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Opinion: 6.2 is missing the mark


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Let me preface this by saying that as a theorycrafter I am excited for the class changes coming with this patch. No doubt I will be busy in the lab after it releases. However, I'm also disappointed that the devs are choosing to keep us on a predetermined path by having multiple build restrictions in place (it doesn't need to be completely open but it could be loosened). Builds have been and are still dependent on where the devs choose to lineup nodes. This doesn't promote build diversity, It hinders it. There are already some mandatory nodes in 6.2 (varied by the current classes shown) so the idea that we will have 15 points to "spend how we want" is false. Classes should have been made whole again and the talent tree should have had more fresh ideas integrated. Nevertheless, I've tried to mostly stay silent until after I test 6.2 with exception being a big issue with Sanctifier Confessor and the following: 

The "Minor" problem: I'm glad that both majors and two minors are now baseline but majors appear to have been cut in effectiveness and now share more of the burden of character power. Having the third minor cost a talent point suggests other options will equal the power, passive, and overall versatility of a minor. I do not believe anything in a talent tree will ever be able to compete unless only 2 of 100 options are good. The third minor slot will undoubtedly be meta because versatility, practicality, and effectiveness have always been the key pillars guiding competent PvP builds. Niche choices are hardly effective for an environment with many confounding variables unless they are ridiculously overpowered enough to provide real value (like zerg bomb builds in prior mmos).  In short, whatever keeps me ready for 60%+ of plausible situations is the go to for any build. As an example, with the Knight, how is stamina or mount speed going to be a choice over Overwhelming Odds or Armor of Faith? They will provide effective hp, increase with quality, and grant an active or passive power respectively. Obviously, those stat bundles will never compete but that's the situation coming with 6.2. Please give us all three minors again instead of limiting builds to 14 points. 

 

Edited by AceSiN
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On 10/13/2020 at 1:58 PM, pamintandrei said:

Wait until they reveal that all aoes are still capped at 5 players so we will still be in blob vs blob meta, so the "new meta" will play exactly the same as the old one but with other animations.

I'd love it the other way around. Very low base damage for AoE, that then increases depending on number of targets hit. Create some counterplay to blobbing and give players a reason to develop tactical awareness beyond "Stand next to your friends". An added bonus is that it would slightly offset raw numbers advantage in fights.

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lack of versatility ?
Let's do some quick maths :

we have ~40 combination between races and classes ( a round it to make calculation easier )
for each we have 3 promotions, and for each 3 domain, so we have 360 options.

Assuming each path have 10 mandatory point and we have only 5 to make our build over 10 viable node, it's 252 path.

With only the half best : 180 * 126 : 22 680 not so bad build

and i doesn't count the runes ( most certainly 10 major and 10 minors for each of those combinations )

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10 hours ago, Aedius said:

lack of versatility ?
Let's do some quick maths :

we have ~40 combination between races and classes ( a round it to make calculation easier )
for each we have 3 promotions, and for each 3 domain, so we have 360 options.

Assuming each path have 10 mandatory point and we have only 5 to make our build over 10 viable node, it's 252 path.

With only the half best : 180 * 126 : 22 680 not so bad build

and i doesn't count the runes ( most certainly 10 major and 10 minors for each of those combinations )

No disrespect intended but what are you talking about? I know my verbiage can be a bit much at times but maybe I wasn't clear enough. If we look at value per point, there is nothing that comes close to gaining a power, a passive, and scalability wrapped into one node. I'm talking about a single point spent here not your race, class, and promotion that will ALL have access to this same node. That's all irrelevant because the big change in 6.2 is the talent tree system and domains and although they work together for the big picture they also work independently of one another. All of your math was pointless in the scope of my post pertaining to the versatility and effectiveness of a minor slot compared to me picking mount speed or stamina as a knight. On the other hand, your math proved my point even further. Those combinations only help to reinforce the reality that will be everyone having that minor slot in their build. There's actually nothing they could add next to the minor slots to not make it BiS for everyone in all situations. Minor, like Majors, provide too much value to ignore in 6.1 (where most are bad) and they will surely provide even more if more are supposed to have been improved. 

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13 hours ago, Aedius said:

lack of versatility ?
Let's do some quick maths :

we have ~40 combination between races and classes ( a round it to make calculation easier )
for each we have 3 promotions, and for each 3 domain, so we have 360 options.

Assuming each path have 10 mandatory point and we have only 5 to make our build over 10 viable node, it's 252 path.

With only the half best : 180 * 126 : 22 680 not so bad build

and i doesn't count the runes ( most certainly 10 major and 10 minors for each of those combinations )

Quality vs Quantity.

There aren't thousands of builds that actually change how someone plays their character. Picking 400 health or 100 AP doesn't make for a new experience.

They've so far shown a lot more interesting things then the current linear/vertical stat talent system, but my guess is we'll still only see a few builds being viable picks most of the time. However, if all 33 promos are now viable, that is a big improvement. Just seem to be 2 steps forward, 1 step back instead of 5 steps forward designing.

 


 

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1 hour ago, Arkdin said:

Let's just reserve judgement until we see the entire system.

I'm with you, but when we see it, then what?

I want to see it to judge, but so far seems like they still haven't managed to capture what they hyped up recently or far back as kickstarter. (Shadowbane like customization)

Giant, Barbarian, Vampyre, Werewolf, Gladiator, Archer. It sounds ridiculous, but we let you do it. - Blair

No, no, you don't.

 


 

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44 minutes ago, Staff said:

what is your sanctifier problem, i for one am very excited to play sanctifier 

I'm excited as well, especially for the much needed gap closer.  However, the "hard choices" of column 3 are skills that should be baseline. Sanctifier is a brawler spec that offense is just as important as its defense since sustain and CC are its weakness. Your ability to heal, mitigate damage, and regen mana is the worst of all tanks. I've made several characters without Fervor and I always find myself looking at my mana whenever I'm trying to maintain pressure on a target. Of course this doesn't matter as much if I'm in a zerg fight where one side just swarms the other in seconds. Nevertheless, I'm primarily a small-scale/1vX player and the cracks show heavily if the fight doesn't end quickly. 

1) Without Fervor, you'll find yourself mid-fight idling by waiting for mana regen ticks to at least be able to left click. It's a must and yet it still doesn't make up for the mana weakness entirely but it does become manageable. Additionally, 6.2 Sanctifier passive will enhance this skill further to give you some degree of defense when being pounded on. Without a point here, you're losing out on a benefit to your spec choice (devaluing your point). 

2) Absolution is a must have. Circling back to the point that your offense is also your defense, leaving this on the table is build suicide unless you're some weird no damage group support confessor build (idk why you wouldn't do that on any other class). It interacts with your class mechanic (sin), gives you single-target damage that make you a threat, and the range helps you to maintain the "dead zone" you can utilize when facing other melees, to lessen your received damage. 

3) Codemnation is arguably not as important, in isolation, because it has some design issues of its own (melees shouldn't channel self-root skills unless the effects are tide-turning). Ignoring numbers, it's clearly meant to be the healing sustain option for the tank. The exclusive talent Spitting Distance buffs it by 150%, makes it heal, and adds barrier to your Firebolt skill. Lets say the heal is still poorly scaled, the barrier function being on a mobile ability will undoubtedly be important to play your role properly. 
Side note: I think Righteousness will no longer give us a proc barrier (+50% resist to physical damage) so our durability could potentially be worst even with these talents.

This equals 6 points already spent at the very start of the tree. I have no doubts that the the third minor slot will be meta so I'd argue 7/15 are already used. Best case it's 5 because you'll skip condemnation due to poor damage/healing and it inherently being unreliable as a self-rooting channel (you'll be CCed, target will move, or it'll just sit on your bar until the ideal situation presents itself). It's also important to realize how much of the Confessor's class identity is tied to the talent tree and divided up as "hard choices." Which will at least affect 2/3 specs. 
 

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