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GulDelox

Preventing A Zerg-Fest?

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I'll start by admitting that I am completely new to this community, and I know very little about the game except what I've been able to glean from the FAQ and the Kickstarter.

 

The thing that concerns me most about the faction or guild campaign system is how it will avoid turning into a zerg-fest like World vs. World in GuildWars 2.  In that game, at least when I played in the early days, the tactics quickly devolved into "roam the countryside in a massive clump of people capturing point after point, and whichever massive clump moves the fastest wins".  This works because it's very boring and sometimes impossible to guard strategic points 24/7, so there isn't much resistance to a large enough group just steamrolling through and taking the point.

 

Has there been any information on how the developers plan to prevent this kind of thing from happening?

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Same issue in Planetside 2, especially when the over seas folks log on late at night and tend to heavily favor one faction. Probably the most talked about issue of the game.

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Collision detection and friendly fire will drastically reduce the effectiveness of zerging but I'm much more interested in their approach to region locking. There's nothing worse than waking up every morning to see that half of the map has flipped because of overseas guilds who are active in the wee hours of the morning.

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Oh wow, I didn't know there would be friendly fire.  That's fantastic!

 

You'll be jumping up and down by the time you hear about the rest of the announced features for Crowfall.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Collision detection and friendly fire will drastically reduce the effectiveness of zerging but I'm much more interested in their approach to region locking. There's nothing worse than waking up every morning to see that half of the map has flipped because of overseas guilds who are active in the wee hours of the morning.

The issue with FF is what stops griefers? If you have played archeage you would know even your own faction will turn on your easily and kill you  for fun.

Edited by Infernotez

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The issue with FF is what stops griefers? If you have played archeage you would know even your own faction will turn on your easily and kill you  for fun.

 

I played ArcheAge from alpha up until rumbling saplings were put in the cash shop so I've definitely seen my fair share of same-faction griefing. The only reason that it was so rampant in ArcheAge is because the devs made no effort to deter it. Something along the lines of giving players who consistently kill their own faction a higher chance to drop their own equipment on death would go a long way to prevent griefing, although that approach introduces its own problems (jumping in the line of fire). 

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Hunger may become a issue as well, seeing as you'll have to have more resources to sustain your group/army.

 

The hunger system in and of itself seems like it was designed as more of a resource sink than an actual zerg deterrent. Assuming that there were no other systems in place to deter zerging, a sufficiently large zerg could just capture enough resource generation points to sustain itself.

 

However, if friendly fire and collision detection is able to stop zergs from being able to overwhelm smaller, more organized, groups I could see the hunger system's merit in discouraging zergs.

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The hunger system in and of itself seems like it was designed as more of a resource sink than an actual zerg deterrent. Assuming that there were no other systems in place to deter zerging, a sufficiently large zerg could just capture enough resource generation points to sustain itself.

 

However, if friendly fire and collision detection is able to stop zergs from being able to overwhelm smaller, more organized, groups I could see the hunger system's merit in discouraging zergs.

Well, this and the zerg would constantly have to be in conflict with other factions to obtain more food once it burned through what it could naturally gather, so if your low on food and constantly having to fight for it, coupled with the FF damage, I just can't see it being a viable playstyle in this game. Hopefully.

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I played ArcheAge from alpha up until rumbling saplings were put in the cash shop so I've definitely seen my fair share of same-faction griefing. The only reason that it was so rampant in ArcheAge is because the devs made no effort to deter it. Something along the lines of giving players who consistently kill their own faction a higher chance to drop their own equipment on death would go a long way to prevent griefing, although that approach introduces its own problems (jumping in the line of fire).

 

I played it a lot as well but found when it actually launched and the game had been out a while the prison/karma system actually made people think twice about own faction kills, at first people thought it was funny being in prison but then they realised it was just a pain.

Maybe it was just the server I was on but thought it worked quite well AA had some good features shame about a lot of the other stuff that screwed it up.

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Well, they tried to make it sound like collision would be a factor... but with the freedom of movement, jumping and display of mobility shown so far, I don't see any delivery of that. I also don't see how they intend to apply blocking and friendly fire with these mechanics too.

 

Double Jump... *vomit


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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collison and friendly fire helps. i think there was talk of structual vulnerability windows so euros don't wreck everything while you sleep, but don't quote me on that.

In two words? Friendly Fire.

 

Zergs quickly hit an upper limit of viability when they start accidentally killing each other.

Uh friendly fire didn't halt or fix the zerging problem in Planetside 2.

 

The only known way to fix zerging and an approach another game developer is taking towards their title is to introduce logistical and progression limitations to campaign movements of player armies and the impact and importance of territory and objectives to the overall combat effectiveness of the army.  In other words - location wide or faction wide debuffs or resource restrictions that have a major impact on the combat effectiveness of a zerg if they fail to defend their own holdings.

 

For example: One location provides a particular resource the army requires to maintain a high availability of tanks (btw it's a Science Fiction title), however, if the enemy faction they are fighting sends a small assault team covertly behind enemy lines and takes out the production facility which makes producing tanks quicker, then all of a sudden the enemy has a slowed down to zero access to their vehicles for that campaign, giving the defenders a fighting chance. Also they have it set up that if you go behind enemy lines and take out other strategically important assets, it has other effects such as reduced replenish rate on ammunition stores as well as a lower native income for purchasing and equipping your characters for each new battle once they get killed.

 

If the devs here were to employ a similar method, but also extend it to the point where a zerg simply can't "PlayerVerseDoor" (as in you can't bring down a defensive structure by throwing standard attacks or spells etc etc at the gate";  And it's impossible to bring down a wall or a gate without siege equipment. And in turn Siege Equipment is finite, as in once it's destroyed it's gone for good and the players need to get the resources to build a new one, on top of which if the opponents then decide to deny the enemy access to those resources though directed attacks at the locations where they get them to construct such equipment.  Then in turn it would make taking territory and defended locations much harder.  The big problem with Guild Wars 2 is you can simply buy siege equipment with gold, which is stupid, all it accounts for is, a waste of gold (which has real world value due to the gem store) and gold is very easy to come by to begin with.  By restricting siege engines exclusively to requiring resources and time to construct (and can only be built on the field in the open), it means time and effort must be invested into creating it - also it should be designed so that it can't be transported in someone's item bag.  It can only be transported out in the open, either in a packed state on say a wagon, or by it's own devices (eg has wheels and people have to push it).  This opens up the opportunity for the enemy players to intercept and destroy the siege engines out in the open (ambush) to prevent it's use.

 

Another solution to dealing with zergs is to design the game around role-warfare serving a defined purpose which has a degree of importance; An organized army which has well balanced selection of both ranged and melee and players who group themselves into organised teams should mechanically be able to absorb the impact of a disorganized zerg and in turn smash them to pieces (just like in EVE Online).  Something which (even in the days of Dark Age of Camelot) hasn't been seen in native MMOs.  If the developers build this game around encouraging mechanics which favor tactics such as using a shield wall (players group up in a line of shields) and players using ranged set up behind them, targeting the enemy approaching the wall.  It will quickly encourage organized battlefield combat formation tactics over players aimlessly swarming as being a winning approach.  So far the only games I've seen where this works are the Mount and Blade titles and War of the Roses, neither of which are MMOs.

Edited by Synast

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Now in GLORIOUS 'HDvisioning60fpsblahg'


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