Crowfall The Revival Update Beta Build 6.200.0 - October 22

[DEV-Tiggs 4,045]

We are ready to start the final testing of our next release of Crowfall, now available on the TEST (playtest) server:  Crowfall The Revival Update 6.200. To join the battle on TEST, you will need to download and install the latest TEST version here: crowfall.com/en/client and click on the <Download Test Patcher> button about halfway down the page.

Talent trees have undergone a complete overhaul! All talent nodes will now cost 1 talent point, with the exception of discipline nodes. Discipline nodes can be unlocked at no cost at levels 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 (via an isolated branch at the bottom of the tree window). Additionally, you will only gain 1 talent point every other level (meaning that at level 30, you should have had 15 total talent points to spend in your tree). Choose wisely! For more information about the changes to Talent Trees, visit our news page for each class reveal. 

Promotional specializations have been updated or redefined for many classes.

Major and Minor Disciplines have been completely revamped - powers granted by each discipline have been reorganized and/or renamed to fit the theme of that discipline. Many have requirements based on the character’s race, class, or Domain selections. Additionally, some powers which were previously available to a class are now available via the appropriate Discipline.

Click here to review the rest of the Update notes.  

 

If you have a client crash, please contact support@crowfall.com.

To report any issues or bugs, please go here: 6.200 TEST Bug Reports
To report feedback, please go here: 6.200 TEST Feedback
For an up-to-date list of known issues please go here: Known Issues

[MacDeath 1,032]

WOOT! /salute ACE

[yneternum 30]

@ACE-Tiggs I suppose it will be same on Live, right?

[MacDeath 1,032]

1 hour ago, yneternum said:

@ACE-Tiggs I suppose it will be same on Live, right?

During the Q&A they said they didn't know yet how extensive a wipe would be needed when 6.2 goes to Live.  On Test a full wipe is no big deal as you can quickly recreate what you want / need.

[PaleOne 1,391]

So Far it feels like a Nerf rather than an expansion of options.

 

duelists now need to dedicate all their disciplines to get the skills we used to get automatically ...

tunnel/ go for broke/ recon etc 

[Galahorn 67]

Sure not a nerf to all classes, just a slight one to the most broken one! 

I personally really like the flexibility the new system gives. You can build a bow critical damage based templar if you want now!

[footofgork 14]

Are the test servers down or something? Ive tried multiple times today and it wont let me log in. I wish we had some form of Server Status on the Forums....If there is one I can't seem to find one

[DEV-Tiggs 4,045]

32 minutes ago, footofgork said:

Are the test servers down or something? Ive tried multiple times today and it wont let me log in. I wish we had some form of Server Status on the Forums....If there is one I can't seem to find one

We are continuing to investigate an issue with players that have an IPv6 connection being unable to connect to the TEST Server.  If you are attempting to log into TEST now and are unable to connect, you can try the following:

Right click the network symbol at bottom right of your task bar and Open Network & Internet Settings
Change adapter options
Right click, Properties, scroll down to Internet Protocol Version 6 and uncheck, then OK
 

[footofgork 14]

13 hours ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

We are continuing to investigate an issue with players that have an IPv6 connection being unable to connect to the TEST Server.  If you are attempting to log into TEST now and are unable to connect, you can try the following:

Right click the network symbol at bottom right of your task bar and Open Network & Internet Settings
Change adapter options
Right click, Properties, scroll down to Internet Protocol Version 6 and uncheck, then OK
 

Awesome. Thank you for the update!

[Jarros 6]

@ACE-TiggsWhen is the Runestone Catalog being released on Test? I've seen it in the news posts, but can't find it game. I'm having a difficult time finding disciplines I want, or just discovering which ones are in what domains. My eyes start to blur over and hurt trying to look through them all on the vendors.

This level of complexity requires an in-game method of sorting and filtering. It really should have been part of this release.

[yianni 1,758]

when will the shadowbane customization hit test?

[APE 3,597]

1 hour ago, yianni said:

when will the shadowbane customization hit test?

Even though I only played SB briefly at launch, I can easily go to a site like morloch and see what was possible. No clue how they believe 6.2 is anything like SB.

They've had no issue copy/pasting other things from SB, not sure why they are so stuck trying to re-invent the wheel in this area.

I don't see anyone asking for what they are trying so hard to get us to like. They are actively doing the opposite of what players have been asking for. Such a waste of resources for a company that uses limited resources as an excuse.

[Arkdin 139]

25 minutes ago, APE said:

Even though I only played SB briefly at launch, I can easily go to a site like morloch and see what was possible. No clue how they believe 6.2 is anything like SB.

They've had no issue copy/pasting other things from SB, not sure why they are so stuck trying to re-invent the wheel in this area.

I don't see anyone asking for what they are trying so hard to get us to like. They are actively doing the opposite of what players have been asking for. Such a waste of resources for a company that uses limited resources as an excuse.

Shadowbane's system is impossible to implement at this point for a multitude of reasons.  I think they followed what they viewed as shadowbane's level of customization which is being a "guinicean duelist/slayer/nightstalker/unholy beast". 

You've heard both Jtodd and Blair talk about class customization that way.  I think they mistook WHY shadowbane had the depth that it did.  The skill point/stat rune/starter runes were just as if not more important than the actual discs.  I know a ton of people would go sundancer or bladeweaver solely for the dual wielding.

[APE 3,597]

44 minutes ago, Arkdin said:

Shadowbane's system is impossible to implement at this point for a multitude of reasons.  I think they followed what they viewed as shadowbane's level of customization which is being a "guinicean duelist/slayer/nightstalker/unholy beast". 

You've heard both Jtodd and Blair talk about class customization that way.  I think they mistook WHY shadowbane had the depth that it did.  The skill point/stat rune/starter runes were just as if not more important than the actual discs.  I know a ton of people would go sundancer or bladeweaver solely for the dual wielding.

Difficult and costly but not impossible.

They could add in the Advantages & Disadvantages system, make base stats have more value to all builds so that it isn't about dumping all leveling points into 1 stat, Vessel/Gear building stats could be greatly expanded, and they could make Major Disc that actually offer game changing "sub-classes" (Werebear, weapon unlocks, pets, tracking).

Don't expect any of that anytime soon, but something to go after post-launch if the game doesn't flop hard.

Guess for me it is misleading to say they are trying for SB customization when they should know that their current version's limitations don't allow it. 5+ years in, I expect less empty hype. No need to live in Shadowbane's shadow.

[Arkdin 139]

1 hour ago, APE said:

Difficult and costly but not impossible.

They could add in the Advantages & Disadvantages system, make base stats have more value to all builds so that it isn't about dumping all leveling points into 1 stat, Vessel/Gear building stats could be greatly expanded, and they could make Major Disc that actually offer game changing "sub-classes" (Werebear, weapon unlocks, pets, tracking).

Don't expect any of that anytime soon, but something to go after post-launch if the game doesn't flop hard.

Guess for me it is misleading to say they are trying for SB customization when they should know that their current version's limitations don't allow it. 5+ years in, I expect less empty hype. No need to live in Shadowbane's shadow.

Yeah, nothings technically impossible.  Impractical based on time/budgetary constraints though which makes it functionally impossible.  I agree with you though.  Referring back to shadowbane just gets peoples minds in the wrong place.

[MacDeath 1,032]

2 hours ago, APE said:

Difficult and costly but not impossible.

They could add in the Advantages & Disadvantages system, make base stats have more value to all builds so that it isn't about dumping all leveling points into 1 stat, Vessel/Gear building stats could be greatly expanded, and they could make Major Disc that actually offer game changing "sub-classes" (Werebear, weapon unlocks, pets, tracking).

Don't expect any of that anytime soon, but something to go after post-launch if the game doesn't flop hard.

Guess for me it is misleading to say they are trying for SB customization when they should know that their current version's limitations don't allow it. 5+ years in, I expect less empty hype. No need to live in Shadowbane's shadow.

I don't think ACE said that 6.2 is going to give us ShadowBane like customization. But I did hear JTood say he wanted the design team to go back and look at what they did with SB and to make CF more customizable. Now many players may have picked up on that as meaning CF will become more SB like but it isn't happening with 6.2 IMO.

Note to @jtoddcolemanwords matter. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by MacDeath

[Armegeddon 1,318]

15 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

I don't think ACE sais that 6.2 is going to give us ShadowBane like customization. But I did hear JTood say he wanted the design team to go back and look at what they did with SB and to make CF more customizable. Now many players may have picked up on that as meaning CF will become more SB like but it isn't happening with 6.2 IMO.

Note to @jtoddcolemanwords matter. 

I hate talking about SB, because people roll their eyes.. but.. The starting trait specialization and manipulation of stat points was amazing. If they can find a way.. do it for sure.

[APE 3,597]

18 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

I don't think ACE sais that 6.2 is going to give us ShadowBane like customization. But I did hear JTood say he wanted the design team to go back and look at what they did with SB and to make CF more customizable. Now many players may have picked up on that as meaning CF will become more SB like but it isn't happening with 6.2 IMO.

Note to @jtoddcolemanwords matter. 

Luckily we don't have to rely on our memory, easy enough to read/hear what they've said.

JTC seems very proud of how open and customizable Shadowbane was. Even when trying to open up Crowfall's model, they are sticking with a rather restrictive system. They added more superficial complexity but aren't allowing us to explore it fully.

Which seems to be what ACE is missing. Having a billion possibilities but locking players down every step of the way isn't fun.

I don't believe people expect them to actually copy Shadowbane, but the way they are approaching customization is still a good ways away from Shadowbane.

Two steps forward, one step back. Not sure if it is a design goal that they want to hang on to because "hard choices" are so fun 🙃 or they are just missing the mark in execution.

What JTC said he wanted and what 6.2 is don't seem to be the same.

They've used examples like "centaur warrior gladiator bounty hunter werewolf" as an example of what is possible in Shadowbane when talking about what they want for Crowfall. Promos are getting better at becoming more unique branches of base classes, but Disciplines are not sub-classes. To me it is misleading to use such examples as hype fuel. I hope one day they get there, but until then, leave it a lone. This isn't Kickstarter get our money with hype mode anymore. 

------------------------------------

These are autotext quotes from JTC from recent streams:

i literally told them go back and look at shadowbane i want that level of customization and configuration of our races and our classes and our disciplines because shadowbane was i still i still think it's one of the things i'm proudest of is it was unique in that it was a completely open-ended character build system i mean you could build a centaur gladiator warlord hunter bounty hunter or you know like this ridiculous scout it's like ridiculous list that made up your class and if you were like i'm all those things except instead of scout i'm a werewolf that was a totally different character build so we're gonna go back to that now and i think you guys are gonna see it it's a little bit risky because it means the game is gonna get even more um uh deep right

----

it was the best job i've ever seen of a game having completely open character build uh possibilities right you had a combination between races and classes and advantages and disadvantages and all of the disciplines you could make all sorts of crazy combinations you could make a centaur warrior gladiator bounty hunter werewolf if you wanted to and so what i basically felt like was the crowfall system while it was very robust was also very siloed characters were basically stuck into pre-defined um character builds and i didn't like that so ... i thought it'd be good to get fresh eyes on it and so i asked ray to go in and basically start by auditing shadowbane and seeing how that thing blossomed how the build combinations blossomed then come back and take the existing game that we had with all the existing powers and the existing races and classes because that wasn't really going to change but break the spine of it and open it up and make it blossom in the same way

[Jah 8,370]

19 minutes ago, APE said:

JTC seems very proud of how open and customizable Shadowbane was. Even when trying to open up Crowfall's model, they are sticking with a rather restrictive system. They added more superficial complexity but aren't allowing us to explore it fully.

Which seems to be what ACE is missing. Having a billion possibilities but locking players down every step of the way isn't fun.

Shadowbane had all kinds of restrictions on which races and classes could take which disciplines. You could describe that as "locked down" as well.

Want to be a blade weaver - werewolf?  Nope, only elves can be blade weavers and only humans and aelfborn could be werewolves. Want to be a ranger - dark night? Nope, only warriors and templars could take dark knight. Part of the fun of creating shadowbane characters was working within the numerous constraints on who could take what.

[APE 3,597]

40 minutes ago, Jah said:

Shadowbane had all kinds of restrictions on which races and classes could take which disciplines. You could describe that as "locked down" as well.

Want to be a blade weaver - werewolf?  Nope, only elves can be blade weavers and only humans and aelfborn could be werewolves. Want to be a ranger - dark night? Nope, only warriors and templars could take dark knight. Part of the fun of creating shadowbane characters was working within the numerous constraints on who could take what.

Shadowbane also had a different approach to stats, stat allocation, traits, base/prestige classes, powers granted by classes, disc that actually were "sub-classes," mastery runes and powers, etc. When factoring in all the types and pools of options available, restrictions are less limiting and are fun to navigate. There was actual complexity.

I have no issue with hard choices, but Crowfall's design is limiting due to few systems, ways to manipulate each, and how they work together. It's restriction on top of restriction with any choice potentially greatly limiting further choices resulting in few viable options. The devs are doing too much directing of a superficially complex design.

Hopefully we have more to choose from then before, but don't believe they are approaching anything like Shadowbane with my limited knowledge of it and experience with other games that also do character building well.

I never had an issue filling minor slots or my bar before (they actually added more due to not enough room). Now there simply aren't enough worthwhile choices for some builds due to Domain options and the talent layout. If those builds are bad, then it shows to me that despite all the quantity, the quality choices are lacking.

Allowing us to unlock 1-2 more domains and allowing full or more control over the linear web talent system would open things up a lot more while still having plenty of constraints in place.

Edited October 25, 2020 by APE