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A Brief Look at the Cleric - Talent Tree


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Today, we are sharing a first look at the Cleric and how it evolves in the new system.  In context, in the Livestream, we touched on the fact that in the current system character specialization is based on the choice of Race, Class, Promotion Class, and Discipline Choices. With the new system, we are adding another layer, Domains. Domains expand the depth of choices within your Promotion Class, offering greater diversity with more options that allow players to build more layered and uniquely distinct and powerful characters. 

Watch the October Livestream here

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A Brief Look at the Champion - Talent Tree

A Brief Look at the Myrmidon - Talent Tree

A Brief Look at the Cleric - Talent Tree

A Brief Look at the Frostweaver - Talent Tree

A Brief Look at the Druid - Talent Tree

 

ClrcMiracle_022-Gif.gif

 

 

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

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Isn't Arbiter melee control instead of ranged control then? If i read that it does not get throwing hammer prof (only for Radical)

Will certainly be an impact for the Crusader's healer soul power generation to only be melee.

Ah, the days of legio rage melee healing...

rip cleric bard, no music domain. unless on a race/class.

-

<nervous druid noises>

Edited by Tinnis
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48 minutes ago, yianni said:

as far as talents go i still dont see hard choices. it seems like certain talents are tailored to certain promotions. and most of the talents will be must haves for certain promos

making rez optional is great, no ones gonna be getting rezed now haha

 

Yea the path choices are obvious and more so once you spend the points in your head to see your reach. If any build variety comes out of this new system it's solely crutching on how your accessible disciplines will affect the class. It's just another reason why the devs should move away from this "node lineup" system. 

Edited by AceSiN
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9 minutes ago, AceSiN said:

Yea the path choices are obvious and more so once you spend the points in your head to see your reach. If any build variety comes out of this new system it's solely crutching on how your accessible disciplines will affect the class. It's just another reason why the devs should move away from this "node lineup" system. 

Agreed - you want difficult choices, let people select anywhere on the tree for their points up to promotion. 

 

Edited by Spawl
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I think you guys let this bake in the oven too long before collecting player feedback. The reduced number of choices (from 30 down to 15), the still rather obvious talent decisions due to strong vs. underpowered nodes, and the significant pruning of post-promotion talents are all design decisions that just leave me feeling sad.

  • Holy Symbol – Radical promotion no longer gets to choose if they want to convert Holy Symbol to additional DPS or retain a support ability. It’s just baked in.
  • Stat Bundle 1 – Is that a choice?
  • Promotion Talents – only 2 talents and both are must-haves. Also, if the final talent is just a stat dump like previewed for the Ranger, it’s going to be the most unsatisfactory class capstone talent in the history of game design.

Are the current trees perfect? No. But most of what they did right has been excised completely. Further, I think the subjective “importance” of a decision is being overvalued compared to the volume of decisions. 30 distinct choices feels much better than 15-still-meh choices.

Constructive criticism from other class previews:

  1. Stat Bundles: It seems that nodes were just consolidated without any consideration if the stats were even of value.
  2. Layers of build diversity: Talents should be a way to distinguish your class and promotion class from others. The new design removes any versatility from promotion classes other than discipline. Disciplines should be an additional layer of diversity. They should not be the only distinction between promotion class talents.
  3. Pathing vs. Actual Decision Making -  I still advocate for a point threshold system to unlock the next tier of talents, rather than a pathing system. If ACE’s sincere goal is to influence important and difficult decisions, then pathing is just an illusion of that. Many builds require certain base stats or one specific ability here or there. With pathing, there are very few unique variations to get those stats or that one needed active. Whereas a point threshold system would allow for a huge variety of distinct combinations and create meaningful choice by requiring players to choose one of 3 or 4 options at certain junctures. Just an example:

Ranger_Revised.jpg?width=1002&height=702

Edited by LlFE
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5 minutes ago, LlFE said:

I think you guys let this bake in the oven too long before collecting player feedback. The reduced number of choices (from 30 down to 15), the still rather obvious talent decisions due to strong vs. underpowered nodes, and the significant pruning of post-promotion talents are all design decisions that just leave me feeling sad.

  • Holy Symbol – Radical promotion no longer gets to choose if they want to convert Holy Symbol to additional DPS or retain a support ability. It’s just baked in.
  • Stat Bundle 1 – Is that a choice?

 

 

1: you dont want it as a heal on radical it is never viable even with end game jewelry and weapons stacked with support power
2: Yes actually i already know a build that wont take it
 

hoayaga2.jpg

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10 hours ago, Tinnis said:

Isn't Arbiter melee control instead of ranged control then? If i read that it does not get throwing hammer prof (only for Radical)

Will certainly be an impact for the Crusader's healer soul power generation to only be melee.

Ah, the days of legio rage melee healing...

rip cleric bard, no music domain. unless on a race/class.

-

<nervous druid noises>

Incoming Hoistin' Holy Hammer major disc to fill the gap.  Grants access to the throwing hammers and a magical echo passive where your third LMB has a 50% chance for your God to answer the call with a hammer of their own on your target for 200 + 100% weapon damage. 

Second passive is an Aura of Holiness that shines around you at all times, occasionally blinding targets who strike you within 15m.

Edited by Van_Zant
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7 hours ago, LlFE said:

I think you guys let this bake in the oven too long before collecting player feedback. The reduced number of choices (from 30 down to 15), the still rather obvious talent decisions due to strong vs. underpowered nodes, and the significant pruning of post-promotion talents are all design decisions that just leave me feeling sad.

  • Holy Symbol – Radical promotion no longer gets to choose if they want to convert Holy Symbol to additional DPS or retain a support ability. It’s just baked in.
  • Stat Bundle 1 – Is that a choice?
  • Promotion Talents – only 2 talents and both are must-haves. Also, if the final talent is just a stat dump like previewed for the Ranger, it’s going to be the most unsatisfactory class capstone talent in the history of game design.

Are the current trees perfect? No. But most of what they did right has been excised completely. Further, I think the subjective “importance” of a decision is being overvalued compared to the volume of decisions. 30 distinct choices feels much better than 15-still-meh choices.

Constructive criticism from other class previews:

  1. Stat Bundles: It seems that nodes were just consolidated without any consideration if the stats were even of value.
  2. Layers of build diversity: Talents should be a way to distinguish your class and promotion class from others. The new design removes any versatility from promotion classes other than discipline. Disciplines should be an additional layer of diversity. They should not be the only distinction between promotion class talents.
  3. Pathing vs. Actual Decision Making -  I still advocate for a point threshold system to unlock the next tier of talents, rather than a pathing system. If ACE’s sincere goal is to influence important and difficult decisions, then pathing is just an illusion of that. Many builds require certain base stats or one specific ability here or there. With pathing, there are very few unique variations to get those stats or that one needed active. Whereas a point threshold system would allow for a huge variety of distinct combinations and create meaningful choice by requiring players to choose one of 3 or 4 options at certain junctures. Just an example:

Ranger_Revised.jpg?width=1002&height=702

As players we will always take the best “build” and mathematically speaking there will always be one.  They absolutely could add a few more choices but most of them still won’t be taken, just whatever the best is.  All talents in all the game are just illusions of Choice. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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