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Dregs is not fun in the current state - Feedback on Alliance


Elixor
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Following my feedback on fights  (link below), I wanted to share a bit more about alliances in the Dregs campaign.

Bear in mind that, I'm quite new to the game (1st campaign).

So far, I assumed Dregs was a GvG type of game where we all compete for forts and keeps. The reality of things is in it basically giga alliances, organising themselves to "game the system" and ensuring sub-guilds are given points to make it to the top but not to compete with the main guild. Which turns a GvG concept into basically a faction versus faction. (in the current campaign the 3 factions would king of be Earth, Winterblades&allies, and the rest a a disorganised faction) 

Now, nothing from the game prevent that, and from what I've heard recently, a future patch is actually meant to bring Guild Alliances.

I understand about the campaign cards too, and this is great, but in this case we shouldn't have the scoring at the top of the screen based on the conquests points (as many, (most?) would see this as the ranking).

As a solution, I don't know to be fair, what I know is GvG is so much fun, and yet the snowball effect of alliances on Dregs ruined the fun completely.

 

(A few disorganised thoughts sorry but I hope you got my points and I'd love to know how we could solve it. Note as well this is not a "omg they kill 5 of us and they were 10" :P )

 

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3 minutes ago, Elixor said:

we shouldn't have the scoring at the top of the screen based on the conquests points (as many, (most?) would see this as the ranking).

Yep, the conquest points should definitely not be prominently displayed at the top of the screen. It is very misleading.

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Can confirm. FOEX is not anyone's pet and is getting consistantly and mercilessly rolled by guilds ahead and behind us in rankings, including the heretical agents of the once great Balance faction, now known as Earth.

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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11 minutes ago, Elixor said:

Bear in mind that, I'm quite new to the game (1st campaign).

So far, I assumed Dregs was a GvG type of game where we all compete for forts and keeps. The reality of things is in it basically giga alliances, organising themselves to "game the system" and ensuring sub-guilds are given points to make it to the top but not to compete with the main guild. Which turns a GvG concept into basically a faction versus faction. (in the current campaign the 3 factions would king of be Earth, Winterblades&allies, and the rest a a disorganised faction) 

Now, nothing from the game prevent that, and from what I've heard recently, a future patch is actually meant to bring Guild Alliances.

I understand about the campaign cards too, and this is great, but in this case we shouldn't have the scoring at the top of the screen based on the conquests points (as many, (most?) would see this as the ranking).

As a solution, I don't know to be fair, what I know is GvG is so much fun, and yet the snowball effect of alliances on Dregs ruined the fun completely.

Let's break down the top 5
You've got Winterblades, who are large and organised, with an insane amount of game knowledge.
Next up is Earth, catapulted to the top thanks to organised effort of KGV. If it wasn't Earth, you might have seen their guild in that slot.
Then there's LOD, who are large and organised vets.
Corvus Citadel, also large and organised vets.

FOEX, small, but organised and committed. In business terms, you could call us agile, and I cringe somewhat at the thought of using that unironically.

Below that is Nordic Marauders and Meta Cartel. They're as committed and dangerous as anyone in the top 3, and Meta Cartel even took 4th in a previous campaign.

I think you're discounting the effort of other guilds, and ignoring what is putting them on top.
I can assure you it's not gaming the system, it's sleepless nights and a will to win or die trying.

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Unfortunately the DEVs and (part) of the community abhor the thought of the Unguilded noobs getting their own interesting campaigns. As such, there was an initiative to organize the second-rate players unguilded players and show them the real game. People were trying the game, never touching the actual real content and going away with bad impressions...

As a side effect we have the problem that you pointed out. The big/stabilished guilds laugh at the unorganized zerg that will never win anything or be a real threat while the smaller guilds that were already having a bad time suffer even more.

It is what it is...

Sometimes I wonder if they ever thought of making the game fun for everyone...

Edited by BarriaKarl
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24 minutes ago, Groovin said:

Let's break down the top 5
You've got Winterblades, who are large and organised, with an insane amount of game knowledge.
Next up is Earth, catapulted to the top thanks to organised effort of KGV. If it wasn't Earth, you might have seen their guild in that slot.
Then there's LOD, who are large and organised vets.
Corvus Citadel, also large and organised vets.

FOEX, small, but organised and committed. In business terms, you could call us agile, and I cringe somewhat at the thought of using that unironically.

Below that is Nordic Marauders and Meta Cartel. They're as committed and dangerous as anyone in the top 3, and Meta Cartel even took 4th in a previous campaign.

I think you're discounting the effort of other guilds, and ignoring what is putting them on top.
I can assure you it's not gaming the system, it's sleepless nights and a will to win or die trying.

Those damn God outposts

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54 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Unfortunately the DEVs and (part) of the community abhor the thought of the Unguilded noobs getting their own interesting campaigns.

This is not true. The next campaign type, the Shadow, is specifically aimed at unguilded people and small guilds.

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Thank you guys for the replies and I'm glad we are able to discuss this and what wraps it up around other potential issues.

My earlier feedback comes from a scenario that I've seen

 

Scenario 1: 

  • We have 12 keeps in the campaign.
  • 2 of them were owned by Winterblades from the start (fair enough, there is a rush that happens, people knows the game better, this is part of the fun and experience of a new campaign).
  • 1 keep was owned by CaC, which was in turn sieged by Winterblades
  • The keep was won by Winterblades but was claimed by Nomadic Marauders (Am I right assuming an alliance here, unless Winterblades lost the keep at the last second which I would doubt from someone with their experience)

Results I've seen since then: fights where you wouldn't be able to engage any one from Vanguard, Nomadic Marauders, Winterblades or (I want to say Conflict), without at least another guild trailing behind as allied.

Scenario 2

Similar scenario last night where the keep was then taken by Vanguard:

  • Cac, Earth and WR attacked the Castle.
  • CaC and WR turned against Earth as they were the biggest threat
  • WR and CaC ends up "winning" and agreeing, WR would keep the keep
  • WR faff around to finds out how the portable banks works
  • Vanguard and Nomadic Marauders wipes WR and claim the keep 

Results is a a snowball effect starts where it will turn into Guilds, 1, 2, 3, 4 vs Guilds 5, 6, 7, 8 (hence the Faction v Faction feeling here). (Like the LUD + CC fight against WR)

 

And then to contradic myself, because it's not all bad ❤️

There is this kind of fight between Earth, Wild Rhino, Dis, LOD and KDS (am I right assuming everyone is its own guild here) @1h09min:

This is what I always thought Dregs was about and I'm so glad I was in this fight:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/719286607?t=01h09m16s

 

 

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Its good you share your feedback Elixor, your guild is already doing really well, so it would be sad if you guys left already.

 

But to the reality of the situation, they call this game a 'throne war' inspired by Game of Thrones, and if you havent watched that, there's a lot politics, alliances etc involved in keeping a 'throne'.

 

Alliances are meant to be created and broken by game design.

 

But I agree our current situation does not really allow guilds to grow, unless they join an alliance, and that just furthers the problem of huge alliances.

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Guilds in dregs, especially the more experienced guilds, do need to nut cup each other but they choose to because they would rather save face from any negative reputation that would come from a poor dregs performance in any capacity during a beta test.  

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11 hours ago, Jah said:

This is not true. The next campaign type, the Shadow, is specifically aimed at unguilded people and small guilds.

Yet despite being for all purposes the most important ruleset for the beta we have no known timetable for it to come online. It just doesnt make sense.

Meanwhile we have to deal with all this mess, people trying the game and walking away with awful opinions.

The good feedback for some with the Earth faction gimmick shows the Shadows could be interesting. Could change the opinion of all newcomers around.

I thought the Infected was it, but it seems this is as good as it gets (yikes). Honestly, this killed my mood to play this and wasting my time on feedback that wont be implemented. I thought soon they would make a change to infected and boom! The infected would get an interesting scoring mechanic. I could finally take the last step and join a guild but I dont feel like it...

So yeah, hope they bring the Shadows online soon... Tired of feeling like the game doesnt care if I have fun... It is a fact unguilded players are uncared for, really dumb move IMHO...

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19 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

Can confirm. FOEX is not anyone's pet and is getting consistantly and mercilessly rolled by guilds ahead and behind us in rankings, including the heretical agents of the once great Balance faction, now known as Earth.

Was that covered in the 35 page powerpoint stream?

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5 hours ago, Ble said:

Was that covered in the 35 page powerpoint stream?

Powerpoint is for casuals. We transmit our top secret strategies via hypercard stacks on 3.5mm floppy discs.

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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On 8/25/2020 at 8:39 PM, Jah said:

This is not true. The next campaign type, the Shadow, is specifically aimed at unguilded people and small guilds.

haven't heard about this yet..

www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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What the campaign atm is lacking is something shiny for the smaller guilds to be fighting over. To me the following changes need to be tried to bring life back to dregs ruleset.

1: Return of the prior to beta campaign per player cards that were tossed.

Removal of them due to the concern guilds would tell Joey casual you cant play cause you cant commit enough time has lead to guild members logging into siege windows running around in a big blob moving from window to window than logging out until the next cycle. Not ALL guilds are going to tell Joey casual to naff off cause it hurts the amount of their per member work required. We are losing more players due to getting run over in their small guilds than a few hardcore guilds telling their casuals to sit out a campaign.

2: Remove the damn timer from forts.

Have the chests always spawn at the top of the hour this will give the smaller guilds a chance at getting something meaningfully shiny. Is no reason for the forts to have timers on them that the zerg blobs into once a day then alarm clocks alts to collect the resources from.

3: All of a guilds Keeps share the siege timer of the first keep they take, being able to split your siege windows across multiple days/times rewards zerg play. You want multiple keeps you should have to defend them at the same time.

Once Alliances go in:

1: per member cards are counted based on alliance numbers. If your small 15 man guild allies with a 60 man both guilds get their individual per member contributions ratio'd by 75

2: Allied guilds DO NOT share points,

3: All guilds in the alliance share the timer of whichever keep was taken first in the campaign.

Edited by Grivyn
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7 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

haven't heard about this yet..

They haven't talked about it much, but it is the name for 3-faction campaigns, which have been gone since Dregs testing began.

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I was testing this game for about 4-5 years already with some pauses. mostly solo, sometimes with some guilds and last 2 years mostly with a small group of active testers. and now in a small veteran clan.

and I wanna say no matter solo you are or in a small group - you will get zerged. shift happens. no matter you are in zerg ally or just in a small group. not on the siege but farming spot. not during fight but while you are trying to reach your group. you can get zerged anythere.

 

and what I found for myself: ppl always complaining. they lose - they complaining. they win - they also do this sht.

no matter this is a free pvp MMORPG or just a moba game. yes, there are some situation you can't do anything like 5 v 20+. shift happens. but I still can't understand why under the same conditions some guilds who positioning self as a pvp community just avoid fights. not trying to improve self but avoid and complaining after.

 

this is why EU have no balls atm. all clans who zerged me in ally for 2-3 years scared to even show on the sieges once they noticed some tags on the field.

find your group. improve yourself and start do something. stop complaining.

 

Just Do It» от Nike – слоган №1 в мире! | BrandStory

 

ps. I disapprove guild alliances. current statement when there are friendly fire is ok for me.

 

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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20 hours ago, Elixor said:

Scenario 2

Similar scenario last night where the keep was then taken by Vanguard:

  • Cac, Earth and WR attacked the Castle.
  • CaC and WR turned against Earth as they were the biggest threat
  • WR and CaC ends up "winning" and agreeing, WR would keep the keep
  • WR faff around to finds out how the portable banks works
  • Vanguard and Nomadic Marauders wipes WR and claim the keep 

perfect scenario I would say 😃

isnt it a true throne war which was a goal of dregs?

  

18 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

So yeah, hope they bring the Shadows online soon... Tired of feeling like the game doesnt care if I have fun... It is a fact unguilded players are uncared for, really dumb move IMHO...

this will not helps. what actually mean small clan? 10? 20? ppl is the problem and they are the same.

what in shadows also will be throne war with strong and organized clan vs guilds who "plays for fun" (with fire for example?)

mentality of pvp player and a regular player is different. but devs need both. so seconds type of players will surrend by all aspects if devs does not give em a chance. which mean first kind of players got angry.

and here we are - smaller scale of tragedy with the same problems.

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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