Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Feedback on the current state of the game


Recommended Posts

On 10/10/2020 at 3:00 PM, Durenthal said:

Lack of population has been an ongoing problem for Crowfall, and the designers need to take some time to work out why that is and what they can do to fix it.

There are tens of thousands of people with access to the beta right now.  Yet under 1% of them are playing at peak times.  I've heard all the excuses about how people who've paid for early access don't actually want to test an unfinished game, how an upcoming wipe is causing people to not want to play, etc.   Wait, let's unpack that last one a bit.  People don't want to participate because there's a chance their work will be wiped away.   Crowfall progression feels like work.  Every aspect of it.

What it comes down to, is that while Crowfall occasionally feels rewarding, it rarely feels like fun.   And that's the core problem you have, ACE.  Those of us who persist in the test do so because those rare elements of fun make us want to seek out more of it, or because we feel an obligation to our guild.  The vast majority of your testers have decided that there's not nearly enough fun to justify all the work that comprises the rest of the game.   If the game had a lot more fun, a wipe would be meaningless because we'd be enjoying the gameplay, and doing more of it later would also be enjoyable.

Let's examine some of the elements of Crowfall.

  • The New Player Experience is a necessary evil.  New players need to learn the mechanics and concepts and weird stuff that makes Crowfall unique.  And going through it once is educational and rewarding (free mount, relatively fast pace of advancement for white vessels, at least).  But after the first time on each class (let's be generous and say that it teaches us how to play our class and is therefore worthwhile the first time you play a class), it's just work.  And if you have a crafted vessel, it's more work to get to max level.  The better the vessel, the more experience you have with the game, the more work it is to level the vessel.  Why is that?  We should pay for our stronger vessel with a longer leveling curve?  That suggests that even the devs see the leveling process as work, a price to be paid to reach the real game.
  • Harvesting for mats.  Resource nodes have 1000 health.  Node dmg is capped at 100 per swing unless you're using energetic harvesting.  So let's assume an average of 10 swings of a tool to destroy a node (longer in the early game, shorter for trained harvesters with good gear and energetic harvesting later on).  Each node pops out a couple of useful doobers, some dust, and a fair number of less useful doobers.  Solo harvesters spend a lot of time hitting resource nodes.  They deplete their stam, they use a glowing tool that can be seen a long ways off, they make a lot of noise.  All this so they can attract gankers for a bout of massively unbalanced PvP (the ganker chooses the start of the fight, when the harvester is low on stam usually, the ganker is in pvp gear as opposed to harvesting gear, the ganker carries no loot while the harvester is a loot pinata, and when the ganker wins, it recalls home immediately to offload its loot.  No risk vs reward here).  And the rewards of solo harvesting are dwarfed by the drops from forts and pig caravans.   So solo harvesting is a lot of work (there's that word again) for little reward and no fun.  Group harvesting (motherlodes, with harvesters and guards, or even groups of harvesters working in close proximity (although there are no places at all in recent maps where this is viable for most types of harvesting)) is marginally more rewarding, and less dangerous, but it's still work rather than fun.  Maybe here we have to accept rewarding rather than fun?
  • Forts.  A fort produces a large amount of free resources each hour to the faction/alliance/guild that owns it.  Forts are rewarding.  Capturing a fort involves bringing a large number of people to capture a flag in the last few minutes of an hour-long siege window.  Because the only thing that matters is who owns the flag when the siege window ends.  5 minutes of blob vs blob combat dictates who gets the reward for the next 24 hours or so.  And the forts only have their siege window in prime time for their local time zone.  Same as keeps.  This promotes appointment gameplay.  Login at the start of prime time, hope your blob is bigger than the enemy blob (because large group combat in crowfall is a numbers game for the most part), logout after the siege window ends.  No real reason to play outside the siege window once you've got a leveled and geared character.   I would like to see Forts replenish their loot at random intervals throughout the day (based on population on, if you prefer), with less loot per pop, and a 5 minute warning before the loot spawns.  Fort fights should be good fun for 5 man groups.
  • Caravans.  I think ACE did pretty well with these.  Pigs spawn at a decent rate, move at a decent rate, and can lead to small group combat, which is what Crowfall does best, and where all the fun is to be had.  They are probably too rewarding in comparison with harvesting though - a solo pig runner will come up with way more uncommon and rare resources in a day than a solo harvester.
  • Keep sieges.  These should be the epic centerpieces of Crowfall throne wars.  Instead they're a blob vs blob mess.  Blob vs blob combat isn't fun with current game mechanics.  There's no way for individual skill to count for much.  Tactics don't do a lot either - it boils down to "isolate someone on the other side and burn them down.  Repeat over and over.  Move in the densest blob you can so the enemy can't isolate your guys and burn them down."  Shot callers may get some reward out of blob vs blob fights, but for Joe Normal, the only reward is the satisfaction of either defending your stuff or destroying the other side's stuff.   There's no fun in the moment, just the reward at the end.  Honestly, I have no idea how you fix this with current gameplay mechanics.  It's going to take some significant changes.
  • Wartribes and Thralls.  This is.. ok, I guess.  Doing it solo is asking to be ganked.  Doing it in small groups can lead to some small group fun (and occasionally being run over by a roaming blob).
  • Throne War mechanics.  There really are none beyond sieges.  There's no way to claim and hold land, and no reward for doing so even if you could.  There needs to be fun stuff small groups can do at any time that will help their team compete, and that needs to be the bulk of the gameplay.

In the end, solo play in Crowfall is neither fun nor rewarding (unless you're a solo stealther ganking solo harvesters, I suppose).   Small group combat is fun, and possibly rewarding, but really hard to find in Crowfall as things stand, because everything worth fighting over is worth bringing 50 people to do the fighting, and is conveniently scheduled so guilds can do so.  Large group fighting is not fun at all, but rewarding if your blob wins (note that I didn't say if you win.  If your blob wins).

ACE, please take a look at your systems, scheduling, and mechanics, and rejig things with an eye to making gameplay fun.  Small group combat is where Crowfall shines, so try to focus on that in the short term, while also looking for ways to make large group combat fun, and to make solo play viable and fun.

All this.

You've succeeded in making an MMO that people only want to play like it's an instanced battleground, and then the instanced battleground is closed most of the time.

I mean congratulations of the stuff that goes on during timers and the POI stuff, but the rest of the game feels either too grindy or pointless depending on which activity you're interacting with because of how heavily you've leaned on the POI systems and how they interact with everything else.

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 109
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Lack of population has been an ongoing problem for Crowfall, and the designers need to take some time to work out why that is and what they can do to fix it. There are tens of thousands of people

So yea I normally stay away from the forums due to trolls and negativity regardless, I've been summoned from my crafting corner of solitude. I am probably going to be the only person to disagree with

The main problem with the game now is the low level of content that drives PvP. PvP should be at the center of everything in this game whether it is sieges, farming, crafting or gathering. Here are so

3 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

All this.

You've succeeded in making an MMO that people only want to play like it's an instanced battleground, and then the instanced battleground is closed most of the time.

I mean congratulations of the stuff that goes on during timers and the POI stuff, but the rest of the game feels either too grindy or pointless depending on which activity you're interacting with because of how heavily you've leaned on the POI systems and how they interact with everything else.

Yes, this was exactly how it feels to me. I feel like I am playing an instanced PvP battleground arena from Rift, just much larger in scale, both size and time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't feel like I'm PLAYING a game more than a few minutes a day. I spend several hours per day WORKING at improving my progression by gathering and crafting.

I'm willing to do this to learn as much as I can to be ready to get a quick start at launch but I do wish there was more fun time,

macdeath_sig.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

I think one of the main problems with the game is that if you enjoy the time outside of siege there is very little in the world to do. The sprawling world where people are out farming and mining just isn’t there. Part of that is due to the sheer ridiculous amount of resources that you can get out of forts safely and consistently. It pretty much creates a loop in which people are logging on to take fort chests on cooldown logging on for their sieges then leaving. During the Aliepo Dregs my guild members, who were at the time were in CC and TTK, were able to easily farm the Divine Farm cards for War Tribe camps purely because most of the other guilds just were not logging on. There was no reason to. And while this lead to a CC and Alliance victory the fact that there was almost zero competition or resistance is worrisome. At the moment there just isn’t reason for people to log on outside of the siege windows. A couple suggestions to fix this are as follows:

  • Please, please, please make it so that fort guards do not spawn until during the siege hours and then put forts on a random timer. Make it so that going out to get your fort chests are a risk. You need to have you guildmates backing you up as you go to grab a fort chest because you don’t know who is lurking around the corner. In a pvp game that is supposed to be about risk, 23 hours of risk-free loot is weird and out of place. This would actually lead to the fort fights and skirmishes that you actually envisioned and that currently do not exist.

 

  • Add in opportunities for DF outside of siege. Reward players that are actually out doing things in the world. The fact that players in all sized guilds can stay competitive playing very few hours a day is a joke. Make is so that logging on is a way to victory and that doing daily tasks (i.e Kill 100 Wartribe mobs as a guild) is a way for you to move ahead of those choosing not to play the game or make a time commitment to the game. Something like this would also create hotspots where PVP is happening for both small and bigger groups.

 

  • Get rid of the nightly siege window. The current siege schedule is to put it simply exhausting and frustrating. Even in the largest of groups 4 solid hours of running fort to fort to keep and then back to forts night after night is exhausting and leads to extreme burnout. The current schedule is almost anti – fun and would do good to be spread out. Less sieges would mean that each siege that occurs becomes that much more impactful and important. If forts were tied into this system it would also mean that while they were technically held longer the loot would not necessarily be picked up on cooldown.
Edited by Communist_Puppy
Link to post
Share on other sites

       So yea I normally stay away from the forums due to trolls and negativity regardless, I've been summoned from my crafting corner of solitude. I am probably going to be the only person to disagree with you. That is probably due to me being a diehard Crowfall fanatic, that is extremely loyal to his game. I have had an absolute blast in Crowfall, for the around 2 years of playing (I wish I would of known of Crowfall 5 years+ ago like some people and I would still share the same viewpoint as I do now) Crowfall has been an absolute fun theme park for my Wife and I. We have had to most fun in this game then any other MMO that I we have ever played. (I've been around the block since UO) So I'll go ahead and continue with my 2 cents in regard to each topic you posted...

 

1. The New Player Experience.... It is a necessary evil in some ways but not all. (I said I disagree with you earlier but this ones an exception) Yes for the most part it is a drag, and if any of yall do not know about me I have 10 accounts and probably play my alt accounts more then most people play their main accounts. With that said it is a drag on me leveling each crafter and harvester and then repeating the process for each upgraded vessel. Yet the problem would be fixed completely if Ace would bring back the Artifact Tables. Those Tables of Pre-Alpha were a Godsend, and bringing those back would completely fix the issue that veterans suffer from the NPE. Otherwise yes, New Players really need this experience. I've seen more new players give up Crowfall due to not having a NPE at all then most any other reasons. They need as much help as possible.

 

2. Harvesting. While I do not agree with everything, I do agree with the lack of reward of solo harvesting. Solo harvesting does need a significant boost to yield/quality for it to be worth the effort (in comparison to pack pig running/fort materials). The exception is Grave Digging, since it is a fundamental resource and leads to a lot of PvP and "Fun". I believe out of all my solo harvesters, Grave Digging has been the most "fun" even if the yield does need a boost to mitigate risk vs reward. Now also keep in mind my viewpoints may be possibly biased since occasionally when I am solo harvesting I am also streaming. So I do encounter a higher then average PvP (Fun element) then normal solo harvesters. As for motherlodes, I usually duo motherlode with my Wife as an effective team and doing so yields great results and never feels like "work" to us. Its extremely fun and the excitement is always there, even more so when I am streaming. View point is everything, while you may see it (harvesting) as "work" my Wife and I see it as "Fun". We are also very big people pleasers, so any kind of contribution to the "War Machine" is always rewarding to us. Also to counter the very low reward for harvesters vs no risk for gankers. Solo harvesting is the only way to obtain legendary materials. (yes as above they need to boost it) That to me is a very considerable reward vs risk. It is an "earned" resource/status vs a possible solution of hand outs. The very last thing I want Crowfall to do is become a "handout" game that caters to the "casual" or "needy children". To use your own term "work" is very much paid in Crowfall. To some like me (if any) harvesting is itself the reward and fun to do. Maybe just maybe the problem lies within and should not be directed at Crowfall. Further clarification, maybe your harvesting should involve more people that are willing to implement odd thinking like "teamwork", "tactics", and "motivation to surpass others through (hard work)" instead of asking for hand outs. Moving on...

 

3. Forts  I know most people probably agree with you, I though only agree with you on the fort timer. It does need to be changed or moved around to where it is not a blob event for the last 10 minutes of the 1 hour timer. How to fix this schedule multiple timers and decrease the window in which they are available to be taken. Instead of the 1hr window which yields the last 10 minutes of "Blob PvP". Place them on 15 minute timers and make them random events throughout the day. So its a mad dash to gather as many people as you can as fast as you can, to go take it and get very rewarding materials. Not only does this increase population throughout the day, but I think it would also decrease that "blob vs blob". I do not believe loot needs to be changed. As its an event that (if changed) greatly rewards those players that are actively on or can get on with little or short notice.

 

4. Caravans. I do not believe these need to be changed at all, and yield a good amount of materials vs the risk of running them due to the events tab. Asking for a nerf in this area depreciates the risk and value of running these pigs in a heavy PvP area.

 

5. Sieges. This is a throne war game, the way they currently stand to me is perfectly fine. Yet again though the only change I see would be the timer, instead of posting all keeps at the same hour stagger them through the day. (not every hour either). What I have seen the most so far (from actively playing Crowfall Campaigns) is a bunch of turtles, which I understand because no-one likes to lose something that not only yourself but your dear guildies/allies have devoted time energy and blood to building. Easily fixed by not placing all the daily available keeps up on the same 1 hour timer at the same time, because people will choose to defend hard "work" then attack others. A side note I believe the timer on Bane trees needs to be pushed back to 30 minutes or so to further help the attackers disadvantage in keep sieges, instead of wiping Bane trees and ending the siege way too early. Large group movements (attackers) require a bit more time to organize and strategize movement in order to be more effective when assaulting a keep. Your "Zerg" or "Blob" complaint honestly is not valid. You either have/join a large guild or you join other small guilds through alliances, and form your own "Zerg" or "Blob". This is the whole purpose of the Alliance system in which Crowfall has spent a lot of time and resource into implementing. Whoever brings the most generally does not guarantee the victor. This has been shown multiple times through dare I say..."Tactics & Skill"! Yeah I said it, those that disagree I can link some War stories if you want evidence, but mostly those that disagree are more then likely on the losing side of those battles. Losing sucks but it should also motivate you into winning the next one, because every loser has an excuse but the real winners are those that take the loss and get better to become winners. I think this kind of goes along the saying of "Get Good or Get More" Oh my....I have no idea where I got that one from... Its like a voice from the heavens said that to me....hate me all you want for that. The only issue is FPS and if there are complaints from anyone about FPS that did not show up to the Unity Stress Tests, (obviously without good reason) then you lost all credibility and should keep your mouth shut about complaining about the low FPS. If you don't go stress test you are part of the problem, not the solution. So further complaints about it will be ignored. They will fix it given time, but obviously if people were to "more pew pew  and less QQ" during Unity Stress Tests, the problem would be fixed faster.

 

6. Wartribes are perfectly fine and balanced. Great rewards (Necro Additives/loot) vs risk for PvP. They have been drastically scaled back to further boost crafters and if you think they still need more of a nerf then again the problem lies within (the ability/skill of your own crafters).

 

7. Throne War Mechanics... was this even worth posting? I could say something mean like "Do you even play?" but I was just notified of this post and since these are forums are for opinions (everyone's) maybe your just outdated a bit. 6.2 has campaign rewards. (So a real reason to "Win" the campaigns instead of just bragging rights) The current campaign mechanics utilize every aspect of Crowfall PvP, PvE, Harvesting, and Crafting. Things might need to be tweaked a bit more but overall I believe they are doing a wonderful job.

 

       Well that hopefully covers everything you have posted that is no longer "fun". Call me crazy but I have "fun" every time I PvP win or lose. PvP is a fun event to me even if its 1v1, 1v5, 1v20. So this whole Crowfall isn't "fun" anymore really has me puzzled. Is this more of a complaining about PvP in a PvP game? Crowfall is a very unique PvP game, it might not appeal to everyone. Meaning sometimes things are not balanced in an open world MMO. If you want balance well I know WoW has plenty of battlegrounds where u can find plenty of queues for fights 5v5 and so on. While we are on the subject however I will post this...https://community.crowfall.com/topic/28194-player-balanced-content-for-crowfall/?tab=comments

 

 

       Lastly, I see about 3 pages of feedback and a whole lot of likes/thanks on your own feedback. I have not had enough time to review all the replies to you so if I repeat anything someone else has said I do apologize. Sadly I would only turn an ear to maybe a handful (5 or so) of the people that liked and thanked you. The rest of them I have either never seen play or they do not play enough. Not trying to say they are not important because everyone is important and all people are entitled to their suggestions and feedback (the main reason I avoid forums like this). The very last thing I want to see Crowfall turn into is a game that caters the unintelligent, or the most complaining. This usually results in ruining of something beautiful that does not give hand outs and requires more "earning" for success. Fortunately, I trust in my Crowfall dev team to use common sense and not give in to suggestions in which people that have not played enough Crowfall to have an opinion or people that easily give up and move on to other games, but post what they "think" is right. I love you all so please keep in mind I am not calling anyone or groups of people out on this. If I struck a nerve with anyone  😉 sorry? but not sorry. I do thank you for your post and feedback and highly encourage everyone to do the same, regardless of where they stand on my own view point. I believe this had to be said and hopefully finds the right eyes. Happy Crowfall everyone, safe travels and may the Crow fly with you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Communist_Puppy said:

Please, please, please make it so that fort guards do not spawn until during the siege hours and then put forts on a random timer. Make it so that going out to get your fort chests are a risk. You need to have you guildmates backing you up as you go to grab a fort chest because you don’t know who is lurking around the corner.

I like this because it supports the notion that there should be more rewarding pvp activities, but I think with this change it's still relatively risk free.  You can drop a mobile bank pretty quickly, place all the crap in there and just log in/out or simply recall.  IMO, it still will take an act of god and a whole lot of patience to pull off a fort gank (where you actually get loot) on a competent player.  Not saying this is impossible, but the level of effort you need to put into a gank like this borders on griefing.  There are much more economical ways to obtain what you need.

Edited by Atraeus
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll chime in.

My last post I was really beginning to have some fun "briefly" as it was a good change/engine/pace wise from say a year ago.  I'll state this very briefly as THESE are the issues with this game and I've not waivered from them from my first commentary YEARS ago.

1.  This game was SOLD as a Shadowbane 2.  The design team took liberties to "try" a crafting simulator which NONE of the original backers had ANY desire for.  We LOST the pvp/shadowbane creation/aspect, and were given a poor mans WoW.

2.  Work, Work, Work, Work.  Its not fun, its WORK.  I log in, level a BORING character, just to WORK again to re-birth AGAIN, and WORK WORK WORK.  I have ZERO attachment to my alter-ego character and I really can care less about leveling him AGAIN.

3.  We went from a "dark brooding" (shadowbane) atmosphere to a "cartoon, ooh its shiny!" graphic style with music to suit.  Why oh why when EVERY WESTERN MMO IS GOING DARKER was this a decision??? Even WoW is MATURING to a dark atmosphere.

4.  Standing around on "points" was NEVER fun in ANY game for pvp.  You took away the REASONS to pvp.  PVE mobs carrying gold/rares/disciplines and gave us just some kinda broken unity driven BG.  This has NO lasting appeal and you are NOT gonna get subs like this.

5.  The classes are STAT CAPPED and I have ZERO ZERO ZERO end game abilites that really "class define" why I chose what I did.  The revamp is headed in the right direction, but why wasn't this executed in the BEGINNING???

FIXES:

1.  Give us DISCIPLINES LIKE SHADOWBANE. Do NOT hold our hands and force builds on us.  Let us pick weapon runes, spike stats, make crazy builds like we did in Ultima Online, Original Guild Wars, Original WoW, and SHADOWBANE.  This is making ZERO sense to deviate from this in an "sandbox" style game.

2.  You really really NEED to make 3 different styles of zones to have a sense of "faction pride".  Make it forest, wasteland, desert, winter I don't care but the map is just soooooooo lifeless and boring.

3.  Get off the crafting!!! I've stated this now for years.  This was NOT what we signed up for.

4.  Bring back OPEN timers on Keeps for War and treat it like DAOC (dark age of camelot) did with guilds adding resources/points to ranking them up.  Let late night crews go siege and raid.  Big deal if they are taken, the zerg daytime guilds will just take them back but at least THERE IS SOMETHING TO DO AND GAIN!!!

5.  Give us a PvP dungeon, pve farming zone, ANYTHING that factions can fight over which opens it up like DAOC did so theres a REASON to flip keeps.  Standing around on points, getting some lame stat buff, or having access to tables...SO WHAT.

I really want this game to make a dent/splash in the mmo market.  I promise as I have so many fond memories of Shadowbane.  But this is NOT it.  And the remaining 1% of people HERE can jump on here telling me "its not shadowbane it was never supposed to be!"  I'm not even gonna take a screenshot of the ORIGINAL Crowfall Stat/character creation pictures in kickstarter. IT WAS A BLATANT COPY.

My gut tells me this is gonna end in a very bad way if DRASTIC CHANGES ARE NOT MADE TO BRING BACK THE ORIGINAL OLD-TIMERS/FUNDERS.

I really wish this game/company well.  And i'll provide my feedback every few months...but this game is not fun, and I really am not trying to mean that in a rude manner.  If you do NOT develop some form of 'character attachment', why are we gonna stay here when better PvP with 10x better graphics is right around every corner in ANY fps/bg game out there now.

I still believe in the team, but my faith has waivered.

Best of luck,

Wrain

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have faith in ace more each day. Seems most of y'all don't. But it's good to complain here because it might make it into the next patch. And all you small guilds out there it's possible to win. You just gotta get strategic and put in the work required.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wrain said:

I'll chime in.

My last post I was really beginning to have some fun "briefly" as it was a good change/engine/pace wise from say a year ago.  I'll state this very briefly as THESE are the issues with this game and I've not waivered from them from my first commentary YEARS ago.

1.  This game was SOLD as a Shadowbane 2.  The design team took liberties to "try" a crafting simulator which NONE of the original backers had ANY desire for.  We LOST the pvp/shadowbane creation/aspect, and were given a poor mans WoW.

2.  Work, Work, Work, Work.  Its not fun, its WORK.  I log in, level a BORING character, just to WORK again to re-birth AGAIN, and WORK WORK WORK.  I have ZERO attachment to my alter-ego character and I really can care less about leveling him AGAIN.

3.  We went from a "dark brooding" (shadowbane) atmosphere to a "cartoon, ooh its shiny!" graphic style with music to suit.  Why oh why when EVERY WESTERN MMO IS GOING DARKER was this a decision??? Even WoW is MATURING to a dark atmosphere.

4.  Standing around on "points" was NEVER fun in ANY game for pvp.  You took away the REASONS to pvp.  PVE mobs carrying gold/rares/disciplines and gave us just some kinda broken unity driven BG.  This has NO lasting appeal and you are NOT gonna get subs like this.

5.  The classes are STAT CAPPED and I have ZERO ZERO ZERO end game abilites that really "class define" why I chose what I did.  The revamp is headed in the right direction, but why wasn't this executed in the BEGINNING???

FIXES:

1.  Give us DISCIPLINES LIKE SHADOWBANE. Do NOT hold our hands and force builds on us.  Let us pick weapon runes, spike stats, make crazy builds like we did in Ultima Online, Original Guild Wars, Original WoW, and SHADOWBANE.  This is making ZERO sense to deviate from this in an "sandbox" style game.

2.  You really really NEED to make 3 different styles of zones to have a sense of "faction pride".  Make it forest, wasteland, desert, winter I don't care but the map is just soooooooo lifeless and boring.

3.  Get off the crafting!!! I've stated this now for years.  This was NOT what we signed up for.

4.  Bring back OPEN timers on Keeps for War and treat it like DAOC (dark age of camelot) did with guilds adding resources/points to ranking them up.  Let late night crews go siege and raid.  Big deal if they are taken, the zerg daytime guilds will just take them back but at least THERE IS SOMETHING TO DO AND GAIN!!!

5.  Give us a PvP dungeon, pve farming zone, ANYTHING that factions can fight over which opens it up like DAOC did so theres a REASON to flip keeps.  Standing around on points, getting some lame stat buff, or having access to tables...SO WHAT.

I really want this game to make a dent/splash in the mmo market.  I promise as I have so many fond memories of Shadowbane.  But this is NOT it.  And the remaining 1% of people HERE can jump on here telling me "its not shadowbane it was never supposed to be!"  I'm not even gonna take a screenshot of the ORIGINAL Crowfall Stat/character creation pictures in kickstarter. IT WAS A BLATANT COPY.

My gut tells me this is gonna end in a very bad way if DRASTIC CHANGES ARE NOT MADE TO BRING BACK THE ORIGINAL OLD-TIMERS/FUNDERS.

I really wish this game/company well.  And i'll provide my feedback every few months...but this game is not fun, and I really am not trying to mean that in a rude manner.  If you do NOT develop some form of 'character attachment', why are we gonna stay here when better PvP with 10x better graphics is right around every corner in ANY fps/bg game out there now.

I still believe in the team, but my faith has waivered.

Best of luck,

Wrain

 

AT LEAST YOU GAVE VERY VALID FIXES 😆😢👶

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been directed to this thread by a friend. I played Crowfall for a couple years then quit (together with many other friends) due to lack of interest. But I still logged on a few times after that to check out key patches. And I have to say I still have no interest in returning and have lost faith the game will ever be in a state that will hook me up again.

The two main reasons:

1) performance. It's simply unplayable in large fights, there's not much else to say. I dont know how you guys still logon to sieges that play at 10 to 20 fps.  I did that for a long time hoping it'd get better, but it never did. Maybe it'll improve a little after launch, maybe not.

2) combat and pvp. I dont think there's a nice way to say this, but it simply isnt good. It's always been who has the best build or best group comp, coupled with numbers. There's very little room for individual mechanical skill and to outplay someone that way. As Duren described large fights are just spammy blob vs blob wars of attrition. It's kinda mind numbing. It's combat designed for the lowest common denominator. I heard aurora emitter and other forms of stack busting finally made a come back, and hey great. I hope it works out. Because combat was actually a little better in the past when we had 5 man group friendly fire and couldnt just blob vs blob, druid could punish stacking severely,  myrm was super high risk high reward. It feels like they just kept making everything safer,  fool proof, and blob friendly. Even divine cards seems like it was watered down from a more edgy design of small guilds can win to a return of more numbers is always better.  I always knew CF combat was gonna be kinda mediocre mechanically (lack of budget and prior action combat experience),  but on top of being mediocre they keep making all the decisions that favor a safe low skill spammy zergy combat. 

3) I wont comment on crafting,  gathering and economy cause I have very little interest in those aspects of the game, but they have always felt grindy, unfun and work for me. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the state of siege is a bit disappointing since it becomes essentially a 15 min blob test with no contribution from smaller guilds outside the alliance.One way to improve this would be, like some suggestions already are pointing, to have a territory control mechanic that would trigger the siege. For example: 

There would be a shrine near portal that can be activated, siege timer starts. Within the hour, attackers need to control all forts and outpost in that territory to be able to damage the tree of life. This implies that, at anytime the defender (or a third party) could try to backdoor these points of control to protect their tree of life, until attacker retakes them. 

This would reduce blobbing since a bigger force of attackers would need to keep an eye on the secondary points of control to keep damaging the tree (same for defender that will need to organize secondary groups to harass the control points). It would also give an opportunity for third parties (smaller guilds, another alliance, mercenary guilds) to help one or the other side by helping that attacker protect those points or the defender retaking them (more strategy and politics)

It would remove the guild window time. Maybe there could be some kind of cooldown on the siege trigger (4h or so) to prevent potential abuses and diversify the siege opportunities. That suggestion wouldn't be too hard to input in the current model and would open more strategy, more integration of smaller guild in sieges, and less blobbing!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Galahorn said:

Yes, the state of siege is a bit disappointing since it becomes essentially a 15 min blob test with no contribution from smaller guilds outside the alliance.One way to improve this would be, like some suggestions already are pointing, to have a territory control mechanic that would trigger the siege. For example: 

There would be a shrine near portal that can be activated, siege timer starts. Within the hour, attackers need to control all forts and outpost in that territory to be able to damage the tree of life. This implies that, at anytime the defender (or a third party) could try to backdoor these points of control to protect their tree of life, until attacker retakes them. 

This would reduce blobbing since a bigger force of attackers would need to keep an eye on the secondary points of control to keep damaging the tree (same for defender that will need to organize secondary groups to harass the control points). It would also give an opportunity for third parties (smaller guilds, another alliance, mercenary guilds) to help one or the other side by helping that attacker protect those points or the defender retaking them (more strategy and politics)

It would remove the guild window time. Maybe there could be some kind of cooldown on the siege trigger (4h or so) to prevent potential abuses and diversify the siege opportunities. That suggestion wouldn't be too hard to input in the current model and would open more strategy, more integration of smaller guild in sieges, and less blobbing!

 

 

 

Very good suggestions to make campaign fun for more than a few minutes per day.

Edited by MacDeath

macdeath_sig.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was also directed to this thread by a friend so I'll give my thoughts. I do want to say that I did quit a couple years ago so I'm sort of speaking from a snapshot experience

 

- My number 1 reason is burnout. I feel like I wasted 6 years of my life just waiting for this game. I think I've been patient enough to give the team enough time to give a playable game, however the performance was super uncomfortable and laggy even 6 years after its conception. I understand that its an alpha, a beta and whatnot 
 

-I agree with a lot of durens assessment on lack of players, this was a huge problem when groups would just log out to avoid larger groups and then log off during off hours to reclaim territory or harvest resources. Sure its a type of counterplay but then the game is extremely boring. I don't think I have enough experience to comment on the other points.

-Broken promises and boring gameplay. I'm not sure what to say about this one. There were some cool examples of how voxels were used in the Kickstarter and eventually that turned into nothing. I constantly brought up my concerns about how boring healing was but I feel like my feedback was drowned out by louder voices. 

HECIfKy.jpg

 

Sugoi - Student Council President

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest issue currently aside from the ever present performance issue is timers. It was a vocal click of players that pushed for them out of self interest when there was all of 30-60 playing most of the time and the Keeps were the small wooden walled forts with pitiful guards.

I cannot understand why the SB model of a handshake siege wasn't used and the onus put on the attacking guild to buy the Bane seed to place to trigger the defending guild to choose the siege window inside primetime hours of the server. You want to siege a Keep you place your bane tree(s) @75k a pop.

Alliances in dregs is a fail, get rid of it and go back to the guilds being able to work together but at the risk of friendly fire. You already have a faction based ruleset and alliances have only turned dregs into this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Grivyn said:

The biggest issue currently aside from the ever present performance issue is timers. It was a vocal click of players that pushed for them out of self interest when there was all of 30-60 playing most of the time and the Keeps were the small wooden walled forts with pitiful guards.

I cannot understand why the SB model of a handshake siege wasn't used and the onus put on the attacking guild to buy the Bane seed to place to trigger the defending guild to choose the siege window inside primetime hours of the server. You want to siege a Keep you place your bane tree(s) @75k a pop.

Alliances in dregs is a fail, get rid of it and go back to the guilds being able to work together but at the risk of friendly fire. You already have a faction based ruleset and alliances have only turned dregs into this.

  • Nothing wrong with siege timers. They do work to organize large fights, but occasionally fail due to multiple objectives being vulnerable at the same time. Handshake sieges would be a nice addition though.
  • Gonna have to disagree on alliances. They're working great in campaign. I'm not sure what you mean by "a fail". They seem like a success in most ways I can think of.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Would really like to to see Crowfall copy the Albion Online model of passive training. This system allows for a time base leveling of the passive skills along side an experience base mechanic. Would aid the something to do between off hour sieges as well crowd. Would also bring value to the vip system as the premium system with learning points did for Albion Online. This is a hybrid system of leveling skills allowing for a time base point reward system to co-exit along side in game gain experience to level skills mechanic. 

https://albiononline.com/en/guides/article/Destiny-Board+8

 

While we are at it look at Albion's anti zerg blob mechanics 

https://albiononline.com/en/news/brief-guide-to-zerg-mechanics

Edited by Barab

Hammers High !!  Master Brewer of the Dwarven Hold Mithril Warhammers

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

this is going to be plain and simple with little elaboration

1.  the vessel system, while nice and unique:  I simply dont like it. 

-The randomness and power levels within the same color vessels if off putting, and too punishing that leads 

to being non competative.

IE  I have a WHITE vessel templar that has more HP and the SAME ATK power as a green vessel templar-- thats frankly-- poorly thought out implementation of game design.

2.  Disciplines 

I like the varied aspects of the system  BUT I dont like the fact that you have to have same colored discs to fit vessels with.

-again--  this once more leads to a grind-- albeit non traditional.  Id much rather grind levels than hope a pray i know a crafter that can make me things--- as I never craft in the last 19 years of any mmo Ive played.

3.  Class bias

too many classes are cleary favored by you devs, while other are simply neglected.

The fact that man you devs come from Shadowbane  shows the clear bias towards the barbarian and monster race bias you had there  IE Shadowbane Cent/Mino Barb  is essentially the same thing we are seeing here with Pitfighters/Myrmidons as an example.

These classes are clearly superior to anything else out there-- and they heal better than dedicated healers while dishing out good damage, and are given crazy on demand defensives as well.

Assassins in this game are a joke

Poor ultimate that you fail to address, even though many of us here have loudly told you the problem.

Poor damage for class that's-- well supposed to be an assassin.

these are some of the blatant examples.

4.  Lack of tab targeting.  Hey Guild Wars 2 has tab target AND ACTION combat.  The way you have designed the game dictates that tab targeting is needed.

the scrum of mass pvp is so god awful you cant tell WTH is happening. 

 You cant tell if you are being targeted- you are  constantly bombarded from a far by hundreds of AE spam spells.

If a target is called its extremely difficult to find that target-- which means mass AE ranged damage is king.

More importantly, as a healer-- you cant reliably heal people that need a healed.

And dont get me started on the turret style of the paladin healing.

There are ZERO indicators of enemy spells and friendly spells-- and again-- another game does this well and thats Eldar Scrolls Online.

This leads to, and fuels the fire for mass zerging- and takes away any semblance of skill or tactics, as all one needs is numbers and mass AE range spam to win.  

5. Time gating of everything

how can you make a pvp game, where the people who first got the game are going to be more wildly more powerful that later entrants and there is ZERO catch up mechanic.

You look at the combat trees- the sub combat trees- and the sub sub combat trees after that-- 

there are multiple damage bonuses and defensive bonus that long timers will have versus the I just got here people.

Couple that with the MANDATORY CRAFTING BALONEY that is a super grind for not just the skill, but the resources as well

and you have weighted game that only a select few will be able to compete in.

This all leads to having ZERO FUN for this thing we are calling a game.

 

Edited by Gwaehir
Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall the game design is too restrictive.

  • Siege timers.
  • Chests timers.
  • "Elite" mob timers.
  • Thralls timers.
  • Motherlode timers.
  • Campaign timers.
  • Respawn timers.
  • Passive Training is one giant time gated system requiring some sort of catch up that potentially defeats the purpose of passive training.
    • Decreases the accessibility and value of new players and or training something new.
    • Limits the fun factor of what are supposed to be "main" roles that one can play.
  • DF Card only provide a few routes to earn points.
    • Double or more the number of cards per season/campaign for more variety and potential from different sizes of guilds/alliances.
  • Need more options to win campaigns either instead or along side the point model.
    • Points leads to gaming the system which may not involve direct conflict.
    • Guilds should be able to trigger win conditions, speed up the seasons, and cause campaigns to end.
  • Despite the huge list of stats, only a handful are available from PVE for crafting or general use.
    • Spread ALL the stats across all the tiers of harvested and mob drops.
      • Makes all material tiers have value for everyone.
  • Crafters have a small number of stats to play with due to predetermined stats for vessels/items along with what PVE sources provide.
    • Allow more stat variety and quantity per vessels and items.
    • Comes from having more stats available from harvesting and other sources.
    • Complexity is not clicking the UI a bunch and having vaults full of materials with slight differences in a handful of stats. Complexity is being able to do what we want with those resources and clicks.
  • Vessel talents are very linear with little actual viable/good "hard" choices.
    • Multiple community suggestions that use the current talent choices in a more interesting layout.
  • Domains and the new Disciplines are quantity over quality.
    • Lots of good new choices but only a couple Discipline slots for them.
      • More Major/Minor slots would help.
    • Devs deciding Disciplines per Domain and what race/class/promo/domain gets each decreases tons of potential viable builds.
      • Ability to pick more then 1 Promo Domain and or having the main Class Domain be free would help.
  • 5 Player Groups are too small. Try 6,8,10
  • No Warband/Raid system.
    • GvG/Faction Siege RvR games need this.
  • Cap on AOE powers.
  • Cap on stats per vessel and item.
    • If there is a proper balance, reaching 100% Crit should come at the cost of a lot of AP, Crit Dmg, Health, etc.
  • Limited bank and inventory space despite the massive number of items and quality levels.
  • PVP is limited to ganking those doing PVE and limited Siege events which swing heavily towards numbers and blob play. Those seeking remotely competitive PVP have what is essential open world dueling without any meaningful outcomes beyond who has to stare at respawn timers.
    • Plenty of suggestions and other game examples of how to make PVP more interesting and a reason to log in at anytime.
      • Conquest mechanics that involve game play changing buffs/debuffs/rewards (not just more chests) for capturing Outposts and POI.
        • Get Crazy: Hold all Campaign Outposts for 8 hours, win the Campaign
      • Player PVP rewards (any role rewards) that are on-going, per vessel, per campaign, etc. Some individual incentive to stick it out for a month despite a guild having no chance at winning. Cosmetics, titles, trophies, EK stuff, consumables.
      • Leaderboards.
Edited by APE

 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/5/2020 at 3:38 PM, ACE-Tiggs said:

As requested: I've split this post from the original news post that it was buried in, so that others can view and provide their feedback to this topic.  

You should have let it die. Its going to be nothing but negativity due to how poorly ACE is doing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...