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MMO World / Haters


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4 minutes ago, mysticque said:

I do love being part of my guild and its community. However, I do have a lot of friends that play the game on the fly and do not want to get involve with daily activities as part of their routine. This really pushes the limit how much players are willing to invest in this game. If you are a casual player you will be subjective towards priorities for gear/vessels/training cap points and possibly even the guild itself. They need to make it viable for solo players.

See this kind of mentality is exactly what I'm talking about.

They don't need to make it viable for solo players. They don't need to make everything overly simplified so people who only want to spend an hour a week can play and feel successful. If you feel they do, maybe this isn't the game for you.

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4 minutes ago, Magrathea said:

See this kind of mentality is exactly what I'm talking about.

They don't need to make it viable for solo players. They don't need to make everything overly simplified so people who only want to spend an hour a week can play and feel successful. If you feel they do, maybe this isn't the game for you.

why are you afraid of the challenge?

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Just now, mysticque said:

who said it has to be something specific. this game has a lot of potential but right now they delving into one perspective which is spiraling downwards old genre. the faction, the absurd crafting, limited capacity, idk if this is going to progress even better or worst. tbh SB had more fruition at the end of its era at least there's playerbase for errants.

The flaw with your position, in my opinion, is that you think that because not every is interested that this is somehow a flaw in the game. It's not. Not everyone is interested in Chess, but more than enough people are.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about solo ganking play. That kind of game play will make it into the game, even if it's simply a matter of emergent game play. Despite Shadowbane being incredibly focused on GvG game play, a vast majority of my time in the game was playing as an Errant theif, built for stealing, running away, and horrible at combat. In Eve, the game doesn't go out of its way to support piracy or mining, but many players enjoy that play style and are successful at it. Hell, 90% of Eve solo play is simply playing the market and transporting goods. To the average players, playing space Excel isn't exactly a fun evening, but there are enough players out there that find enough enjoyment in it that they pretty much power the entire economy.

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3 minutes ago, zenasprime said:

The flaw with your position, in my opinion, is that you think that because not every is interested that this is somehow a flaw in the game. It's not. Not everyone is interested in Chess, but more than enough people are.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about solo ganking play. That kind of game play will make it into the game, even if it's simply a matter of emergent game play. Despite Shadowbane being incredibly focused on GvG game play, a vast majority of my time in the game was playing as an Errant theif, built for stealing, running away, and horrible at combat. In Eve, the game doesn't go out of its way to support piracy or mining, but many players enjoy that play style and are successful at it. Hell, 90% of Eve solo play is simply playing the market and transporting goods. To the average players, playing space Excel isn't exactly a fun evening, but there are enough players out there that find enough enjoyment in it that they pretty much power the entire economy.

All i'm saying is that they accommodate everyone not just specific kind of players. In the end if I feel frustrated playing this game at least I wont have to go back to one of my old games.

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1 minute ago, mysticque said:

All i'm saying is that they accommodate everyone not just specific kind of players. In the end if I feel frustrated playing this game at least I wont have to go back to one of my old games.

Maybe over time they could add more game play in, but they really do need to focus on the core game, which is the Guild vs Guild and the Faction vs Faction. If that doesn't feel good at launch, then their core audience, players from Shadowbane, Eve, etc, won't be interested. Hell most of us are a bit miffed by the NPE and are asking why we are being forced to do leveling/questing content when we want to just jump right into PvP.

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1 hour ago, mysticque said:

I do love being part of my guild and its community. However, I do have a lot of friends that play the game on the fly and do not want to get involve with daily activities as part of their routine. This really pushes the limit how much players are willing to invest in this game. If you are a casual player you will be subjective towards priorities for gear/vessels/training cap points and possibly even the guild itself. They need to make it viable for solo players.

its a throne war mmo, not a single player game >>>>.And the crafting system is what alot of ppl love about this game.to each their own but sounds like u should play fornite and have ur insta play that ur looking for.

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3 minutes ago, Spunky said:

its a throne war mmo, not a single player game >>>>.And the crafting system is what alot of ppl love about this game.to each their own but sounds like u should play fornite and have ur insta play that ur looking for.

I do not even play fortnite. If you think that I'm only looking for instant satisfaction I can just go back to Dota2 and be done with it. But this isn't the only game in development that has extensive crafting. Amazon is developing a new version LOTRO which has much more fluid mechanic and has plenty of sense than this game can offer. I love shadowbane because of its unique sieging mechanic and the core reason I am playing this game because of that legacy they promised will be made available to this game. If you think you can throw that card "this game is not made for me" I could say the same crap to you.

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14 hours ago, mysticque said:

Not only that this have been very catastrophic choice but why pick Unity over Unreal? If they wanted to make this a successful sieging they have much better flow to go with Unreal.

Counter question: how a game engine with realistic graphics and much more demanding resources would be better than stylised graphics engine for the game performance? Have you ever asked yourself why all modern shooter games (Overwatch, Fortnite, Valorant, etc.) released with stylised graphics and did not use Unreal for realistic graphics?

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17 hours ago, mysticque said:

All i'm saying is that they accommodate everyone not just specific kind of players. In the end if I feel frustrated playing this game at least I wont have to go back to one of my old games.

One of the problems MMOs have had over the years is trying to please everybody. Sure it's lead to some good innovations, but the games have largely lost their soul. History is littered with MMOs that were constantly shifting their focus and ultimately committing suicide (Star Wars Galaxies is probably the most egregious example).

IMO the devs need to figure out what their game is. Define what the foundations of the game area and let that guide your decisions.

Right now this game is a Guild v. Guild, Faction v. Faction sandbox PvP game, where those groups compete for supremacy in a series of campaigns that begin and end.

It is not a solo-friendly, quest-driven theme-park MMO where you raid two days a week to get gear and otherwise don't need to interact with other players.

Moving away from the former to get to the latter will just water down the game and lead to its demise.

Sticking with the former and continuing to iterate on it should create a good, niche MMO with a hearty shelf life and dedicated fans.

 

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On 9/14/2020 at 2:07 PM, mysticque said:

I'm very thankful there's still quite a number of players that are excited for this game. I think the core issue is on their design team. Not only that this have been very catastrophic choice but why pick Unity over Unreal? If they wanted to make this a successful sieging they have much better flow to go with Unreal. On top of that they employed an in-depth crafting mechanics which is completely contingent to how much time investment you have put into your passive skill tree.
 

This kind of game era ended like 10yrs ago. This is why the new generation players only go for MOBA because they are sick of how these game/developers operate and mostly they have absurd cash shop system. If you want to get more playerbase they need to adapt to the new generation and compete like how MOBA has been successful over these many years.

I am not trying to cast shade but are you a developer? I am a game developer student and have learned like every engine out there on the market. Everyone talks about how Unreal is the better engine and its total hogwash in the fact that Unreal is better for some games. I have tons of experience working with both engines and I would say Unity was the smart choice as its very easy to add features into your game without having to redeploy. The game would look different in Unreal but as far as their choice affecting the content they are adding is because of their choice of engine is completely an ignorant thing to say. Also it based on what language the developers are coding in and in this case they are well versed in C#. Most  Unity games are coded in C# so it was the logical choice. How would coding in Unreal be more effective in the siege mechanics if the programmers are coding in C#. Makes no sense what so ever. Most people not informed that Unity is just as powerful than Unreal the issues that you are dealing with in game are conflicts within the programmers own code. This happens often during a games testing cycle/alpha/beta. The headache of it all is literally scanning lines and lines of code to find the exact solution for the issue. Unity is not the reason its human error.  

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9 hours ago, ComradeAma said:

Counter question: how a game engine with realistic graphics and much more demanding resources would be better than stylised graphics engine for the game performance? Have you ever asked yourself why all modern shooter games (Overwatch, Fortnite, Valorant, etc.) released with stylised graphics and did not use Unreal for realistic graphics?

its not even how the game looks its more of stability and capacity. Unity is not meant for larger scale combat and even if they can pull it off it won't have that consistency.

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1 minute ago, mysticque said:

its not even how the game looks its more of stability and capacity. Unity is not meant for larger scale combat and even if they can pull it off it won't have that consistency.

Is Unreal engine meant for the large scale combat? If you have such a deep knowledge of the subject, I would like to get a list of engines which are designed for the large scale combat on market.

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this is my 2nd unity game. the first one cities: skylines. once fully built up cities can crash your game and thats freaking solo player mode. you don't even need to be online to play that game.

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2 hours ago, ComradeAma said:

Is Unreal engine meant for the large scale combat? If you have such a deep knowledge of the subject, I would like to get a list of engines which are designed for the large scale combat on market.

Looking at performance, doesn't seem like any engine is capable of large scale, regardless if it was meant to have it or not.

CU's engine was specifically made for large scale, but the rest of development is just a mess unfortunately.

There are more larger scale games (MMOs) built with whatever version of Unreal over the years with varying success of performance compared to Unity. Not sure if this is for a particular reason or not.

Looking at what Ashes of Creation's team is doing with Unreal, I do wonder what Crowfall would of been like using it or something else. AoC is also supposed to have larger scale PVP and PVE siege systems so will be interesting to compare.

ACE hyped up the choice to go with Unity and how quickly, easy, cheaper they'd push out a game. 5 years later, it doesn't seem to have mattered much. Pick an engine and enjoy 15 FPS. 😩

 


 

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2 hours ago, ComradeAma said:

Is Unreal engine meant for the large scale combat? If you have such a deep knowledge of the subject, I would like to get a list of engines which are designed for the large scale combat on market.

I am not sure there is a viable off the shelf engine for mmo's. Most have to be created from scratch or else they share the same fates around 50 players, unless they offload functions to the client enabling rampant hacking or slow/dumb down combat. There is a reason other mmo dev's have stated publicly that using unity was one of their worst mistakes.

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On 9/14/2020 at 7:29 PM, Magrathea said:

Seems like a lot of the folks who are posting dramatic 'I'm done!' posts weren't the target demographic of this game anyway.

Those who post dramatic "I´m done!" are not even 1 percent of those ACE couldn´t reach and hold. And probably this 1 percent would have stayed if the NPE wasn´t that bad off topic.
The NPE is like "come, I take you by the hand and guide you in 45 minutes footstep by footstep half way through a lvl 30 PvE world where other players aren´t important at all". Nothing of the NPE represents the endgame (which is everything but the first two hours or less if you sacrifice) of Crowfall. In fact it´s more so the opposite of Crowfall.

There is no hand holding at all after lvl 30, so the NPE should be a bit more demanding. And it should be centered around how to group up for certain objectives like defending or attacking a keep, caravan or harvester.

Edited by DoomYa

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