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Things That Would Improve Crowfall's Appeal


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1/ Global auction house 
2/ Active skill system 
3/ Anti zerg system
4/ Greater mob density & improved AI behavior
5/ Allowing respecs
6/ More bank space
7/ Individual loot (& loot all)

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Let me start by saying this isn't a PvE game, so suggestions that move the game more in that direction will likely fall on deaf ears. That means that #4 and #7 probably won't happen and, more to the point, aren't necessary in Crowfall. A loot all button is possible, but only for PvE, and therefore isn't a priority.

#1 probably won't happen either, because it would destroy one of the core concepts of the game, which is EKs as market places. I could see a hybrid approach, similar to what SWG did, but it's not a huge priority either.

#3 can be solved pretty easily by establishing guild and alliance limits on a campaign by campaign basis. They have already said they will do this for tournament campaigns.

#5 is in the works, though I believe it will only be for talents, not skills

#6 is on test right now, in the form of personal chests that you can place in your EK, and communal faction/guild chests in keeps

For #2, they have talked about having some active ways to progress passive skill training, but don't expect them to completely ditch the passive system at this point. We are months away from launch. It isn't going to happen.

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1/ not totally agree we need to see ek fix to answer

2/ disagree , we just need a catch up system for new players and a balance between craft and loot on early game

3/Agree

4/ pvp game man , no more pve

5/for talents yes for white vessels but not for all , for skill tree why not but limited (maybe 1 times per month if you got vip ?)

6/arcade already answer

7/ hard in pvp game  

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40 minutes ago, Arkade said:

Let me start by saying this isn't a PvE game, so suggestions that move the game more in that direction will likely fall on deaf ears. That means that #4 and #7 probably won't happen and, more to the point, aren't necessary in Crowfall. A loot all button is possible, but only for PvE, and therefore isn't a priority.

#1 probably won't happen either, because it would destroy one of the core concepts of the game, which is EKs as market places. I could see a hybrid approach, similar to what SWG did, but it's not a huge priority either.

#3 can be solved pretty easily by establishing guild and alliance limits on a campaign by campaign basis. They have already said they will do this for tournament campaigns.

#5 is in the works, though I believe it will only be for talents, not skills

#6 is on test right now, in the form of personal chests that you can place in your EK, and communal faction/guild chests in keeps

For #2, they have talked about having some active ways to progress passive skill training, but don't expect them to completely ditch the passive system at this point. We are months away from launch. It isn't going to happen.

It's supposed to be an MMO RPG with a strong focus on pvp element and games built purely for pvp end up being very niche with low populations (Have a look at the beta, there are currently 50 people watching Crowfall streams which is a far cry from when the beta started). A denser mob population will make the world feel more alive and individual loot would prevent one person in your group from getting everything that drops.

#1 Ek's are a terrible way to buy/sell gear. If they could link them all into a searchable data base that would help some

#2 Without some for of active skill system people have no incentive to stay logged in play alts etc

#3 Caps on guild and alliance sizes would be a step in the right direction and incentives for smaller guilds would help

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, royo said:

4/ pvp game man , no more pve

 

24 minutes ago, Arkade said:

Let me start by saying this isn't a PvE game, so suggestions that move the game more in that direction will likely fall on deaf ears. That means that #4 and #7 probably won't happen and, more to the point, aren't necessary in Crowfall. A loot all button is possible, but only for PvE, and therefore isn't a priority.

"PVP game" they say... while farming wartribes for gear/gold/etc.; while zerging damage soaking, punching bag kings; while farming thralls for disciplines (minors in the future?); while farming monsters for sac items and relics for victory cards.

Improving AI has been talked about in several past Q&As. The roll of PvE mobs continues to expand in the victory card system, and things like wartribes 'expanding' and owning keeps has been thrown around multiple times, going back a year+. If the feel and experience of punching mobs isn't improved, it's going to be a missed opportunity since these activities will just feel more hollow.

Investment in that part of the game will only make the overall experience better. It would improve leveling and new player retention. It would make the campaign worlds feel richer. It would make the PvE aspects of the strategy game more fun. PvE in a PvP game, when done right, adds a great deal of conflict and excitement (e.g. DAOC's Darkness Falls, and ESO's Imperial City, WAR had Land of the Dead I think).

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1 hour ago, Pystkeebler said:

 

"PVP game" they say... while farming wartribes for gear/gold/etc.; while zerging damage soaking, punching bag kings; while farming thralls for disciplines (minors in the future?); while farming monsters for sac items and relics for victory cards.

All of those activities are things that get people out into the world, creating opportunities for PvP.

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2 hours ago, Arkade said:

All of those activities are things that get people out into the world, creating opportunities for PvP.

Certainly.

That doesn't make them any less PvE (or PvPvE.. the E is still there), and it doesn't make them any less lackluster. These activities could be much more interesting and modern, and the game would be much better for it.

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6 hours ago, Mallas said:

It's supposed to be an MMO RPG with a strong focus on pvp element and games built purely for pvp end up being very niche with low populations (Have a look at the beta, there are currently 50 people watching Crowfall streams which is a far cry from when the beta started). A denser mob population will make the world feel more alive and individual loot would prevent one person in your group from getting everything that drops.

#1 Ek's are a terrible way to buy/sell gear. If they could link them all into a searchable data base that would help some

#2 Without some for of active skill system people have no incentive to stay logged in play alts etc

#3 Caps on guild and alliance sizes would be a step in the right direction and incentives for smaller guilds would help

 

 

 

Crowfall was literally designed to be a niche game with a low population. Its entire financial model is built around being a niche game with a low population. That's why the team is so small and the campaign model is meant to scale the number of server up or down based on population need while giving players the ability to exist outside of those servers. It is not designed or intended to be an RPG with a strong focus on PvP. It is intended to be a competitive long form match based RPG in which PvP is the reason for every system to exist. PvE is never going to be a focus of this game, and it was never intended to be. PvE is a harvesting mechanic and PvP conflict driver.

I have two accounts worth of alts and a reason to play all of them right now. However, that reason is divine favor. Divine favor's reward system isn't currently implemented, and it needs to be implemented ASAP so that players don't ignore the main loop of the game, which is winning divine favor. Without that reward system, you are correct, much of the game feel rather pointless. The central loop of the game is "do things to win divine favor and place higher on the campaign scoreboard each season" and a large number of players are ignoring that loop because that loop has no rewards attached to it at the moment. Every other system is built to feed in to that loop. PvE doesn't exist to do PvE. It exists to provide sacrifices that directly feed in to glory cards as well as other items that feed in to the crafting and vessel systems to better quip players to pvp over other types of objectives. New players are underserved by not having the point of the game explained to them, or being rewarded for actually playing it and ACE need to prioritize getting those reward systems online.

Small guild incentives come in the form of per member or landless victory cards (which become impossible to win after scaling your guild to a certain size) and the currently missing shadows campaign type. This is a 3-faction RvR style campaign type that is not currently in testing that we ran for most of alpha before we started testing dregs. The balance of these cards and their impact on the divine favor system, as well as ensuring solos and small guilds have the option of those RvR campaigns is the intended play space for these players.

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18 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

Crowfall was literally designed to be a niche game with a low population

I'm not sure why any MMO (massively multiplayer online) would want to stay small and niche. For a PvP game you need players to fight against and looking at the number of people playing and watching the game only a couple weeks after beta has been released should be alarming. If they wanted low pop with good fights they could have just created a game with arena's & battlegrounds. Currently the game feels like a running simulator...

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On 9/7/2020 at 9:59 AM, Mallas said:

1/ Global auction house 
2/ Active skill system 
3/ Anti zerg system
4/ Greater mob density & improved AI behavior
5/ Allowing respecs
6/ More bank space
7/ Individual loot (& loot all)

  1. Not going to happen but a search tool with vendor locator would go a long way.
  2. What does that look like? What's the point?
  3. Some things in the works but there is no system that is going to solve the problem, only decrease it.
  4. Higher mob density would be great to fill the empty world. AI could improve but isn't needed for the game to function and launch. Not going to see themepark raid boss AI or mechanics, but smarter mobs would be interesting.
  5. Respecs are coming.
  6. Bank space is coming and my guess will be something they throw in the cash shop. Inventory management as a whole needs help.
  7. Play with people you trust. Loot all would be nice but doubt we'll see it soon if ever. For me, I'd rather a way to filter out crap I don't want so I don't waste my time looting something that has nothing I want. Wouldn't mind seeing gold and generic items pop out as doobers, but doubt gear would ever do so.
On 9/7/2020 at 11:14 AM, Mallas said:

#1 Ek's are a terrible way to buy/sell gear. If they could link them all into a searchable data base that would help some

#2 Without some for of active skill system people have no incentive to stay logged in play alts etc

#3 Caps on guild and alliance sizes would be a step in the right direction and incentives for smaller guilds would help

  1. EKs aren't close to functioning like they originally planned. No idea if they'll get closer prior to launch or ever. A searchable market that allowed us to pin point where a vendor was located would be very helpful if a universal auction house isn't going to exist (it isn't). Running from stall to stall is not fun for me.
  2. Different characters have different purposes. If all you want to do is stab someone in the face one way, then ya no need for alts. If you have any intention of winning a campaign or being highly useful, then playing different roles/characters is important.
  3. Show me a open world MMO that benefited from caps that players didn't work around. They have plans for Divine Favor and Campaign rewards to factor guild size in some way, but will have to see how it works out. Reward scarcity and per member scoring cards would be a big help but still won't stop guilds/alliances from using numbers to their advantage. Outside of instanced XvX battlegrounds, there is no good way to stop this.
49 minutes ago, Mallas said:

I'm not sure why any MMO (massively multiplayer online) would want to stay small and niche. For a PvP game you need players to fight against and looking at the number of people playing and watching the game only a couple weeks after beta has been released should be alarming. If they wanted low pop with good fights they could have just created a game with arena's & battlegrounds. Currently the game feels like a running simulator...

Problem is that why we might call and play it like a "game" it still isn't complete or at least not ready for launch (MMOs are never complete).

The NPE not being finished for example is a deterrent for many. Upcoming QOL improvements missing would be another.

I wouldn't take the current population to be an indicator of how it will do later on. No doubt though that it isn't going to have 100k viewers on Twitch. Just won't happen beyond launch or when a big name decides to be a looky loo for a minute.

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On 9/7/2020 at 11:16 AM, Pystkeebler said:

DAOC's Darkness Falls

Would so enjoy something like this in the game. Not as intricate, but could see a three entry point cave system with a highly valuable POI at the center. Could be a Golden Pack Pig that you only had 30 min to escape with or a circle to stand in that boosted your guilds XYZ by 10%. Basically anything worth fighting to get to, over, and away from in a hostile world.

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20 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

Crowfall was literally designed to be a niche game with a low population. Its entire financial model is built around being a niche game with a low population. That's why the team is so small and the campaign model is meant to scale the number of server up or down based on population need while giving players the ability to exist outside of those servers.

It will likely be a small population game, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit from more customers/revenue. If ACE could make small improvements to what is already in place and grow the population with a high cost/benefit ratio, I don't see the business reasoning to not do so. ACE isn't doing this as a charity after all.

If making "better AI" costed millions and put everything else on hold, heck no, but eventually they'll reach a point where the game is in a good place and they'll need to look at the future. Unless development stops on launch day, this will be an ever growing game and all the systems within it.

As actual "PVP" features/mechanics are few and far between, PVE is where the game will grow. That doesn't mean copy paste WoW, but building out what is already made. Such as "better AI."

20 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

PvE doesn't exist to do PvE.

PvE is never going to be a focus of this game, and it was never intended to be. PvE is a harvesting mechanic and PvP conflict driver.

Almost the entire game is PVE based and functions without PVP.

It's a loop, but PVE has a lot more value then PVP in of themselves.

Outside of kills/skull cards, the game is dictated by PVE unless someone shows up to fight.

I'm here to PVP but I can't just ignore PVE and hope to succeed.

Improving PVE QOL and features is how this game will become more accessible, enjoyable, and successful. What form that takes is unknown.

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1. Allow duels? Why can't i request a duel with a friendly?

2. Remove ALT+P or put that thing on a 24 hours CD. 10 mins IS WAY to low.

3. Remove timers for EK. So we are forced to do "controlled pvp" in there but yet theres a rez time.

4. Give us some sort of combat content outside of siege time. Lets face it theres 5-10 hardcore farmers in most guilds and they carry the weight of crafting everything. So now you have a huge population that strictly login for siege.

5. Remove passives. Life doesn't reward mediocrity. Why should Crowfall? 

6. Add mechanic for small scale. Let's face it the lootable pvp mmo isn't a new model so no need to recreate the wheel here and lets add some of the mechanics that other games have.

7. player initials on their "waypoint" so you know what green diamond is what or change the symbols for 1/2/3/4/5 in the group.

 

The whole this is a PVP game is true BUT and yes its a big BUT, theres banks EVERYWHERE, ALT+P is on a 10 min CD, there's no reason for the majority to play outside of siege time. So I would say this is more of a siege sim in the current state. With that being said I haven't talked to one person that references a siege or ZvZ scale fight as their favorite fight. It's always 10v10 or less.

Edited by Sirktivo
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I guess a better way to put it isn't so much it is designed to be small so much as it is designed to cater to a smaller demographic. This is similar to how battle royale games or mobas are designed. You could design those genres around alternate game modes with dungeons and pve but at the end of the day the core gameplay is built under the assumption that people show up to play a specific type of game. You wouldn't see ACE, for instance, adding a new pve-only mode to bring in players that aren't interested in the existing campaign>EK model.

Crowfall's "Specific type of game" is the throne war campaign the same way a MOBA is about pushing lanes and destroying a core rather than just killing npcs. The NPCs exist to serve as an element of a pvp loop rather than constitute their own loop separate from pvp. That doesn't mean we don't see better AI or more complex NPCs, proper dungeons might even be a thing at some point in the far future, but it does mean you're not going to see that stuff as its own separate thing. If you were to ever see a dungeon in crowfall, that dungeon's primary purpose is to be a thing players fight over as some form of campaign or harvesting related system.

ACE designers have commented on this in the past, saying they aren't really interested in making alternate non-pvp endgames or loops that allow players to separate themselves from dependance on the campaign loop. I'm sure they wouldn't be sad if the game blew up overnight and became the most popular thing ever, but in general their direction seems to be focused on making the best version of that throne war concept, not having throne war as one of multiple game types, and not adding different competing loops that people are encouraged to do in stead of campaign play. The game assumes at a basic level that if you're playing crowfall, you're here to be involved directly or indirectly in the campaign loop and that you can not operate separate from it. Even with the most fun and fleshed out PvE EKs ever, the intent is that building that amazing pve-only EK requires rewards gained from campaign play.

Wherever you land in the activity spectrum of crowfall, they very much want the center of activity to be in campaigns, and the center of social play to end up in EKs as a function of campaigns being the place where rewards are generated, and EKs being the places where stuff that isn't consumed to win campaigns end up.

Edited by PopeUrban

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4 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

I guess

OP mentioned "Greater mob density & improved AI behavior" and that turns into Non-PVP Endgame? Separate PVE modes/loops? I must of missed a comment somewhere.

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1 hour ago, APE said:

OP mentioned "Greater mob density & improved AI behavior" and that turns into Non-PVP Endgame? Separate PVE modes/loops? I must of missed a comment somewhere.

No its just context for the greater role of pve.

Specifically, the players targeted by more pve aren't necessarily players ACE seems interested in courting, which is probably why there hasn't been anything substantial in pve terms since about when tribes were added. Or, rather, farmers who seek to get their fun from fighting mobs just don't seem to be people ACE wants to target.

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2 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

No its just context for the greater role of pve.

Specifically, the players targeted by more pve aren't necessarily players ACE seems interested in courting, which is probably why there hasn't been anything substantial in pve terms since about when tribes were added. Or, rather, farmers who seek to get their fun from fighting mobs just don't seem to be people ACE wants to target.

I don't care about PVE fans expecting this game to be something it isn't, I care about myself.

The PVE in this game is bare minimum entertainment as is. Just enough that I won't uninstall, but not nearly as good as it could be with some QOL improvements and building out what already exists. That doesn't mean make a sad attempt at a WoW clone, but rather just make PVE as entertaining and challenging as possible within the means/scope of the game.

I don't expect anything anytime soon, but eventually they'll need to expand and improve on what exists and the majority of features/content in this game are PVE. So unless by some miracle they make actual PVP specific meaningful content or improve on Siege, then PVE will be the avenue to grow the game and likely make it more accessible to those on the fence.

Not everyone is going to play this as a spreadsheet sim. Going to need the more casual folks here just to bang on some rocks and throw themselves at zergs.

If ACE didn't care at all, mobs wouldn't fight back, we wouldn't have chiefs/kings, rocks wouldn't have little targets to aim at, and all those little fun factors that have zero to do with the Throne War game loop. A very small core of players have accepted all of this as enough, time will tell if it is enough to actually reach the "niche" numbers they are going for. So far the barrier to entry and the "this is it?" view seem to be winning.

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6 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

No its just context for the greater role of pve.

Specifically, the players targeted by more pve aren't necessarily players ACE seems interested in courting, which is probably why there hasn't been anything substantial in pve terms since about when tribes were added. Or, rather, farmers who seek to get their fun from fighting mobs just don't seem to be people ACE wants to target.

That is the thing tho. People arent really asking for game changing stuff.

I for example have said time and time again MOBs need to be stronger. Not because I expect fighting MOBs to ever be as interesting as fighting players, I just dont want it to feel like I am smashing bugs whenever I farm then for gear or gold. I can honestly fight 9 normal/elites plus a capt at once alone without going below 50%. While playing half heartedly. All I do is check for a chief/boss. If they arent present I can go yolo. The more I kill at once the faster I can bank.

Make them stronger so a single player cant take a 'party' alone without it being a risk.

Make Ranged mobs stay at range. FFS. Just this would increase the difficulty quite a bit. And this is what we mean with improve AI. We dont want anything crazy just make them not dumb as rocks.

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28 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

That is the thing tho. People arent really asking for game changing stuff.

I for example have said time and time again MOBs need to be stronger. Not because I expect fighting MOBs to ever be as interesting as fighting players, I just dont want it to feel like I am smashing bugs whenever I farm then for gear or gold. I can honestly fight 9 normal/elites plus a capt at once alone without going below 50%. While playing half heartedly. All I do is check for a chief/boss. If they arent present I can go yolo. The more I kill at once the faster I can bank.

Make them stronger so a single player cant take a 'party' alone without it being a risk.

Make Ranged mobs stay at range. FFS. Just this would increase the difficulty quite a bit. And this is what we mean with improve AI. We dont want anything crazy just make them not dumb as rocks.

I don't really disagree, just laying out what the trend of development seems to be. We had REALLY hard mobs at one point, and they got nerfed down super hard to make them easier  to farm.

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