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peekachew

Zerg Restrictions

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Gauis does have a reasonable point however, one sided battles aren't fun and they can have dire long term consequences.

Interestingly from my time in EVE Online, this never really became a problem.  Sure you had guilds/corps like GoonSwarm, that had a huge number of players, but they couldn't take everything, not by a long shot.

 

Which really came down to resources.  Everything in EVE is built by the players, and if you die you lose what you have on you. 

Which in turn means war costs money, lots of it, which requires them to hold territory so they can mine materials and process them into the stuff they need.

Also, travelling takes time, nothing is instantaneous.  Building also takes time, as some ships can take days, weeks, even months to build.

Which in turn greatly limits how much power a large zerg can bring to a fight, and how often they can do that.

 

This means that in order to have a lot of players, you must have a lot of infrastructure to maintain thou's players, which in turn means a lot of territory spread over a large area in all likelihood.   And the more you have, the harder it is to manage and protect all of it.

 

Because also the game gives you lots of inexpensive means to do hit and run tactics, it is quite possible for several smaller group to gnaw away the large zerg, as being big also makes it slower to react and coordinate.  Eventually they hit a point where they can't expand and hold what they have at the same time.

And provided there is enough physical territory, no one guild can hold everything.

This... sounds like a ton of fun.  If nothing else it would be fun to watch play out.

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Sims you say? I'll have to google it.

 

Thanks for the advice. I always built cities before with no walls, no spires, no artillery towers, etc. Just a bunch of citadels to be used as merchant huts. I'll consider this "defense" thing.

 

I'm not going to sit here and debate with you about the definition of play to crush. Yes, that was shadowbane. But

g7ki4.jpg

 

Zerg was a reality of shadowbane. Getting your city destroyed was a reality of shadowbane. My argument isn't about how to change shadowbane or what I didn't like about shadowbane. It's about reality of what keeps a population.

 

 

There will be zerg for sure, if asian players would not be allowed to play here players from other country will form one because usually zerg is a very effective tactic in game like this so asking to close the game for ppl from a part of the world will not solve the problem and seem childish to me. The game must have coded some mechanics that can work well as countermeasure against big numbers so everyone will be able to fight against the resident zerg no matter from where the players using that tactic are playing.


Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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well, I offered another solution in one thread around here, maybe even this one....which was that instanced cities could provide a means in which to limit a hardcoded amount of numbers to a siege. players who want in from the side with too many could be in a queue waiting for the other side to get more on. It's not perfect and everyone hates the idea of instanced cities, so oh well.

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I don't think that's what he is doing or what he wants, your just making assumptions.

As far as I can see he's just raising a potential red flag, something that could very well be a problem.

 

Thing is that I've noticed of your conversation, is that it's kind of nonconstructive. Neither of you have offered solutions or suggestions to make zergs managable, or more fun for everybody.  Your just disagreeing on the magnitude of the problem.

I think the question should be, what role should zergs have in Crowfall?

 

 

I maintain a position that I think a organic solution is the best.  Where the very nature of the game makes it so that zergs can never become too large or too powerful, without also becoming a very large target.  Ie EVE Online.  I've already covered this in detail so feel free to read it. http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/291-zerg-restrictions/?p=6729

 

I do have a question related to SB.  I am willing to guess that characters once you built them and decked out their gear, never again had to replace their gear after death?  Maybe just basic repairs, but that is about it.

Essentially I am asking what was the full death penalty of that game?

 

I'm guessing not much.

Weapons and armor in SB had a durability rating and could break if they weren't repaired. In SB if you died out in the world you respawned in your player owned city and while not safe (you could be killed there) it at least was close to repair facilities. However if you got killed inside your city you respawned in what was called the ruins and there was 6 of them I remember right on the Aerynth mapset and they had no repair facilities only an NPC that would let you open your bank to place things in or take things out. Of course while doing that you were subject to being killed or have your things stolen by a thief if you had them in you inventory bag. So what would happen is Guild X would camp Guild Y's town and send some of their players to all the ruins to wait, usually stealthers such as Assassins, Scouts and Thieves. They would then kill a player from Guild Y sending them to the ruin, when the player stepped out of safemode to go some where else of try to get a summons (There was professions that had a skill to bring another player to your position) they would kill them sending them back to their town. Rinse and Repeat until that players gear broke or they logged out. This happened most often in the first year of the game but still happened later. Now you might think that really ins't that bad of a consequence but you are focusing down to the consequences for that one player, what you forget is that every action in Shadowbane had possible consequences for you Guild not just you.

 

Lets take an example from the game, in the first year I played a Mage assassin and I would camp our enemies trees or a ruin when our enemies were fighting a bane (bane is the name for the Siege warfare where one side is trying to destroy/capture the other sides town). Now why did I do this? Because the week before they camped our town and ping ponged some of my guildies. What resulted from my action? That guild Baned my guilds town that took 3 weeks of farming to build and farming in SB was on the order of watching paint dry. So the consequence was much greater than losing a weapon or a piece of armor it was possibly a city costing millions in gold and weeks worth of playing time.

 

In the case of CN you pk their leveling groups enough times they bane your town and bring 300 to your 50. Hell place your town 2 steps closer than one of their towns to a much sought after discipline rune and win more fights for it than you lost to them and they would bane you off the map.

Edited by gauis

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well, I offered another solution in one thread around here, maybe even this one....which was that instanced cities could provide a means in which to limit a hardcoded amount of numbers to a siege. players who want in from the side with too many could be in a queue waiting for the other side to get more on. It's not perfect and everyone hates the idea of instanced cities, so oh well.

 

Archeage have instanced siege , where a capped numbers of players can join but instanced siege is not good for the game and remove part of the fun because there will not be the way to bane crash or going there solo only for steal items from players. One of the funny things to do in SB was going to a bane with a thief (when your guild / nation was not involved in it) only for steal the Resourced rolled weapons (best weapons in game) that the players were unequipping when they were going to start to destroy the banestone or the tree of life (to do a decent damage as players to siege structure (if you were not a specific character made just for burn down structures and mines) you had to use siege weapons so you had to unequip your usuall weapon to equip a personal siege weapon that was right for your class making possible for a thief to peek your inventory and pick the weapons you just unequipped stealing it from you.

Edited by cappaspada

Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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This has been a problem in every single mmo in existence, and it seems the side with the most typically wins. As most know, in real wars this was not always the case. Is there something that will be done to limit the amount in which your opponent can outnumber and outgun you? I really hope there is something in place for this and if there is not, maybe its something we as a community could brainstorm to combat against. For example in Shadowbane, I always thought a  special city spire could have been activated( during banes of course,) if the defending armies numbers were heavily out-gunned by the attacking armies in which it would lessen the damage generated by the attacking army. 

 

Reading about that special city spire, how could you stop defensor to exploit this system? They could just use a different guild tag to add numbers to the "attacking force making the debuff working while actively acting as defensive...or how to count the number of the supposed attacking force when a different guild was banecrashing?

Edited by cappaspada

Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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Mmmm, I thought as much.

See that's the problem, when you have a situation that allows zergs but where they basically have nothing to lose but a lot to gain, it becomes uneven in their favor.

Allowing them to send wave after wave endlessly, as a never ending army.  And when it basically becomes impossible to hold land in the long term as the defender without also having a massive zerg, it becomes a fruitless endeavor.

 

Which is why I made the suggestion that I did, where if your going to attack somebody and try to take over their land with a massive zerg, it had better cost you a bloody arm and a leg to do so, and put what you already have at risk.  You shouldn't be able to win automatically just by have more people.

 

 

Now EVE Online did have one more system I didn't mention, which is their Sovereignty system.  In essence as long as you pay your rent on the lang/space you own, no one can take it from you, period.  Admittedly it's contrived and artificial, so I would propose something a little more organic.

 

Say you have a Nation, and it's split up into several Territories, all of which is clearly outlined.

Each Territory or several of which can be owned and managed by players, or guilds.  Each Territory is large and could probably be divided up into plots of land for individual players to build on, but that's secondary.

 

Each Territory has a Security level, which is the NPC's happiness with whoever is in charge.  You've got Secure, Unrest, and Anarchy.

When Secure, the people are happy, and they will not accept anyone else.  Thus, this land cannot be taken by force, period.

During Unrest, the people are talking about rebellion, an outside army can't take over by force, but if they can sway the people politically they can.

But during Anarchy, it's open rebellion and the land is up for grabs, even to an outside army.

 

So why NPC's?  Because if you want to automate ANYTHING, build a building, mine a mine, craft gear for your guild, etc, they need to be alive and happy.

So it's in a guilds best interest to please and protect the NPC's on their land.  Not just protect them from outside forces, but from the local monsters as well.

Which is where other guilds can come in.  They may not be able to take over via force, but they can sow the seeds of discord.

 

Killing villagers, razing villages to the ground, destroying their fields, getting the monsters to run rampant.  Which in turn causes them to become unhappy at the people in charge for not protecting them, and not do their job as a result.  And it spirals down from there.  When it's Anarchy, the land in essence doesn't belong to anybody, but anybody the NPC's hate are barred from taking over for a time.

However keep in mind if your an outside force, if your the ones directly attacking the villagers and making their life hell, they will hate you also.

 

 

Basically in order to take any land, the NPC people must A: want a new leader.  B: not hate you.

 

As a result of a system like this, zergs cannot win via force alone. And the more land they have, the more they have to manage, the easier it is for smaller groups to usurp power.  And so the critical weakness of a zerg, ironically is their size.

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Mmmm, I thought as much.

See that's the problem, when you have a situation that allows zergs but where they basically have nothing to lose but a lot to gain, it becomes uneven in their favor.

Allowing them to send wave after wave endlessly, as a never ending army.  And when it basically becomes impossible to hold land in the long term as the defender without also having a massive zerg, it becomes a fruitless endeavor.

 

Which is why I made the suggestion that I did, where if your going to attack somebody and try to take over their land with a massive zerg, it had better cost you a bloody arm and a leg to do so, and put what you already have at risk.  You shouldn't be able to win automatically just by have more people.

 

 

Now EVE Online did have one more system I didn't mention, which is their Sovereignty system.  In essence as long as you pay your rent on the lang/space you own, no one can take it from you, period.  Admittedly it's contrived and artificial, so I would propose something a little more organic.

 

Say you have a Nation, and it's split up into several Territories, all of which is clearly outlined.

Each Territory or several of which can be owned and managed by players, or guilds.  Each Territory is large and could probably be divided up into plots of land for individual players to build on, but that's secondary.

 

Each Territory has a Security level, which is the NPC's happiness with whoever is in charge.  You've got Secure, Unrest, and Anarchy.

When Secure, the people are happy, and they will not accept anyone else.  Thus, this land cannot be taken by force, period.

During Unrest, the people are talking about rebellion, an outside army can't take over by force, but if they can sway the people politically they can.

But during Anarchy, it's open rebellion and the land is up for grabs, even to an outside army.

 

So why NPC's?  Because if you want to automate ANYTHING, build a building, mine a mine, craft gear for your guild, etc, they need to be alive and happy.

So it's in a guilds best interest to please and protect the NPC's on their land.  Not just protect them from outside forces, but from the local monsters as well.

Which is where other guilds can come in.  They may not be able to take over via force, but they can sow the seeds of discord.

 

Killing villagers, razing villages to the ground, destroying their fields, getting the monsters to run rampant.  Which in turn causes them to become unhappy at the people in charge for not protecting them, and not do their job as a result.  And it spirals down from there.  When it's Anarchy, the land in essence doesn't belong to anybody, but anybody the NPC's hate are barred from taking over for a time.

However keep in mind if your an outside force, if your the ones directly attacking the villagers and making their life hell, they will hate you also.

 

 

Basically in order to take any land, the NPC people must A: want a new leader.  B: not hate you.

 

As a result of a system like this, zergs cannot win via force alone. And the more land they have, the more they have to manage, the easier it is for smaller groups to usurp power.  And so the critical weakness of a zerg, ironically is their size.

 

The problem wasn't defending the town against the 300 man Zerg with 50, the nation I belonged to did that and we never lost a town to them...until we got tired of doing it over and over while at the same time basically having no shot of taking one of their towns because there was a defenders advantage in SB and left. Defender dies he just respawns in the town if he died off the city grid or just recalled back to the town if on. The attacker on the other hand had to either run back from his nations closest town or get a summons back, which was player used skill that some professions had but there was a timer on them.. You can see how it goes, the defenders can get back faster than the attacker after death. Now when the numbers were close a more skilled attacker could and did win because they didn't have that many die and were able to keep the pressure on, couple the defenders advantage to a more skilled defender and it was easy to hold off larger numbers up to a certain point, if the balance in forces was too great no matter how much skill you have you are going to get run over. That is why I and others want some type of hard coded device that will even it out so that when it comes to the big consequences of losing something that takes a long time to get, it should be to skill not out of proportion numbers. This was something the SB players that stuck around after the flood of players leaving in 2004 came to, bigger guilds typically didn't bane real small guilds off the map. Camp their town maybe, kill them for mines sure but not drive them from the game, Hell it wasn't unheard of for a PK guild to come help a small Carebear guild at a Defensive bane if they were severely outmatched. A guild I later played with (CS) did that for my original guild when all we could field was 6 players to defend a town that took months to build against 2 other guilds that outnumbered us. That was the system that evolved naturally when it was just NA guilds on NA servers, when CN came that all went out the window and CN never learned the lesson the NA guilds did in 2003/4.

Edited by gauis

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Mmmm, I thought as much.

See that's the problem, when you have a situation that allows zergs but where they basically have nothing to lose but a lot to gain, it becomes uneven in their favor.

Allowing them to send wave after wave endlessly, as a never ending army.  And when it basically becomes impossible to hold land in the long term as the defender without also having a massive zerg, it becomes a fruitless endeavor.

 

Which is why I made the suggestion that I did, where if your going to attack somebody and try to take over their land with a massive zerg, it had better cost you a bloody arm and a leg to do so, and put what you already have at risk.  You shouldn't be able to win automatically just by have more people.

 

 

Now EVE Online did have one more system I didn't mention, which is their Sovereignty system.  In essence as long as you pay your rent on the lang/space you own, no one can take it from you, period.  Admittedly it's contrived and artificial, so I would propose something a little more organic.

 

Say you have a Nation, and it's split up into several Territories, all of which is clearly outlined.

Each Territory or several of which can be owned and managed by players, or guilds.  Each Territory is large and could probably be divided up into plots of land for individual players to build on, but that's secondary.

 

Each Territory has a Security level, which is the NPC's happiness with whoever is in charge.  You've got Secure, Unrest, and Anarchy.

When Secure, the people are happy, and they will not accept anyone else.  Thus, this land cannot be taken by force, period.

During Unrest, the people are talking about rebellion, an outside army can't take over by force, but if they can sway the people politically they can.

But during Anarchy, it's open rebellion and the land is up for grabs, even to an outside army.

 

So why NPC's?  Because if you want to automate ANYTHING, build a building, mine a mine, craft gear for your guild, etc, they need to be alive and happy.

So it's in a guilds best interest to please and protect the NPC's on their land.  Not just protect them from outside forces, but from the local monsters as well.

Which is where other guilds can come in.  They may not be able to take over via force, but they can sow the seeds of discord.

 

Killing villagers, razing villages to the ground, destroying their fields, getting the monsters to run rampant.  Which in turn causes them to become unhappy at the people in charge for not protecting them, and not do their job as a result.  And it spirals down from there.  When it's Anarchy, the land in essence doesn't belong to anybody, but anybody the NPC's hate are barred from taking over for a time.

However keep in mind if your an outside force, if your the ones directly attacking the villagers and making their life hell, they will hate you also.

 

 

Basically in order to take any land, the NPC people must A: want a new leader.  B: not hate you.

 

As a result of a system like this, zergs cannot win via force alone. And the more land they have, the more they have to manage, the easier it is for smaller groups to usurp power.  And so the critical weakness of a zerg, ironically is their size.

 

 

That can be a good idea but how you can stop a guild with huge numbers of players to rise havok everywhere at the same time killing npc in every part of the map making all the enemy zone going to Anarchy?

 

About the system we had in Shadowbane one of the huge advantage that had the defensive force was the capability to port back to the city under siege after a death. Offensive force had the need to do again the whole travel that in Shadowbane most of the time was not fast (no mounts) or been summoned by someone that were outside the no summoning area that usually was on during banes by the no summon spire. Usually those character placed for summoning pourpose were hunted by defenders. Maybe an idea can be to add an unremovable debuff after a death that add a speed penalty making the travel back slower and increase the area of effect of that no summon spire increasing the difficoulty for offensive force to get back to the fight after a death making the use of wave of players as cannon fodder not that easy


Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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Reading about that special city spire, how could you stop defensor to exploit this system? They could just use a different guild tag to add numbers to the "attacking force making the debuff working while actively acting as defensive...or how to count the number of the supposed attacking force when a different guild was banecrashing?

Like i stated, we could all brain storm and figure this out and btw I was never attacking any pac rim players specifically, I was specifically attacking those players that enjoy zerging the piss out of other players to get their rocks off. If thats this game, sorry I probably won't play very long as I've done that now with shadowbane going on 10 years and I think that's enough time to learn from history and realize that playing a game that allows you to get zerged with no means of countering it, is just simply not that fun. I've already wasted enough good years of my life doing that. If this isn't taken seriously by the developers of this game, i promise this game will fail fast if not faster than Shadowbane failed because of this exact reasoning. Zergs need to be controlled by other means than players.  


 

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... Hell it wasn't unheard of for a PK guild to come help a small Carebear guild at a Defensive bane if they were severely outmatched. A guild I later played with (CS) did that for my original guild when all we could field was 6 players to defend a town that took months to build against 2 other guilds that outnumbered us. That was the system that evolved naturally when it was just NA guilds on NA servers, when CN came that all went out the window and CN never learned the lesson the NA guilds did in 2003/4.

 

I'm really sad that in my first guild on Wrath (i don't remember the name of that guild but was a NA / EU guild and after those bane loss the guild changed name in Pandora that later become one of the best guild of Wrath) we had a defensive bane agaisnt Widowmakers and their allies on our only city (we lost the other one 2 days before against the same enemy because some traitor IC opened doors to the enemy and switched off spires during the bane) and we were in 6 online agaisnt 40 (many ppl quitted the game after what happend in that other bane because those traitor) and no one went in our help

So maybe the system that worked for you didnt worked for us for unknow reason. PS at that time there weren't asian forces on Wrath .

Edited by cappaspada

Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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Like i stated, we could all brain storm and figure this out and btw I was never attacking any pac rim players specifically, I was specifically attacking those players that enjoy zerging the piss out of other players to get their rocks off. If thats this game, sorry I probably won't play very long as I've done that now with shadowbane going on 10 years and I think that's enough time to learn from history and realize that playing a game that allows you to get zerged with no means of countering it, is just simply not that fun. I've already wasted enough good years of my life doing that. If this isn't taken seriously by the developers of this game, i promise this game will fail fast if not faster than Shadowbane failed because of this exact reasoning. Zergs need to be controlled by other means than players.  

 

I never said that you were attacking someone and btw i had a lot of hate and insults in Shadowbane (on the forum and in game) for years so i'm not that sensible to personal attack when they happen to me

Do you remember that zerg was not only made by asian players? what are the way to controll the zerg if not using players skills? If you mean game mechanic, players skills or something like that we can try to find one but if you mean that the way to control zerg is blocking asian players you are very wrong and i'm not following you on this route and i will try with all of my force to stop this game going to that route

Do you know that in every pvp game zerg is used as tactic no matter which nationality have the playerbase (or maybe i was just unlucky to find zerg in every game i played after Shadowbane starting from AOC where we had russian guild zerging everyone, Warhammer Online, Aion , GW2 ; Teso , Archeage (for the open pvp part of the game)

I'm usually against zerg in game ( the only exception is Shadowbane because of Arirang and not because i can't play without using this tactic but we hadn't alternative at least since when i started playing , was zerg or be zerged) but i can't see a way to stop ppl to use this tactic in a Sandbox.

Edited by cappaspada

Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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Well, for one going off of my original idea of having an economy much like EVE where players build everything and it takes a good long amount of time, when you die you lose everything on you.  And to a degree, your power to expense ration is exponential, meaning that the next tier of equipment will see a modest increase in overall power, but a massive increase in time and cost.

 

So in turn war becomes really quite expensive to just to throw people at a problem.  You have to be smart.

 

Combine this with defenders being able to build walls, towers, siege equipment, etc, gives them a huge defenders advantage.

Meaning that you can build walls around your villages, making them more difficult for raiding bands to do any significant amount of damage.

Like how without siege, it's awfully difficult to destroy a stone wall.  Then you could have things like hiring NPC guard, and equipping/training them well.

Allowing the defenders to become more and more entrenched over time.  Which makes removing them from power all the more difficult.

And changing a territories Security level should not be easy or quick, depending on how long the people who own it have had it, and how well they have done, it could take days or weeks to force change.

 

 

So ideally you want a system where defenders who have actively built and protected their lands are hard to dislodge, attackers have to spend a lot of time and resources in a prolonged campaign if they want to take that land as a result, and in doing so a large guild/zerg's own land requires a lot of management and becomes a large target.

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I'm really sad that in my first guild on Wrath (i don't remember the name of that guild but was a NA / EU guild and after those bane loss the guild changed name in Pandora that later become one of the best guild of Wrath) we had a defensive bane agaisnt Widowmakers and their allies on our only city (we lost the other one 2 days before against the same enemy because some traitor IC opened doors to the enemy and switched off spires during the bane) and we were in 6 online agaisnt 40 (many ppl quitted the game after what happend in that other bane because those traitor) and no one went in our help

So maybe the system that worked for you didnt worked for us for unknow reason. PS at that time there weren't asian forces on Wrath .

It happened on Entropy which came before Wrath and before the coming of CN on that sever. Also there was Arirang and CN on Wrath from the moment it opened, I used to camp their cities (Mostly Arirang, loved going to their trainer town on ice and camping it with my Cent Prelate) and my guild Lemerus Bellicus (LB) owned Wrath Trainers. By the time LB left Wrath I personally owned Wrath Trainers so I know who was there and who wasn't. The reason people don't remember CN from early Wrath is because they split forces and got ambitious and tried to take over two servers at once, they tried Mouring and got kicked off. When that happened they all came to Wrath. Arirang was there in full force from Day One but over all they were not half the problem CN was, You camped their town and they just camped yours, you took a mine from them they just tried to get it back, Runes they had no problems fighting over but they didn't bane you off the map over it, which CN did do to people.

Edited by gauis

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Well, for one going off of my original idea of having an economy much like EVE where players build everything and it takes a good long amount of time, when you die you lose everything on you.  And to a degree, your power to expense ration is exponential, meaning that the next tier of equipment will see a modest increase in overall power, but a massive increase in time and cost.

 

So in turn war becomes really quite expensive to just to throw people at a problem.  You have to be smart.

 

Combine this with defenders being able to build walls, towers, siege equipment, etc, gives them a huge defenders advantage.

Meaning that you can build walls around your villages, making them more difficult for raiding bands to do any significant amount of damage.

Like how without siege, it's awfully difficult to destroy a stone wall.  Then you could have things like hiring NPC guard, and equipping/training them well.

Allowing the defenders to become more and more entrenched over time.  Which makes removing them from power all the more difficult.

And changing a territories Security level should not be easy or quick, depending on how long the people who own it have had it, and how well they have done, it could take days or weeks to force change.

 

 

So ideally you want a system where defenders who have actively built and protected their lands are hard to dislodge, attackers have to spend a lot of time and resources in a prolonged campaign if they want to take that land as a result, and in doing so a large guild/zerg's own land requires a lot of management and becomes a large target.

 

Maybe it is possible to use something like that but i think that it is really pointless try to think to any solution before we know something about the game. Atm we know nothing so it is just pointless imo. It is enough that the developers know that a large part of the community is concerned about zerg but i think they already were aware of this ...


Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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Well, no it's not pointless.

Sure we might be pissing into the wind, but airing out concerns and thinking of potential ways to correct them could have value since the game is undoubtedly in early stages of development.  Meaning the earlier you make a change the cheaper it is from a development stand point.

 

So if any of this happens to reflect anything in the game, then it's something to take into consideration.

Knowing what people want or don't want is valuable.

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It happened on Entropy which came before Wrath and before the coming of CN on that sever. Also there was Arirang and CN on Wrath from the moment it opened, I used to camp their cities (Mostly Arirang, loved going to their trainer town on ice and camping it with my Cent Prelate) and my guild Lemerus Bellicus (LB) owned Wrath Trainers. By the time LB left Wrath I personally owned Wrath Trainers so I know who was there and who wasn't. The reason people don't remember CN from early Wrath is because they split forces and got ambitious and tried to take over two servers at once, they tried Mouring and got kicked off. When that happened they all came to Wrath. Arirang was there in full force from Day One but over all they were not half the problem CN was, You camped their town and they just camped yours, you took a mine from them they just tried to get it back, Runes they had no problems fighting over but they didn't bane you off the map over it, which CN did do to people.

 

I don't think so. When i moved from Braialla to Wrath (late 2006) i was alone and unguilded (all the other Arirang's players were still on Braialla but i was tired of that dead server so moved to Wrath because another italian's players that had 1 toon on Brialla was mainly playing on Wrath and he asked me to get there and the only Asian guild on there was Shangrlia (that was the target of your zerg months later when Arirang went to Wrath) that was a peacefull guild of farmers frendly to everyone

When i went there i joined 2 or 3 different guild (the first was called Thief King or something like that and the other one was called King of Insanity before joining that guild that disbanded after those 2 banes that later become Pandora (i was IC there for months till Arirang showed up on Wrath). If Arirang was already on Wrath i never had to join another guild and that is a fact and i remember very well that time.

Btw Chinese guild tried a push on Mourning a lot after when Arirang went to Wrath and before that they tried also on Vindication and that happened only after we we had more than half of the map of that server. Maybe you are speaking about years before 2006?

When Arirang went to Wrath in the 2007 we had 2 cities in the desert bought from some other guilds and there weren't any Arirang's tag on the map till those 2 cities were bought by Arirang IC . At that moment i was still IC in Pandora and we were subbed to Shangrlia that was already under bane by the server zerg that started a witch hunt lead by Omnius against guild that were harboring cn (only in his mind). At that time other than the few players of Shangrlia that all the server know we had no asian players in our nation but Omnius used that Witch hunt to get the city.

Edited by cappaspada

Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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I don't think so. When i moved from Braialla to Wrath (late 2006) i was alone and unguilded (all the other Arirang's players were still on Braialla) and the only Asian guild on there was Shangrlia (that was the target of your zerg months later when Arirang went to Wrath) that was a peacefull guild of farmers frendly to everyone

When i went there i joined 2 or 3 different guild (one was called King of Insanity before joining that guild that disbanded after those 2 banes that later become Pandora (i was IC there for months till Arirang showed up on Wrath). If Arirang was already on Wrath i never had to join another guild and that is a fact and i remember very well that time.

Btw Chinese guild tried a push on Mourning a lot after when Arirang went to Wrath and before that they tried also on Vindication and that happened only after we we had more than half of the map of that server.

Wrath opened right after Entropy closed and my guild went there and yes there was Arirang and CN there, I killed them, I camped their towns and I watched them train in my Trainer town before they got theirs fully done. CN never really got that far in Vindication because they didn't like the enforced loreplay rulest, the dominant powers there was Crime Syndicate and the Irekei Lore guild VA with Dissent following that. Keep in mind I played SB from the first year it opened all the way through Vindication, then on and off until it shout down in 2009. I saw the first great exodus of players from the original servers due to technical problems, serious griefing that was never seen again after early 2004 and the early bane ruleset. They brought out the brand new mapset Vorringa for the brand new server Entropy and slated most of the original servers for closure and gave us a choice: migration to Mourning or start over on Entroy. My guild and nation split over it, most transfered to Mourning when they allowed it while the rest of us rolled toon on Entropy and started work until Chaos closed. Months later they decided to let transfer any remaining un transfered characters to Entropy. At that time Entropy was an NA only server and that balance I spoke of went into effect. There was no Wrath or Brailla or any other new servers at that time so when they closed the EU servers we got flooded with CN and problems started. When the TOO expansion beta came out it was well known Entropy was dying and slated for closure and a new server was being planned: Wrath. Again some of the Entropy player base went ot morning but my new Guild went to Wrath and this was 2005 not 2006, so you came a year into the life of the Wrath server, I was there from day one if you came in 2006.

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This has been a problem in every single mmo in existence, and it seems the side with the most typically wins. As most know, in real wars this was not always the case. Is there something that will be done to limit the amount in which your opponent can outnumber and outgun you? I really hope there is something in place for this and if there is not, maybe its something we as a community could brainstorm to combat against. For example in Shadowbane, I always thought a  special city spire could have been activated( during banes of course,) if the defending armies numbers were heavily out-gunned by the attacking armies in which it would lessen the damage generated by the attacking army. 

I have an easy Fix Solution to Zerg. It's a term That's hardly ever seen in MMO's.. "Friendly Fire"

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I have an easy Fix Solution to Zerg. It's a term That's hardly ever seen in MMO's.. "Friendly Fire"

 

As i already wrote before we had Friendly Fire in Shadowbane. Everyone outside your group (10 was the max size of the group) could become a target of your offensive skills and during banes there were lots of frinds killed by aoes. That was not a countermeasure to zerg


Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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