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6.100 TEST Feedback for 8/28/20


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The multiple crafting is a welcome addition, but it falls short of where it's needed the most, like food (especially bon tippers).  The up and down arrows are nice, but a box to type a quantity would

The possibility to craft mutiple of basic item at once is a great improvement, but its would be far more great if instead of having to click 20+ times on an small arrow we could have a slider or could

Today i tried the new crafting system and the system is broken, boring and i'm crying. i made some craft to test : we get lower stats. Then i realized than we got 100 accuracy, this is not fun

please have an option to disable the red outline. Personally I dont like it as it break immersion but if others do thats cool....just let me disable it.

 

Also couldnt place ground dolomite into the sigil mobility slot.  

Hammers High !!  Master Brewer of the Dwarven Hold Mithril Warhammers

 

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Overall, the biggest issue I've found with the game is that there doesn't feel to be any "weight" to any of the characters, movements, or attacks. Everything feels very floaty, and in fact the characters appear to hover a few inches off the ground at all times. Most of the attacks lack any kind of impact or feedback on the players side (a few of them seem to induce a slight screen shake, which helps). Another issue is that movement is extremely slow. Even an increase of 10 - 20% would make moving around the world feel marginally better. 

The art style, character designs, and overall aesthetic for the world are superb. Providing better game play so that players can engage with the content in an enjoyable way would be a good direction to move towards. 

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10 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

Blessings should be better explained. I have no idea how the mechanics for them stacking works. Sometimes they stack, sometimes they dont.

Srathor confirmed my guess that it has something to do with the pantheon but I still will have to try those around to see how they work properly.

I have no hope new players will understand it any better than me. Heck, I am not even sure new players understand how important those buffs are.

So, I'd reccomend some rework on the NPE part to better explain those. If I remember right it went basically like 'now you got a blessing. Go talk with this other NPC now'.

And I'd like to tie this stuff with coolster idea of an ingame wiki/help menu. Those sort of Pantheon shenanigans look like the kind of thing players would have to look up all the time. Perfect material for such wiki.

It may be a pantheon thing.  4 gods in each pantheon.  Maybe you can't stack buffs from the same pantheon, but can in different pantheons.  

Sun

VALKYNARKONCYBELEMAEVE

Earth

KRONOSGAEAD'ORION, ZALEENA

Moon

ILLARAKANEMALEKAIYAGA,

 

I meant to test this, but have been too busy, and I don't know where to find most of them.

 

(EDIT)It may also be a sacrifice thing.  Maybe sacrificing something in particular (or anything at all) lets that buff persist...testing now.

Edited by goqua
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19 hours ago, Savith said:

I'm not really sure where to begin, so lets start with that I generally don't follow the game at all I considered this a dead project years ago and honestly didn't think the game would ever get to a beta stage let alone a released stage. However, I was really excited to get access to it for beta but the game still feels massively unpolished to the point that I would still call this an alpha build or a pre-alpha. The main reason I say this is:

- Several items have names like "Wolf_Drop" with no actual item name.

- Some equipment still has no visual appearance IE: invisible swords for some items etc.

- Mounts have no appearance. If their not supposed to then don't call it a mount and fix the explanation for them.

-  Some abilities don't seem to function at all and most ability animations are so subtle you cant really tell your characters even doing anything adding minor things like swing paths or light effects onto them would be an easy fix.

- The proficiency system seems like its heavily split. If you look at weapons it will say Longsword Proficiency but you if you look in your calls proficiency it will say bladed weapons, leaving classes in an awkward position where they should be able to use something but cant because reasons? 

- The Race/Class system needs a lot of work, with how the system is designed you can tell each race is heavily intended to be a specific class and it really forces you into certain race/class combos just so you can get stats that matter for what you want to play.

- The whole tutorial island adventure is worthless and I can honestly say I didn't learn anything from it, there were several occasions where I only know how to do something because the quest put it directly in face, but anything beyond the scope of the quest was pretty much nonexistent. IE: the jewel crafting questing where you make a ring, It really seemed as if you could only craft the ring because of the quest, and I honestly could't figure out the crafting system period outside of the quest handing me something to do it. when I did try to delve into the crafting later it honestly didn't make any sense. For a game where this is one of the core systems it needs a lot of work.

- The target reticle is in such an award position that honestly just makes ranged characters feel so odd and most of the time if feel like i have to angle my camera towards the sky. Its not as bad fore melee characters but the off centered reticle definitely makes combat feel weird.

Im sure there are several more points I can make or issues I found but as the game stands now I definitely don't recommend it and wont be playing.

Edits- Fixed some minor spelling issues.

This is the test server feedback. Mounts are in

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On 8/29/2020 at 10:35 AM, BarriaKarl said:

Blessings should be better explained. I have no idea how the mechanics for them stacking works. Sometimes they stack, sometimes they dont.

Srathor confirmed my guess that it has something to do with the pantheon but I still will have to try those around to see how they work properly.

I have no hope new players will understand it any better than me. Heck, I am not even sure new players understand how important those buffs are.

So, I'd reccomend some rework on the NPE part to better explain those. If I remember right it went basically like 'now you got a blessing. Go talk with this other NPC now'.

And I'd like to tie this stuff with coolster idea of an ingame wiki/help menu. Those sort of Pantheon shenanigans look like the kind of thing players would have to look up all the time. Perfect material for such wiki.

It seems you can have one active from both Earth and Sun faction.  I tried with a Moon faction god in the campaign while I had a sun and earth buff going, but it would not allow me, saying my faction would not permit it.  I imagine that was because I was trying to use a point that had been captured by another guild, and did not belong to mine.  Conversely, it may not have allowed it because Sun and Moon are opposites, which if the case, then I would expect you can always have an earth faction buff, and one from Sun or Moon, but not one from Sun and Moon concurrently.  I'm sure someone knows for sure, but this is all my limited testing could come up with.

Edited by goqua
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Lunge still needs its own configurable keybind. It is very jarring to have it automatically happen when you hold down the attack button.

Most players hold down the attack button to do multiple LMB attacks. Most players do not want to dodge in this situation. There have been multiple forum polls that support this.

If lunge & attack *must* share the same button, I personally would prefer it happen on a double-click, but really it should just have a configurable button to trigger the lunge.

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I know you are probably getting a lot of feedback from long time players but, as a new player coming into the game its pretty overwhelming. Let me unpack that a little.

The game is pretty strait forward from 1-19 with the quests but, once you start to get past this point and you start looking at the core aspects of the game, its a cliff. There is no on-ramp to how PVP works. Its super technical with timers and events, crafting is not intuitive. The passive growth of crafting skills doesn't make sense. Why does my primary and secondary track - which drives the core aspects of the game - only advance through a passive timer (skill point gain per 10/s)? Its like EVE Online in that aspect, which makes no sense. I hated that about EVE which is why I stopped playing it. Its like, ok the game will play itself and I get to pick it back up 12 months from now. But, by the time that happens, more stuff is added to the game and its even more complex than it was 12 months ago in an already convoluted game. Its a design death spiral that prohibits new players from getting into the game and eventually chokes out the user base which is catastrophic for a MMO. Games like this need LOTs of players so world PVP is vibrant. The game needs to be much easier to get into. I guarantee you, that will kill the game if its not easy to get into PVP and break some heads. If new players are going against players teams with epic/legendary vessels with 12 months of skill trees, they won't stick around.

I just feel like the game development is too complicated for people to want to invest in. Its as if you took aspects of games you like, and slapped it all together into a single game that lacks a kind of cohesiveness or direction. Feel like there's a lot of design scope creep. I do not think crafting should even be implemented yet as PVP hasn't been flushed out yet. Let me first talk about crafting.

The crafting feels like Albion, where it feels like guild growth through crafting is a job. Where you are doing this rudimentary grind for some advancement of a collective welfare. It seems to be designed around this socialist utopia concept we are trying to build a welfare state for all in the guild. Its all hunkey-dorie in the beginning where its all hugs and buddies grinding together and everyone is willing to push resources to a few player toons to max them out with the hope its beneficial for them in the end. In reality, there ends up being a couple players with maxed out crafting toons everyone else helped to build but, instead of them helping everyone else, they help their friends and build a leadership coalition and then you have these 5-10 players who have all the autonomy, power and resources to control the rest of the guild and then begin to determine who gets what after they are maxed out and they don't need the support of the guild now. Then all these hurdles start to get put in place and demands. The once happy tree hugging guild becomes this - militant contribute or be removed - mentality. I've seen that happen in every game that has implemented a collectivist socialist design.

As far as PVP is concerned it's a lot like ESO and less like DAOC. ESO is slightly more worse off in the fact that the maps spread out too making PVP a needle in a haystack feel. DAOC pushed people through gates and choke points which made finding big battles or small squad fights easy. ESO does do this a little bit but, again, maps are too big and traveling takes away from the open world PVP. You don't know if you will get mobbed by 100 people or by 5. Too much of a guessing game and too much damn walking! No one wants to walk around looking for Mayonnaise in a grocery story. Thats what it feels like. Looking for some item I want but, blindly roaming and usually being disappointing. Either getting into too big of a fight and getting rolled, finding no one at all, or finding just a couple people and rofl-stomping them - all of those events are disappointing. Which is what your game is offering. That's likely 85% of the encounters you will experience with this type of design. You need to create more consistent experiences that people want to engage in. Fair battles that meet your expectation of the type of challenge you are looking for that reward you for your time and effort spent.

I am worried that though the game could be great, there are some large design flaws that will take the game and the ones mentioned above is feedback from playing these types of MMOs since the very inception to include Shadowbane that died on the vine because it had no control over griefers camping gates. Design flaws that were obvious to the community but, the game designers kept a blind eye to believing in their vision - that ultimately led to its demise.

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Considering how long we have been waiting for them, the mounts are honestly really disappointing. Their animations are very janky, they don't have anything interesting about them, they stop instantly, turn instantly, their manes and tails stretch weirdly, they don't seem properly grounded either, and their feet slide as they idle. It's good that they're here don't get me wrong, but man, I was really expecting something more inventive after all the wait. 

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3 hours ago, Zastier said:

Considering how long we have been waiting for them, the mounts are honestly really disappointing. Their animations are very janky, they don't have anything interesting about them, they stop instantly, turn instantly, their manes and tails stretch weirdly, they don't seem properly grounded either, and their feet slide as they idle. It's good that they're here don't get me wrong, but man, I was really expecting something more inventive after all the wait. 

I would like to see mount get unique bonuses or even abilities while on them :P

Could be a short duration speed boost on one, another might have a charge ability where you run forward knokcing down everyone u hit then dismounts at the end of the charge, Short duration dismount immunity and so on.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Age of Conan was my favorite mount system, both in the summoning and use mechanics.  Everything else I've seen is a big step down. 

That being said, the only thing I have to add about these mounts, is that I don't want to stand there for an eternity waiting to get on my mount and move.  If I want to quickly go from point a to point b, then I should be able to whistle my mount en route. 

I rage every single time I want to be in motion, but have to wait for a thing that will get me there a little faster, if the distance is great enough to make up for lost time.  I should not need to do a calculation to know if my mount is going to get me there faster.  It should, always.  Every single time.

Eating from a mount shouldn't kill being mounted, and trading or talking to an npc shouldn't kill being mounted.  It's not like we are going for super realism, considering batgirl, dancing squirrel and moose-man are in the roster.

There are probably technical reason I am unaware of here, and as a benefit, I am less inclined to be on my mount in a small area for crafting and what-not, so reduction in local objects where the fewer the better, but still.

 

Lastly, we all have ideas on what an MMO should be.  Gordon and J Todd may want Shadowbane, while I want Asheron's Call. 

We have all seen or played MMO's since those game came out, which improved design, despite our nostalgia.  Crowfall is not any of those games.  It doesn't use any of those engines.  It doesn't have the team that worked on game x or y.  Crowfall uses (as far as I understand) a modified or customized unity base, and has folks who have worked on all kinds of games.  What these folks have accomplished with their team, is nothing short of miraculous.  

I hear a lot of complaining on the forums.  Some of it is justified and needs to be addressed, some of it is being addressed, and some of it they will get to eventually.  Most of it is unrealistic, silly, or just people who need to complain about things.

We will get what they can produce.  If the game is successful, then we will get updates, fixes, etc.  The concept of this game is amazing.  We have a functional product right now.  Hallelujah, as far as I'm concerned. 

 

My criticism for feedback isn't oriented towards people in this forum or the others in test 6.1, but my point being, let's be realistic about things.  Game development is hard.  What they are trying to accomplish is hard.  They do not have unlimited funds or staff.  All feedback is great, but quality feedback is better.  

If you care about this game being the game you want to play, then learn about the dev team.  Learn about the tools they are using to develop their game.  Go through the notes.  Read everything.  You are ALL game testers.  You are all helping to develop and test an active game development, via gameplay and reporting.

 

Personally, I want to thank everyone who comes in here to give feedback, reports bugs, and engages the community in general.  I'm glad to have shared this unique opportunity with all of you.

 

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17 hours ago, Talidus said:

I know you are probably getting a lot of feedback from long time players but, as a new player coming into the game its pretty overwhelming. Let me unpack that a little.

The game is pretty strait forward from 1-19 with the quests but, once you start to get past this point and you start looking at the core aspects of the game, its a cliff. There is no on-ramp to how PVP works. Its super technical with timers and events, crafting is not intuitive. The passive growth of crafting skills doesn't make sense. Why does my primary and secondary track - which drives the core aspects of the game - only advance through a passive timer (skill point gain per 10/s)? Its like EVE Online in that aspect, which makes no sense. I hated that about EVE which is why I stopped playing it. Its like, ok the game will play itself and I get to pick it back up 12 months from now. But, by the time that happens, more stuff is added to the game and its even more complex than it was 12 months ago in an already convoluted game. Its a design death spiral that prohibits new players from getting into the game and eventually chokes out the user base which is catastrophic for a MMO. Games like this need LOTs of players so world PVP is vibrant. The game needs to be much easier to get into. I guarantee you, that will kill the game if its not easy to get into PVP and break some heads. If new players are going against players teams with epic/legendary vessels with 12 months of skill trees, they won't stick around.

This is important feedback, and I had a similar experience when I started.

There's a disconnect between what the game teaches you as you level and the *real* game that starts once you hit 30. Learning the combat system, pig running, harvesting, crafting, etc. are all important aspects of the game that new players should learn, but there are more things that just are not (can't be?) in the tutorial. Things like:

  • What are the real valuable resources in the game? (dust, chaos embers, minerals/heartwood, NOT GOLD, etc.)
  • How should you be spending your passive points to make sure you end up with a useful account that is not months behind everyone else?
  • What does progression look like? (right now it's as you describe - guilds focused on boosting individual crafters to produce for them, but a new player might think they could do it themselves. They can't - at least not with only 1 account).
  • How is the game actually played? What can they expect from events? (Eg. When a king spawns on a map, they need to know that it is an important resource and many players will likely be coming to try and take it since the event is announced to everyone). How are keep sieges fought? What about forts?
  • How does combat really work? What should a healer be doing? What should a tank/dps be doing? Which builds are effective and why?

It is difficult because this stuff changes all the time with patches. Who knows, maybe there will be a patch or reset that fixes the economy, so players will have incentive to sell their crafted items outside of their guilds. Maybe a new patch will completely change how sieges are done.

It would be nice if we as players could collaborate on an ongoing "State Of The Game" document/wiki/post/thing that explains all this for new players.

Edited by nihilsupernum
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1 hour ago, goqua said:

That being said, the only thing I have to add about these mounts, is that I don't want to stand there for an eternity waiting to get on my mount and move.  If I want to quickly go from point a to point b, then I should be able to whistle my mount en route. 

I rage every single time I want to be in motion, but have to wait for a thing that will get me there a little faster, if the distance is great enough to make up for lost time.  I should not need to do a calculation to know if my mount is going to get me there faster.  It should, always.  Every single time.

Would make sense too. It is a figurine after all.

I still dont know why the animation isnt the character reaching out to their bag (at the waist), pulling a figurine, it glows a bit then the mount appears.

Like, that one would be simple to integrate into the moving animations.

If ACE wants it to present a risk could just increase its summoning time.

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22 hours ago, Talidus said:

I just feel like the game development is too complicated for people to want to invest in. Its as if you took aspects of games you like, and slapped it all together into a single game that lacks a kind of cohesiveness or direction. Feel like there's a lot of design scope creep. I do not think crafting should even be implemented yet as PVP hasn't been flushed out yet. Let me first talk about crafting.

First time playing, this guy has the absolute right of it. I didn't get far enough to even taste the PvP, but I've already been turned off by the omega-high barrier to entry. It seems to have taken the system that make EVE so difficult to get into and married them to an otherwise substandard amalgamation of systems from other games. I recognize that the game is in development, and in 2030 when all of these things are fully implemented and polished I'm sure it'll be amazing. But until then, there's not much point in my playing. 

There's something to be said for striving toward the vision — and I respect the ambition of the devs and the dedicated testers who are working toward achieving that goal. But what you have now isn't very appealing to the new player at all. Coming into it, seeing that there's an EVE style progression, seeing how the quests seem to be, how the PvE is, how combat looks and extrapolating what the PvP is probably like — and how much it seems like I would need to grind to start enjoying the game... It's all a massive turn-off. 

My suggestions: By all means, keep developing the game and working toward that mythical pie in the sky dream game — but for goodness sake don't expand the scope any further and don't add any more features until you've finished at least some of the ones you've already implemented. It looks like a lot of the most recent patchnotes are fixes and tweaking and that's exactly the right thing to do, keep on with that. 

I'm excited and hopeful for the game to be further along than it is now, but I really hope the progression doesn't stay the way it is. I didn't experience any bugs, but it was very rough around the edges. I would play a rough-around-the-edges game with a reasonable entry curve, and I would also play a polished game with a high barrier to entry, but both is enough to turn me off completely.

I suppose feedback like that isn't very actionable, but these are the macro-level impressions of someone coming at it blind. Maybe I'll come back to it in a couple days and find some particularly sharp corners. 

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I know this is certainly not intentional but I quite like the placement of those nodes. I really wouldnt mind if those were found mostly on such situations.

vR9iPFS.png

It forces people to bring fighters and during the harversting it gives bodyguards something to do in the meantime.

Having 2 gatherers, 1 bodyguard keeping the nodes safe (can rotate with the others if he gets bored), and 2 other bodyguards working as backup (for PvP) who can just focus on farming MOBs seems pretty solid.

Sure there can be nodes sprinkled here or there, but this is absolutely where I want the max lvl ones.

Heck, can even make it fit the lore. It would make sense cities would spring around high lvl nodes. Just like cities were centered around water sources.

Edited by BarriaKarl
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Today i tried the new crafting system and the system is broken, boring and i'm crying.

i made some craft to test : we get lower stats.

Then i realized than we got 100 accuracy, this is not fun.

and then :

You kill social interaction !
i'm crafting a legendary mail armor, and i checked the leather padding recipe :

I dont need anything to get leather padding with 100% sucess on legendary, no rune, no passive, no friend.


So the system is now broken in three way :
- lower stats
- less fun ( 100% chance and no experimentation is no fun at all )
- less social interaction

i always said that the crafting system was the best i ever seen. For 4 years now i always get fun crafting gear despite some pitfall, it's not the case today on the TEST server.

Their is some problem on the craft, but this solution is worst.

Please dont allow this to go to the live 😢

Edited by Aedius
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