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Feedback on the current state of the game


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Lack of population has been an ongoing problem for Crowfall, and the designers need to take some time to work out why that is and what they can do to fix it. There are tens of thousands of people

So yea I normally stay away from the forums due to trolls and negativity regardless, I've been summoned from my crafting corner of solitude. I am probably going to be the only person to disagree with

The main problem with the game now is the low level of content that drives PvP. PvP should be at the center of everything in this game whether it is sieges, farming, crafting or gathering. Here are so

I am a newer player. Played about 3 months and left.....I had/have high hopes. First, thanks for all your suggestions. A well versed community can make a difference.

What bothers me..

There is definitely an imbalance in skills and classes. Many of them are just plain broke. 

PVE is boring. Running around killing npc's for money and xp. Decent drops in PVE rarely if ever happen. There is no depth to quests.

Crafting - Ill make this one easy..copy SWG. To the T. Right now its boring, too dependent on other crafters and resources suck as a solo player. 

Guilds - What are you thinking? Having to register online? It should be in game.

Banks - Why do I need to unload my bank every time a campaign is over. Why do I need to load Items? Again, just tedious. Also the bank UI needs a lot of work. 

Item Decay - Just a pain in the ass considering drop rate is terrible.

Vendors - Having to go to the log in screen to get to vendors is #@#$@#! 

PVP

Is boring. I have spent a decent time in PVP and on many occasions ran around and never saw another player. Heck I spent 40 minutes near a bank, nada. The outposts are too weak. As an assassin with medium gear, I am able to solo most outposts. This should not be possible. Next question, what does conquering an outpost provide for the attacking group? I may be new, but I can't tell.

Keeps. Get rid of the timers. Redesign the keeps that there are enough NPC's that would require a 20 man group to take the keep. If players enter the keep, it just gets harder and more entertaining. Create a master trophy that realms can celebrate conquering. If you played DAOC you remember the 3 am phone calls to tell you its time to log in.

PVP zones - Needs to be 3 separate faction controlled zones. All fighting for the opportunity to maintain control of a "trophy" Heck Ill make it easy, just copy everything DAOC did for PVP. Including the waiting room. The anticipation and comradery was fun. 

Most important criticism - Population, Population, Population. A weak PVP and lack of PVE makes this game unplayable.

Add a Darkness falls type dungeon

 

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7 hours ago, Ble said:

Healer comments

Forcing groups to be 2/5 healers is really bad. Feedback has been given about why 5 man groups are bad, yet it has always been ignored. Increasing group size will allow for specific discs to be better AND increase class diversification. I know I know the spreadsheets say different. The nuts and bolts of Crowfall feels like a spreadsheet and the sheet SUCKS. 

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Yo ACE! @ace-tyrant @jtoddcoleman @ACE-Tiggs

Do NOT overly listen to the players suggestions. We don't all want the same things in a game and we'll pull you in 20 different directions. If you try to satisfy ALL of us it will Frankenstein the game and no one will enjoy it. Stick with your core design ideas.

Do accept SOME of the suggestions that would make the game more fun to play (without bending the core design too far). 

How will you know which ones need to be incorporated? Have Tiggs do a survey followed up with a focus group. 

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28 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

Yo ACE! @ace-tyrant @jtoddcoleman @ACE-Tiggs

Do NOT overly listen to the players suggestions. We don't all want the same things in a game and we'll pull you in 20 different directions. If you try to satisfy ALL of us it will Frankenstein the game and no one will enjoy it. Stick with your core design ideas.

Do accept SOME of the suggestions that would make the game more fun to play (without bending the core design too far). 

How will you know which ones need to be incorporated? Have Tiggs do a survey followed up with a focus group. 

What are you talking about? They left their core design a while back, why do you think the game is so wrecked?

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10 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

What are you talking about? They left their core design a while back, why do you think the game is so wrecked?

They did leave the core design and, IMO, it was to satisfy some squeaky wheels on the forums and discord. IMO, most of those changes were bad for the game. It isn't easy to listen to the players without OVER listening but it's very important to do so.

IMO, the game ACE had originally planned would have been fun. What we have today isn't fun and MOST people play games to have fun. Players who aren't having fun soon leave. 

A PvP focused game doesn't work without a lot of players. Players ARE the content in Crowfall.

Edited by MacDeath

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4 hours ago, mystafyi said:

That wont help at all. This game would need tons of resources building out themepark. Unless they go back to core design, this is going to be a spectacular train wreck.

 

Themepark is like quest content taking you from zone to zone, like a themepark.

I'm talking about instanced dungeons or arenas. Even just an instanced arena you can queue into would be an improvement on some level.

Albion Online is not a theme park in my opinion. 

ACE should have watched Albion Online closely, in my opinion Albion Online has executed on the supposed vision of Crowfall more effectively.

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3 hours ago, MacDeath said:

Yo ACE! @ace-tyrant @jtoddcoleman @ACE-Tiggs

Do NOT overly listen to the players suggestions. We don't all want the same things in a game and we'll pull you in 20 different directions. If you try to satisfy ALL of us it will Frankenstein the game and no one will enjoy it. Stick with your core design ideas.

Do accept SOME of the suggestions that would make the game more fun to play (without bending the core design too far). 

How will you know which ones need to be incorporated? Have Tiggs do a survey followed up with a focus group. 

What are you talking about???

This game is where its at BECAUSE THEY DEVIATED FROM THE ORIGINAL PUSH/PITCH BACK IN 2016!!!

I dont have a SINGLE friend logging into this game now.  It was ORIGINALLY titled as "shadowbane/EQ" dev's with a PvP world control rinse/repeat MMO.  (no different than when Shadowbane had a massive zerg/guild finally take over a whole server.)

What we have is NOTHING like what the original sale was.  So YES, they NEED to listen to the original backers, drop all this "time-waste crafting/necro/resets" and give us "FUN".  I don't have time to dedicate my life to "crafting gear" and "sitting at timers" for hours on end.  In my 20's fine, but the majority of these backers came here for PvP and nostaliga.

We got neither.

Wrain

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I agree with everything mentioned in original post...


These days I log in, spend my passive points, log out. Even then I am loosing interest in doing that also. That is the game they have made. Anyone I introduce to the game plays for like 3 days, realizes they cant progress due to the passive skill tree & then logs out never to be seen again..

I get them wanting a catchup mechanic for those who cant play all the time, but that doesn't mean those who wish to work and progress their skills should not be able too. Why not just use skill book type things and allow those who don't spend time in the game to get a huge xp booster or points earned to buy books etc? would allow those who wish to work on stuff to go ahead and feel like they are achieving something & the casual players to still catch up when they get chance.

 

 

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What core changes are you guys talking about - just so I can understand your points? The biggest changes I remember was adding a leveling system and reducing some of the reliance on passive training (but I don't think that's what you are referring to?)

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13 hours ago, Zatch said:

Forcing groups to be 2/5 healers is really bad. Feedback has been given about why 5 man groups are bad, yet it has always been ignored. Increasing group size will allow for specific discs to be better AND increase class diversification. I know I know the spreadsheets say different. The nuts and bolts of Crowfall feels like a spreadsheet and the sheet SUCKS. 

I agree totally.  Changing the group size would help the current iteration of healer gameplay - BUT - healer gameplay is horrible, so even though it would flow better, it still would not be a fun overall experience, IMO.  But yeah, I'm all for making horrible things somewhat less horrible, so I'm with you there.

Over the years I've seen nearly every prominent healer main give multiple healer experience breakdowns and suggestions - probably >100 suggestions on how to make it better.  Even if you think that every single one of those suggestions is wrong/bad, you at least have to recognize the number of healer mains that are effectively saying "healing needs work". 

 

If we had a follow command people would just bot healers, its that bad.

 

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On 11/10/2020 at 8:17 PM, MacDeath said:

Stick with your core design ideas.

 

On 11/10/2020 at 8:47 PM, mystafyi said:

What are you talking about? They left their core design a while back, why do you think the game is so wrecked?

 

23 hours ago, Wrain said:

This game is where its at BECAUSE THEY DEVIATED FROM THE ORIGINAL PUSH/PITCH BACK IN 2016!!!

What core design did they have to deviate from?

Go back to KS, they pitched some big picture dream vision board hype to get our money.

For the most part Crowfall is what they said it would be at its core. Sounds good on paper, but difficult to create.

Removing leveling, EKs working, an actual economy, real social tools, and other such things individually or as a whole wouldn't magically make this into a different game. Might be better depending on who you ask, but I doubt the core game play or interest in it would be all that different.

Apparently people don't like to play as individual units in a RTS. Especially when that 20 min experience is stretched out across days/weeks/months.

 


 

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19 minutes ago, APE said:

 

 

What core design did they have to deviate from?

Go back to KS, they pitched some big picture dream vision board hype to get our money.

For the most part Crowfall is what they said it would be at its core. Sounds good on paper, but difficult to create.

Removing leveling, EKs working, an actual economy, real social tools, and other such things individually or as a whole wouldn't magically make this into a different game. Might be better depending on who you ask, but I doubt the core game play or interest in it would be all that different.

Apparently people don't like to play as individual units in a RTS. Especially when that 20 min experience is stretched out across days/weeks/months.

Thanks, yeah I also asked @wrain @mystafyi etc for specifics on what the "original" core system was and how it has drastically deviated, but didn't see a response. 

Edited by ilogos
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1 hour ago, APE said:

 

 

What core design did they have to deviate from?

Go back to KS, they pitched some big picture dream vision board hype to get our money.

For the most part Crowfall is what they said it would be at its core. Sounds good on paper, but difficult to create.

Removing leveling, EKs working, an actual economy, real social tools, and other such things individually or as a whole wouldn't magically make this into a different game. Might be better depending on who you ask, but I doubt the core game play or interest in it would be all that different.

Apparently people don't like to play as individual units in a RTS. Especially when that 20 min experience is stretched out across days/weeks/months.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crowfall/crowfall-throne-war-pc-mmo

Feel free to look at what we wanted.  See that creation page?  See the archtypes???  The character rune creation alone was absolutely perfect.  Like I've stated over and over, this WAS what was being sold too us for money.   Sorry, but I don't see ANYTHING Like this.  Caps on stats, character archetype locks, bland world, eternal kingdoms are pointless, clunky migration of items/rewards...

I dont have time nor the desire to even breakdown any of this.  It just upsets me there are MORE people playing Shadowbane still than this game.  It really just ticks me off because i'm still wanting this game to come out on top.

Wrain

Edited by Wrain
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52 minutes ago, ilogos said:

Thanks, yeah I also asked @wrain @mystafyi etc for specifics on what the "original" core system was and how it has drastically deviated, but didn't see a response. 

And my apologies Ilogos, i'm a little behind responding to you, hope the above link/post clears it up.

Wrain

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27 minutes ago, Wrain said:

And my apologies Ilogos, i'm a little behind responding to you, hope the above link/post clears it up.

Wrain

Thanks, definitely in regards to character customization I see your points. Also, the gameplay as in the collision detection/movement/and all of the above looks a lot smoother in the trailer than in the current build. Hopefully these are some things they can polish before release. I think they have considered adding perks back to character creation?

And I think it is worth giving your time for the feedback if you haven't already or if you do find time for it - I haven't particularly given up at this point on CrowFall and I think if they do push the release back to 2021 (Which I hope they are doing) that there is still some time to make it a good mmorpg.

Edited by ilogos
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15 hours ago, ilogos said:

Thanks, yeah I also asked @wrain @mystafyi etc for specifics on what the "original" core system was and how it has drastically deviated, but didn't see a response. 

Its a long list, but off the top of head, no loot drops from npc's, no leveling, no grind for the sake of grind, full loot, no questing, large scale battles and throne war mechanics. 

edit: btw these are simply what ACE themselves highlighted as core to the game and not passing statements in a forum post.

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17 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

Its a long list, but off the top of head, no loot drops from npc's, no leveling, no grind for the sake of grind, full loot, no questing, large scale battles and throne war mechanics. 

edit: btw these are simply what ACE themselves highlighted as core to the game and not passing statements in a forum post.

Some of that is not accurate. Like, they never promised "no loot drops" and they never promised "full loot." They talked about scavenging gear in the kickstarter, and they talked about varying looting rules.

They did say no leveling. So that part is accurate, but it remains a small part of the game.

"Large scale battles" is open to interpretation. Like, how large? We've had fights with 150 people in them and that is fairly large. But I think everyone agrees that performance needs serious work in that area.

"Throne war mechanics" is especially open to interpretation. We have mechanics for people to fight over control of the campaigns worlds and someone emerges as the victor. Only one guild can win (though they can get help from allies) and a guild only has one guild leader. That person "won the throne" for that campaign.

Could they make cooler mechanics? Absolutely. But the notion that they "left the core design" is just not accurate.

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2 hours ago, Jah said:

Some of that is not accurate. Like, they never promised "no loot drops" and they never promised "full loot." They talked about scavenging gear in the kickstarter, and they talked about varying looting rules.

Now you know full well they did indeed say there would be no dropped gear and everything would be player made.  As for full looting pvp, yes there was to be varying degree;s of paperdoll looting, gods reach would have 0% and dregs would have 100%. Now we have 0% paperdoll looting.

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I still don't understand the point of any conversation that starts with "They said X in kickstarter and now its like Y"

I mean, you're making a factual statement, but you're doing so with feedback to, what, convince developers who know exactly what that plan was, and then deliberately chose to deviate from it to... just scrap all the work done on these other systems to realize a "pure" vision of a draft level design document?

I mean its one thing to make a case for why changing a feature would be better, but if the reasoning is "because it was this way in kickstarter" you're just making an appeal to an authority that already decided that no, it wasn't.

Any given argument is instantly more persuasive if it makes its points based on the merits of the design without going "but in kickstarter" IMO. Tell people why a thing is better in stead of telling them why a thing was listed on a webpage. I don't really want some of the stuff as it was designed in kickstarter given some modern alternatives, and some of those elements still seem like decent ideas.

If "It was on the kickstarter page" is your be all end all bible, you can't then pick and choose which bits you like.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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