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Please limit DREGS to be actual guilds.


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I'm not sure the intent of this earth faction zerg, but I think it is breaking Dregs right now.

Everyone joining up with earth by default is saturating the zones with endless trains of people with little to no tactics or objectives, and creating more lag than anything useful. if the purpose of DREGS is Guild vs Guild, then we need to make sure it's legitimate guilds, and  not just some guy rallying the default incoming faction.

Default faction (Earth/Moon/Sun) shouldn't be active in DREGS, and there should be an actual guild tag requirement.

 

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I'm not sure the intent of this earth faction zerg, but I think it is breaking Dregs right now. Everyone joining up with earth by default is saturating the zones with endless trains of people wit

This pleases me.

Earth is fine. Let the newbies have their fun. In fact, I wouldn't mind if dregs just did this automatically by removing 2/3 of the factions and automatically clumping all the unguilded players in to

If those people were in guilds, wouldn't they saturate the zones just as much?

Earth isn't the default faction, by the way. People are joining it intentionally. They could do the same thing with an open guild if they wanted to.

I don't see a big problem with the Earth faction at the moment.

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Earth is fine. Let the newbies have their fun. In fact, I wouldn't mind if dregs just did this automatically by removing 2/3 of the factions and automatically clumping all the unguilded players in to a single faction. It keeps them somewhat competitive.

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1 minute ago, Jah said:

If those people were in guilds, wouldn't they saturate the zones just as much?

Earth isn't the default faction, by the way. People are joining it intentionally. They could do the same thing with an open guild if they wanted to.

I don't see a big problem with the Earth faction at the moment.

Possibly.

Maybe the issue is the 500 guild cap on Dregs, which seems to be really high given the performance issues of the game/servers.

While they could form an actual guild and do the same thing, this would require some level of organization, management, and effort. Right now it's just constant zone spam of 'unguilded? switch to earth!' which seems to be serving no purpose other than to zerg out the dregs with legions of unorganized pugs roaming. I think that breaks the intent of this particular campaign.

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13 minutes ago, Kobra said:

Possibly.

Maybe the issue is the 500 guild cap on Dregs, which seems to be really high given the performance issues of the game/servers.

While they could form an actual guild and do the same thing, this would require some level of organization, management, and effort. Right now it's just constant zone spam of 'unguilded? switch to earth!' which seems to be serving no purpose other than to zerg out the dregs with legions of unorganized pugs roaming. I think that breaks the intent of this particular campaign.

Personally, I think it adds some extra life to Dregs that felt like it was missing before.  An unorganized earth guild is unlikely to be seriously competitive due to the organization, management, and effort required as crafting (especially vessels) becomes increasingly important in the coming weeks.  

Additionally, I am not sure what the alternative would be.  Exclude unguilded players from Dregs?  That doesn't seem very fair or fun - especially when no other options are present but it would also limit a meaningful choice in the long run.  Require those individuals to play solo?  That also doesn't seem very fair or fun.  This would place those players at an impossible disadvantage, and we would lose the aforementioned additional life (and PvP) those players bring to the Dregs.

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9 minutes ago, Ivellian said:

Personally, I think it adds some extra life to Dregs that felt like it was missing before.  An unorganized earth guild is unlikely to be seriously competitive due to the organization, management, and effort required as crafting (especially vessels) becomes increasingly important in the coming weeks.  

Additionally, I am not sure what the alternative would be.  Exclude unguilded players from Dregs?  That doesn't seem very fair or fun - especially when no other options are present but it would also limit a meaningful choice in the long run.  Require those individuals to play solo?  That also doesn't seem very fair or fun.  This would place those players at an impossible disadvantage, and we would lose the aforementioned additional life (and PvP) those players bring to the Dregs.

It is GvG in DREGS after all. Not Guilds vs Pugs stacked on top of each other in a zerg.

Also this is exploitable. Guilds tend to have accountability and at least some vetting process. How about someone makes an account on Earth, then pulls all of the loot, supplies, and pigs out of Earth control areas and takes them to their main guild on an alt? 

There are all kinds of reasons why a generalized unguilded faction in GvG Dregs is a bad idea. I can think of dozens.

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15 minutes ago, Ivellian said:

Additionally, I am not sure what the alternative would be.  Exclude unguilded players from Dregs?  That doesn't seem very fair or fun - especially when no other options are present but it would also limit a meaningful choice in the long run.  Require those individuals to play solo?  That also doesn't seem very fair or fun.  This would place those players at an impossible disadvantage, and we would lose the aforementioned additional life (and PvP) those players bring to the Dregs.

Yeah? That is what the G stand for. Guilds.

Look, I dont care either way but if the Dregs suck because there isnt enough guilds that is a basically a design choice.

The real question is why do players unguilded have to join the dregs to get the most interesting gameplay. Instead of making a RvR ruleset that is interesting, it seems everyone is just interested in the Dregs. Well, now y'all asking for the unwashed masses to be allowed in because the Dregs is boring. Or to be fair more boring without them.

I have been saying time and time again. Fix up the faction vs Faction. It can be really good. People were all disagreeing. "RvR dont matter that much, the focus should be the Dergs."

Now y'all decided to make a GvGvR. Where the Realm is just noobs entertaining the guilds, cuz everyone knows they are basically MOBs which are only there to bring flavor to the game...

"Let them, they cant win anyway..."

Edited by BarriaKarl
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3 minutes ago, Kobra said:

It is GvG in DREGS after all. Not Guilds vs Pugs stacked on top of each other in a zerg.

Also this is exploitable. Guilds tend to have accountability and at least some vetting process. How about someone makes an account on Earth, then pulls all of the loot, supplies, and pigs out of Earth control areas and takes them to their main guild on an alt? 

There are all kinds of reasons why a generalized unguilded faction in GvG Dregs is a bad idea. I can think of dozens.

Then kill them. I don't see what the problem is.

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47 minutes ago, Kobra said:

It is GvG in DREGS after all. Not Guilds vs Pugs stacked on top of each other in a zerg.

Also this is exploitable. Guilds tend to have accountability and at least some vetting process. How about someone makes an account on Earth, then pulls all of the loot, supplies, and pigs out of Earth control areas and takes them to their main guild on an alt? 

There are all kinds of reasons why a generalized unguilded faction in GvG Dregs is a bad idea. I can think of dozens.

I mean, let's be honest here, the Guilds are generally zergs in their own right so I'm sure we could just substitute in for "Guilds" as follows: "Guild members stacked on top of each other in a zerg vs Pugs stacked on top of each other in a zerg."  Seems fair when seen in that way.

Straight sabotage is possible, but, predictably, Earth players don't place items in areas that can simply be stolen.  Use of individual banks are certainly the answer.  Moreover, an individual can't pull pigs out of Earth control - pigs are tamed by individuals and then turned into a refinery by the same individual and can't be influenced on route by individuals in the same guild.  Similarly, an individual can't abandon one of the forts controlled by Earth - it would need to be actively undefended to reach that result.   Perhaps the worst one could do is join and spy on the Earth Guild, but we already have that between other guilds and it's not game breaking.

 

49 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Yeah? That is what the G stand for. Guilds.

Look, I dont care either way but if the Dregs suck because there isnt enough guilds that is a basically a design choice.

The real question is why do players unguilded have to join the dregs to get the most interesting gameplay. Instead of making a RvR ruleset that is interesting, it seems everyone is just interested in the Dregs. Well, now y'all asking for the unwashed masses to be allowed in because the Dregs is boring. Or to be fair more boring without them.

I have been saying time and time again. Fix up the faction vs Faction. It can be really good. People were all disagreeing. "RvR dont matter that much, the focus should be the Dergs."

Now y'all decided to make a GvGvR. Where the Realm is just noobs entertaining the guilds, cuz everyone knows they are basically MOBs which are only there to bring flavor to the game...

"Let them, they cant win anyway..."

Earth is a guild as currently defined.  It's a public faction associated guild, but it is still a guild.  We'd need a better reason to exclude them from the definition at this point.  

The Earth, Sun, and Moon factions have always been part of the Dregs rule set.  The ball is really in the court of those wanting those guilds removed from the rule set.  I am not asking for the "unwashed masses to be allowed in because the Dregs is boring."  As BarriaKarl said, when being fair, it is just more lively with them.  I think, instead of it being a design issue, it's more a population issue which is constrained by factors beyond design including marketing and how fast individuals are invited to the beta.  

I agree we should revisit the Faction vs. Faction rule set (we certainly have other things to do in the mean time though).  I also think the Shadow rule set deserves some attention.  In the long run, I think these rule sets will ultimately nullify the concerns that are being expressed in this thread.

The OP was concerned with the Earth Guild as currently implemented "breaking Dregs right now."  No offense to the Earth Guild, but I think the current solution is simple and I must agree with PopeUrban:

1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

Then kill them. I don't see what the problem is.

 

 

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The original goal of organizing people on the Earth faction was to help all the new people that started playing when Beta went live. In previous campaigns, new people were getting rolled over and over by large guilds just roaming the maps and killing anything and everything in their path. For a new player, this is sooo detrimental that it can potentially drive them away...which I'm sure has happened many, many times so far before Beta.

The thought process was to give new people a place to join a discord channel, learn the game, talk about the game, and just be able to play a new game without having those large guilds to ruin their new experiences. Sure, they will still get killed by those huge guilds that don't care if what they do is detrimental to new people or to the game as a whole, but at least by joining with Earth, they had a place where they could play with others and not be completely obliterated.

Maybe; just maybe...these large guilds should think about the future of the game itself and not make life hell for every single person in the zone. This game is going to die quickly if all the new people are run off by being zerged over and over for no reason other than they can be.

 

It was announced that anyone wanting to learn the game should join Earth and do just that. If you joined Moon or Sun; then I guess you are getting rolled by everyone. Join Earth. Play the game. And stay for future campaigns.

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31 minutes ago, Oroboros said:

The original goal of organizing people on the Earth faction was to help all the new people that started playing when Beta went live.

That's not how Zybak explained it. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/718226394?t=00h25m26s

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"This was my brainchild, I'm not gonna lie and say that I came up with this out of pure good will to help the new players and this came from a pure place of wanting to help people out..." --Zybak

The original idea was to make a zerg in the hopes of getting more 'per member cards' implemented in divine favor scoring.

Edited by Jah

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13 minutes ago, Jah said:

The original idea was to make a zerg in the hopes of getting more 'per member cards' implemented in divine favor scoring.

Actually, it was more than likely in response to someone's guild complaining that they couldn't win with solo player cards in the game. So they whined sooo much that ACE caved in.

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Just now, Oroboros said:

Actually, it was more than likely in response to someone's guild complaining that they couldn't win with solo player cards in the game. So they whined sooo much that ACE caved in.

Watch the video. Zybak explains himself clearly.

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