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Thoughts and suggestions on universe design


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I like the concept they have for the universe, the further towards the center you go the bigger the rewards but the more intense the Hunger becomes. I had a few suggestions I've been tinkering around with in my brain and thought I would throw them up here to see what the community thinks.

Eternal Kingdoms

Admittedly I haven't spent much time in this portion of the game. However I get the concept and I think it's fine as is. On the outskirts and unaffected my the Hunger, a safe place to live on peace.

God's Reach

Perfect place to learn and level up as well as experiment with build ideas. Along with the ability to gather basic resources while safe from the Hunger under the protection of the God's. Not much to say here either, much like the Eternal Kingdoms I think it's fine as is. However I feel the tutorial should be detached from the factions in the early stages and allow you to work towards choosing a faction to fight for as you go through it, that's a whole different discussion though.

The Infected

Now you start to see and experience the effects of Hunger as well as the ability to PvP and lay siege in the name of your chosen faction of God's. As it stands right now this serves as the "PvP training wheels" as the community calls it. I feel some changes should be made to this however. I think this world should be the primary gameplay loop of Crowfall, ran in somewhere between 6-12 month campaigns resulting in one of the factions winning the war. Rewards should be distributed to the winning faction as well as top contributors from all factions to encourage players to log in and keep playing. The winning faction should also gain access to Dregs which I will explain further later when I get to it. As far as loot Infected should be inventory loot on death and contain mostly mid tier resources and loot with a small chance (that increases as the campaign moves into later seasons) to find high tier loot and resources also Kings should spawn but generally follow the same principals as the loot, rare with an increasing chance as the campaign progresses. Ideally there would be some sort of balancing system put into place to prevent stacking a faction, I just want to get the rough draft of my ideas out there.

The Shadow

I personally don't think I've ever seen one of these campaigns, however I feel this should be the quintessential GvG campaign. I think these campaigns should be ran in 3-6 month sessions, depending on how long Infected is set to run, with a break in between campaigns of at least a month. I think these could use a mechanic akin to Path of Exile leagues, in that each campaign has varying interesting mechanics the devs want to try out to add a little spice to the mix. The Shadow should also be either extremely strict on imports or none at all to keep the guild war action very intense. Rewards distribution should go to the top guilds/alliances as well as top contributors much like Infected. These campaigns should be 100% full loot on death with the exception of your characters runes. Rare loot and resources as well as King spawns should be more frequent than Infected but not to an extreme degree.

Dregs

This should be the most hardcore and end game experience of Crowfall. This campaign should only be ran for a limited time after the end of an Infected campaign, should be a relatively short duration, and only accessible by the winning faction of Infected. However there's a twist, for starters no imports whatsoever, secondly it's a free for all. What do I mean by this, it means every man for himself. Can you still group with others, yes, can they betray you afterwards, sure can. All forts/keeps should be held by an NPC faction based around the Hunger and they cannot be taken as this is their territory, they can however be ransacked and looted and should include a boss that is not easily soloable. The loot in this campaign should be pretty high value as well as more chances at rare resources. Much like The Shadow it should be full loot minus runes. This campaign wouldn't necessarily feature rewards based on stats or leaderboards but more so obtaining and banking loot to export. Banks should also be in limited supply as well as limited uses per a certain time frame.

In closing, I would like to see Crowfall push the faction war style of play rather than the GvG side of things. This would be beneficial to players with guilds and those who tend to be more of a lone wolf alike.

Edited by Knives27
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16 minutes ago, goqua said:

You haven't jumped into the campaign yet, I take it...

I have in fact, I have played the unfinished game that has a lot of development ahead of it and is by no means a finished product that I'm making a suggestion for on the suggestion forum that might give the devs some ideas to run with. Was there a purpose to your reply other than attempting to be an edgelord? 

Edited by Knives27
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I don't know what an edgelord is, but not being critical in any way, if that's your meaning.  Your post seems to cut off somewhat abruptly, and you didn't seem to mention the active campaign, so I thought you had progressed to a certain point in the game and had not seen the campaign.

No offense intended, I assure you.  Just trying to ascertain if you had tried the campaign and factored in what's happening there into your analysis.

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I have the impression that they will play with some of the rulesets you suggested.  Hopefully we will see many different styles of campaign running concurrently.

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1 hour ago, goqua said:

I don't know what an edgelord is, but not being critical in any way, if that's your meaning.  Your post seems to cut off somewhat abruptly, and you didn't seem to mention the active campaign, so I thought you had progressed to a certain point in the game and had not seen the campaign.

No offense intended, I assure you.  Just trying to ascertain if you had tried the campaign and factored in what's happening there into your analysis.

Ah, that was due to typing it up on mobile and I accidentally tapped the post button on accident before I was done. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I definitely hope to see the game eventually have concurrently running campaigns which was part of my suggestion. I just feel that the game appears to be going in a direction focused on the GvG aspect of the game and I think focusing more on the factions as the primary avenue of playing the game would create a healthier environment for new players and players that aren't sold on hopping into some big guild.

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Here is the rulesets and their planned loot mechanics. Might change but I think it is nice to be aware of their plans. (from KS page)

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I just noticed we are using the wrong names in the game today. Infected was supposed to be the 12 faction ruleset. GR shouldnt be a tutorial world either. God, we really need to put in place actual win condidtions to those rulesets. They feel completely meaningless...

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On 8/24/2020 at 11:29 AM, BarriaKarl said:

Here is the rulesets and their planned loot mechanics. Might change but I think it is nice to be aware of their plans. (from KS page)

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f5fb8fcfad5b87775f83f8e6cc08d372_origina

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31189217d0e24b6b4758a05baba8da6a_origina

 

I just noticed we are using the wrong names in the game today. Infected was supposed to be the 12 faction ruleset. GR shouldnt be a tutorial world either. God, we really need to put in place actual win condidtions to those rulesets. They feel completely meaningless...

That is old kickstarter data. The confirmed bands as of NOW are:

Eternal Kingdoms (Player Housing, Player Controlled Content, Trophies) - Player operated worlds constructed from resources and trophies won in campaigns or bought from crown store. Optional. May be PvE or PvP determined by owners. Supports leasing and subleasing land and housing rights, vendors, and an unannounced gameplay loop that is separate from existing campaign and loot rewards. No materials other than basic slag, cobble, and knotwood.
 

God's Reach (Training) - Tutorial area for leveling and training new vessels. PvE Only. No PvP Looting. Spirit Bank Access. No Campaign Mechanics. Low quality resources.


Infected (Advanced Training) - Extended tutorial area for allowing players to experiment with PvP. PvP without looting. Spirit Bank Access. Campaign mechanics exist, but have no reward mechanisms to encourage new player experimentation and discourage experienced players from hanging about and dominating them. Middle quality resources.

Shadow  - Main long-term campaigns for players interested in RvR style play. PvP Looting. Import/Export mechanics. Factions are led by the server and have no player leadership or ownership mechanisms. Mid to high quality resources. Intended for new players, small groups, or solo players. This band may or may not also include 12 faction variants.

Dregs - Main long-term campaigns for players interested in GvG and Alliance style play. PvP Looting. Import/Export mechanics. Factions are led by guild leaders and POIs cost gold to plant and replant. High quality resources only. Intended for large guilds and alliances. This band may or may not also include variants that allow or disallow alliances.

Within these bands, ACE wants to make avaliable variant rulesets through the use of specialized cards, different import/export limitations, and they have also mentioned potential for some campaigns to have other unique limitations or features, such as race-limited campaigns. For example, an Elves versus Minotaurs campaign in shadows that only allows those races to lock in. Campaign scoring in kickstarter was initially build around specific single victory conditions but that systems has been changed to seasonal cards, and cards are designed to provide a range of objectives that cater to different types of activity, supplemented with "evergreen" cards that always encourage the basic gameplay loops of sacrifice to the gods and taking and upgrading objectives as valuable activities, but these are less valuable and more accessible than specific seasonal objectives.

In addition the reward systems are not finalized. Todd is currently working on the final reward systems for campaigns and has mentioned he wants those systems to be multi-vector and to reward relative scoreboard placement in multiple categories in addition to fully winning campaigns in order to keep all players engaged and keep them from cancelling out of campaigns just because they aren't doing well early on.

Edited by PopeUrban
Edited to include EKs.

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14 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Infected (Advanced Training) - Extended tutorial area for allowing players to experiment with PvP. PvP without looting. Spirit Bank Access. Campaign mechanics exist, but have no reward mechanisms to encourage new player experimentation and discourage experienced players from hanging about and dominating them. Middle quality resources.

Nice to know they did infact change them. I thought those were just placeholder of sorts and the KS' ideas were still the goal.

I am just not sure we need two Training rulesets. How much training does people need before getting in the real game. It isnt like spending a year at the Infected as is will help any bit jumping into the real game.

At this point I feel we are just cutting off rulesets unnecessarily.

As show by current player behaviour no one gives a rat's ass about the Infected ruleset. I thought it would in the future at least turn into a interesting gameplay option. A RvR to new players. No loot still. Simple and easy. It would by itself train players, players would if at least by copying others or asking their teamates learn the game mechanics.

If it stays as is people will just ignore it. A incredibly boring 'Advanced training' ruleset that everyone skips... Just great...

I really cant understand how everyone seems to want to make it suck. Like, I get it. It is not the Dregs. There is no need to treat it as the scorned son from your wife ex-husband tho.

At least bring up a Shadow campaign then. People are trying to come with other ways to bring unguilded players into the game (The Earth Faction Dregs gimmick) when there is a whole gameplay loop the DEVs refuse to make use of. Or is someone gonna tell me The Shadow ruleset wont be viable at launch either? If that is the game I might as well start looking for another game to pick up.

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1 minute ago, BarriaKarl said:

Nice to know they did infact change them. I thought those were just placeholder of sorts and the KS' ideas were still the goal.

I am just not sure we need two Training rulesets. How much training does people need before getting in the real game. It isnt like spending a year at the Infected as is will help any bit jumping into the real game.

At this point I feel we are just cutting off rulesets unnecessarily.

As show by current player behaviour no one gives a rat's ass about the Infected ruleset. I thought it would in the future at least turn into a interesting gameplay option. A RvR to new players. No loot still. Simple and easy. It would by itself train players, players would if at least by copying others or asking their teamates learn the game mechanics.

If it stays as is people will just ignore it. A incredibly boring 'Advanced training' ruleset that everyone skips... Just great...

I really cant understand how everyone seems to want to make it suck. Like, I get it. It is not the Dregs. There is no need to treat it as the scorned son from your wife ex-husband tho.

At least bring up a Shadow campaign then. People are trying to come with other ways to bring unguilded players into the game (The Earth Faction Dregs gimmick) when there is a whole gameplay loop the DEVs refuse to make use of. Or is someone gonna tell me The Shadow ruleset wont be viable at launch either? If that is the game I might as well start looking for another game to pick up.

I agree that shadow campaigns need to come online again ASAP, but I disagree on infected. I think it is perfectly reasonable to have a PvE only training area and a PvP training area. Being able to test out PvP specs on live opponents without also dumping critical imports or farming time in a campaign is a crucial tool for new players to figure out what works and what doesn't, and that tool will be even more necessary after the upcoming explosion of new discs and build options they provide as it will be much easier to build substandard or broken pvp specs.

I don't want people to have to test the basic viability of these specs at the cost of the very limited player and economic resources they have in a campaign, and I think it is very important to also not thrust brand new players going through a tutorial directly in to PvP. That leveling process is a space to get familiar with how their build plays via general control and the dumb proxy for PvP opponents that wartribes provide. They can then move to infected and refine that build in PvP where the limited risk and ease of access to materials makes mistakes less costly. Finally, when they are happy with it they can move to a real campaign and start thinking about investing the resources and time required to set up an upgraded vessel for that spec.

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Just now, PopeUrban said:

I agree that shadow campaigns need to come online again ASAP, but I disagree on infected. I think it is perfectly reasonable to have a PvE only training area and a PvP training area. Being able to test out PvP specs on live opponents without also dumping critical imports or farming time in a campaign is a crucial tool for new players to figure out what works and what doesn't, and that tool will be even more necessary after the upcoming explosion of new discs and build options they provide as it will be much easier to build substandard or broken pvp specs.

I don't want people to have to test the basic viability of these specs at the cost of the very limited player and economic resources they have in a campaign, and I think it is very important to also not thrust brand new players going through a tutorial directly in to PvP. That leveling process is a space to get familiar with how their build plays via general control and the dumb proxy for PvP opponents that wartribes provide. They can then move to infected and refine that build in PvP where the limited risk and ease of access to materials makes mistakes less costly. Finally, when they are happy with it they can move to a real campaign and start thinking about investing the resources and time required to set up an upgraded vessel for that spec.

Hmm, I think if the Shadows come online what they do with Infected is irrelevant. Seems like The Shadow will work as both the RvR and 12v12 at the same time. So just the same. We just need a option for unguilded to try the best Crowfall can provide.

It is just pretty infuriating to see all these problems plaguing the game when a "simple" Infected Ruleset with the Cards mechanic would solve a bunch of them (which is basically what is happening with the Earth Faction Gimmick). Like, it would be such a sweet improvement.

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