalkers prefer wooded, forested, or country environments and not suited to close urban combat, suggesting having access to long range damage abilities.
  • "He moves fast, and quiet – wasn’t he wearing armor?" The fast and quiet phrase bears some suggestion that the stalker also has access to stealth or camouflage mechanics, allowing him to move very quickly while still staying unseen. This also suggests that the Stalker is a very mobile archetype with some moderate mobile abilities in its design. It's racial abilities as an Elken may also provide such mobility.
  • "Scale mail, could be enchanted." Stalkers will at least have access to scale mail (should they include it. It is not currently listed as one of the types of armors that will be available in game, but this heavily suggests that stalkers will at least have been designed best operate in medium to moderate armor types. Because they have the heavier armor, this may also suggest some light to moderate melee capabilities to survive close combat fights.
  • "A hare, pinned to the tree waist-high, bleeding down the length of the trunk to the ground below. / Oh, you clever bastard—" This heavily implies that Stalkers will be the trapper based class, making heavy use of traps and CC to set up long ranged killshots. How this will all tie together will be up to the devs, but this passage is probably the best insight we have into how traps may work in the game, traps to mislead, distract, or position foes into their range for high-damage, precision-based attacks.
  • "His arrow pierces my throat." This implies that Stalkers will heavily rely on either highly precise and accurate ranged attacks, or rely more on generating critical attacks as his primary source of damage and utility.
  • The narrative also makes several references to how, should the Stalker be caught, that he will suffer heavy damage ("This one won’t live to see the dawn. If my men lose sleep, he’ll regret it. They will make it hurt." / "So, this is where he has chosen to die.") This suggests that while the stalker may have some defenses against melee with mail armor, they are exceptionally meager and that the stalker is the ranged glass cannon: if a stalker engages in melee, the player should not expect to live long or win those engagements.
  • The picture shows that the stalker archetype is designed primarily with the Elken as a template for their physical characteristics and identity. This also means that we can assume that many of the Traits exhibited in D'Orion of the Crowfall pantheon may be present in them as well (focus on hunting, stalking, scouting, vengeance, arrogance, stoicism, animal affinity or instinctive, and a degree of serious somberness and sobriety in their character and personalities).
  • The picture does not show the Stalker from the thigh down, which leaves the design of their feet in question. However, given that the Stalker in the narrative was not fond of the city roads and the design of D'Orion, their legs and feet may be either cloven and/or be shaped like the hindlimbs of most quadrupeds (deer or horse shaped legs) (somewhat disappointed that their fingers are otherwise human, would've preferred to see a cloven design there too, but, oh well)
  • The picture shows the Stalker in heavy leather armor, again supporting their optimal armor style/bonuses comes from wearing medium to moderate armor.
  • The picture also shows the Stalker among the leaves (even appearing as if he is in the canopy and treetops, looking down upon his target), appearing to use the foliage as cover and concealment, again reinforcing the idea that the Stalker may have some stealth or camouflage capabilities. The name "Stalker" itself, also suggests that the Stalker may make use of stealth.
  • The Stalker's artwork prominently features the bow and arrow as it's primary weapons, but does not outwardly display any other weapons, again reinforcing themselves as long range damage dealers specializing with the bow as their only weapon. There are small pouches along its belt, suggesting that this is where they keep either supplies or materials, possibly from traps or survival gear. Appears to be a survivor type class, as it appears as though the Stalker is able to survive harsh environments (judging by the cloak) on minimal supplies, so there may be survival abilities granted to the Stalker
  • The Stalker appears to have a much burlier appearance than the ranger, with broad shoulders, neck muscles and thick arms, while also having a thin stomach and waste, suggesting some physical prowess and ability to survive on minimal nutrition and food intake. Bowman were often cited as having very strong upper body strength due to the needed strength to flex the bow. Whether this will exemplify itself in gameplay is yet to be seen.
  • The Stalker has a much more tribal look than the ranger, deriving some Celtic influence, while also drawing some Germanic influences in their armor and insignia design. There also appears to be a tribal tattoo design over the right eye that is distinct from the shadows of the leaves. What this may mean is yet to be seen.
  • (Also of note that despite the names "Elken" and "Deeren," the Antler and anthropomorphic influences seem to be that of an antelope, as the antlers appear to be two separate and solid horns with minimal branching. However, D'Orion has branching antlers typical of North American and European Stags, so this may simply be a cosmetic option for the Stalker Archetype. Still remains to be seen.)

The Stalker page also contains insights into the Ranger class, too. If we can assume that "the Watch" described hunting the Stalker can be equated to the Ranger's "Wardens," due to the influence of the Game of Thrones Rangers and the similarities to the functions and definitions between the words "Ranger," "Warden," and "Watch":

  • "The smell of blood is close, and fresh. There! A handprint, on that tree." Suggests that the Ranger will have some refined to advanced tracking capabilities.
  • "So arrogant! We will find him, trees or no. The Watch is skilled. City, mountain or forest, we will find you." Describes their ability to traverse a multitude of terrains and still operate at high levels of effectiveness.
  • "If my men lose sleep, he’ll regret it. They will make it hurt." Describes some DPS ability, but does not specify how or the source of said damage.
  • "I approach the tree, horn-hilted blade clenched tightly in my hand." Biggest piece of evidence that Rangers will have moderate to high melee capability. You can also see the presence of a horn on the female ranger's artwork, complete with fresh blood. Whether this is a weapon or blade, or just a crafting material is unknown.
  • The fact that the Stalker kills the "Watch" leader at the end suggests that Stalkers may be more suited to combat and DPS than the Ranger is.

In comparing the two Archetype pages, we find that they are both extremely similar in their equipment, weapons, and their suggested ability designs. However, some differences we can assume in how their playstyles may differ:

  • The lack of direct reference to combat on the Ranger's page, emphasizing traveling and carrying out unconventional tasks suggests that the ranger's talents is split between unorthodox tracking and survival capabilities associated with travel, with some modest combat capability (much like a scout class in other games). The Stalker on the other hand describes many opportunities to outplay, evade, and kill the other archetype, suggesting that it's talents are much more geared towards combat and will be the premier archery-based ranged DPS.
  • The ranger's arsenal appears to be much more diverse and balanced between archery and melee combat. Despite both archetypes emphasizing their use of a bow, the Ranger makes more use of other weapons, such as blades and swords, while also having a much more diverse toolkit in his artwork.
  • The ranger appears to have greater mobility based on the narrative provided. However, the Stalker also makes references to mobility and must also remember that the Elken race may have bonuses to movement. What I predict is that the Ranger will have more overall mobility (speed boosts, sprints, etc.) for better travel times, while the Stalker may use dashes or leaps, as this allows for more short range positioning without revealing their position as much (and to also keep with the deer theme).
  • The ranger's narrative also makes a lot of references to spirituality, suggesting that they may have some magical capability. The Stalker does not make such reference.
  • They are both described as survivors in their narrative. However, how they survive may be different, as the Ranger seems to be a Frontiersman or Scout in terms of how he is described, while the Stalker could be described as more of a Trapper or Hunter.
  • The Ranger appears to be a jack-of-all-trades archetype, while the Stalker is much more specialized.

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 /facepalm

 

From Merriam-Webster:

Full Definition of RANGER
1
a :  the keeper of a British royal park or forest
 
b :  forest ranger
2
:  one that ranges
3
a :  one of a body of organized armed men who range over a region especially to enforce the law
 
b :  a soldier specially trained in close-range fighting and in raiding tactics

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Lots of guesswork and good ideas here. I tend to enjoy both ranged and tank archetypes as well, and I think a lot of our questions of course will be answered once ACE gives us more. I for one am extremely interested in what they have planned for the Ranger, but would like to know a little bit more as well to their meaning of "specialist."

Edited by Zim

9e58b2ae2f9ac9f2904b5d4c33b609bb92d1a174


"Sharp alone, deadly together."

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Based on the description, and the fact that it is now a stealth specialist it sounds like It is most similar to a rogue based Huntress from Shadowbane. 

 

I really hope this is the case, I loved ganking on that class more than any other class in my mmo history...

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Just wanted to add my two cents.  I played SB for a couple years and had large success with a dual wield dagger ranger using backstab.  I can't speak for the later years of the game, but my tracking abilities combined with stealth and some tankiness made it easy for me to counter/kill any scout that tried to jump me.  I was still fast enough to run from just about anyone and get back into stealth before the party could catch up.  I used the ranger to roam around and gank the gankers so to speak and I hope they allow for a similar archetype in this game.

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 /facepalm

 

From Merriam-Webster:

Full Definition of RANGER
1
a :  the keeper of a British royal park or forest
 
b :  forest ranger
2
:  one that ranges
3
a :  one of a body of organized armed men who range over a region especially to enforce the law
 

b :  a soldier specially trained in close-range fighting and in raiding tactics

 

 

LMAO

 

Only description needed:

 

Ranger

the one that ranges


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I don't think the ranger will have stealth but will have the anti stealth mechanic (I am pretty sure i read that or heard that somewhere from an ace employee).  That is going to be a lot of hurt feelings for some of you tourist. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Pre-Alpha Phase 2 Ranger will have both stealth and antistealth in order to facilitate complete testing of the stealth gameplay dynamic.

 

Pre-alpha archetype abilities are selected to promote testing goals with no regard for what that archetype's final intended role is in release.

 

Release Ranger will be a stealth class, with the Stalker being the primary anti-stealth class. Rangers may or may not be able to add anti-stealth via discipline runes.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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