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how I would change the current system. X-post from feedback


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Was told this should be its own post, so cross posting here for discussion.

 

Here is an idea of how I would change the current system by just shuffling around a few things. Should not need to create anything new.

 

Here is the current Assassin Tree.

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Here is how I would change it.

unknown.png

 

1. Currently everything in the red circles are mandatory. Combine all of these abilities and stats together and just grant it baseline to every Assassin at level 1. ALSO, grant the class base line domain here. In this case, the Plague domain. All assassins would get the Plague domain just for being as assassin.

2. The promotions. You may choose 1 of these. Keep these exactly the same as they are now.

3. The promotion skills. Currently you are locked into only being able to choose the ones that fall into your promotion. So these are not really a choice. Instead, allow us to choose ANY 2 of the 6 options in this row. We can still only have 2, but we can mix up the builds by picking any 2 we like.

4. Capstones. See above. Let us choose only 1 still, but let us choose any 1 we want.

5. Remaining talents. Start in the center with minor disc. GRANT THIS FOR FREE. Give us 8 points to spend here. This is the same amount of points we had to spend in this area before but there is a lot more freedom to take any path we like. Much less linear. Can still only take 8 of 18 nodes.

6. The remaining 14 domains that are not granted from your base class. Let us pick ANY 1 of these.

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What I think this accomplishes - 

More freedom in character building. More choices. Opens up more creative outside the box builds. All while not granting any more "power" than we have with the current system and not requiring you to build anything new (I think). We would still have an equivalent amount of stat bundles/abilities once all the points are spent.

aeei5jG.png

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Let's just make the center node be the Class rune icon, and you don't need to spend any points or even have to unlock it. Immediately on your first talent point to spend you just choose which direction in the web you want to go.

 

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I've never understood the concept of making the first point in a node-web structure require a point and also require you start with that. It's basically a required choice that gives you no choice.

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This is a better system. It essentially maintains exactly what builds exist now, but greatly increases the amount of unique options and new builds.

I think your sixth point is a pipe-dream, but we could at least have the base class get access to buying any of the promo domains. If some promo can take it, that means they've already got the animations available, so any promo should be able to grab it without any engineering.

I'd do:

6) Offer all available domains to any promo, and allow us to spend as many points unlocking domains as we'd like (0, 1, 2, 3 talent points).

Edited by McTan
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Would a Minor disc drop & equip that grants access to a second domain be too potent?

could limit it to only one domain this way (shared 'unique equip' value).

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or have a 'background' character creation option to pick a desired domain from full list.

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for either could potentially have a themeatic disadvantage lock

e.g. picking Light locks Shadow & Dark etc

Edited by Tinnis
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I caution against the balancing effects too much freedom affords.

The less hard limits you have on this kind of stuff, the more you risk making most of those choices pointless and redundant.

I think a slight reshuffle of the existing base talents with a few more links could be good since the balance assumes access to all of that by any promotion, and beyond that a measured application of adding more domains to more discs, races, and classes where we can judge they don't create a problematic "too good" interaction between discs or promotion kits.

A large part of the lack of diversity we have in 6.1 is a direct result of too much disc freedom and too many tools on the base templates. The result was a small number of very obvious "best builds" for given classes. Promotion classes and domains as limitations are actually a good thing, used appropriately. Mixing promotion talents, for instance, is just a bad idea. What incentive is there at all to NOT take the warden talents in stead on brigand so you have access to stealth with the best trapping buffs? Who would actually choose anything else for a trapper?

Affording too many options with the way this is laid out threatens to create the exact same problem by allowing some interactions between talents that are so extremely potent that taking anything else is just plain suboptimal, in effect massively reducing the number of viable options.

Its a hard line to balance.

 

Edited by PopeUrban

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On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

I caution against the balancing effects too much freedom affords.

The less hard limits you have on this kind of stuff, the more you risk making most of those choices pointless and redundant.

I think a slight reshuffle of the existing base talents with a few more links could be good since the balance assumes access to all of that by any promotion, and beyond that a measured application of adding more domains to more discs, races, and classes where we can judge they don't create a problematic "too good" interaction between discs or promotion kits.

A large part of the lack of diversity we have in 6.1 is a direct result of too much disc freedom and too many tools on the base templates. The result was a small number of very obvious "best builds" for given classes. Promotion classes and domains as limitations are actually a good thing, used appropriately. Mixing promotion talents, for instance, is just a bad idea. What incentive is there at all to NOT take the warden talents in stead on brigand so you have access to stealth with the best trapping buffs? Who would actually choose anything else for a trapper?

Affording too many options with the way this is laid out threatens to create the exact same problem by allowing some interactions between talents that are so extremely potent that taking anything else is just plain suboptimal, in effect massively reducing the number of viable options.

Its a hard line to balance.

 


still a second domain looks like necesary IMO
Maybe grant the 3 minor discipline for free and put a domain node in the minor spot?
Some classes are lacking skills for the skill bar since their base kit was taken out to disciplines. having those skill back (even if the discipline stays) may help.

 

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