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Crowfall PvP balancing


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  • I Was thinking on how Crowfall could be balanced to make every class enjoyable or at least viable. The idea behind it high risk-high reward.
    • Damage:
      • single target mellee dmg increase: Leather classes +30%, Mail classes 15%, Plate classes 5%
      • Aoe mellee dmg + 7% , no Increase if Target ´s HP is under 50%
      • Ranged AOE dmg reduction by 30% and by 40% if the target´s Hp is under 50%
      • Ranged single target dmg reduction -0% to leather classes, -10% mail classes , - 15% plate classes
    • Healing:
      • Aoe healing reduction by 20% and by 30% if the target´s HP is under 50%
      • Single target Increas heals by 7 % and by 12% if the Target´s Hp is under 50%
      • Dot healing increase by 15 %
  • Examples of this would be:
    • A leather wearing Assassin that needs to put himself in harms way to attack his target, should deal more Damage than an archer shooting from the safety of the backline.
    • An Archer that needs to locate and aim at his target to shoot , should do more damage than an Archmage droping a shatter strom on an area without having to aim at a specific target.
    • Aoe damage should never be a finisher or able to nuke  players, if so , there´s no incentive in playing single target classes like assassins or dirges. and The PvP will end up like it was in for example in Warhammer online or Elder scrolls online, where the group with more aoe dammage wins the fights
    • Right now if you are planning the Comp of your group for the PvP you will probably do very well if you bring only Stormscallers and Archmages as DammageDealers and Clerics as Healers. With this changes as a Party leader you will be forced to bring a more mixed group Like Archmages as DD starters and Assassins as DD finishers, Clerics as stabilising healers and Inquisitors as Spike Healers.

Just as I side note, this is only my opinion aiming to start a healthy debate.

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54 minutes ago, Aurellius said:
  • I Was thinking on how Crowfall could be balanced to make every class enjoyable or at least viable. The idea behind it high risk-high reward.
    • Damage:
      • single target mellee dmg increase: Leather classes +30%, Mail classes 15%, Plate classes 5%
      • Aoe mellee dmg + 7% , no Increase if Target ´s HP is under 50%
      • Ranged AOE dmg reduction by 30% and by 40% if the target´s Hp is under 50%
      • Ranged single target dmg reduction -0% to leather classes, -10% mail classes , - 15% plate classes
    • Healing:
      • Aoe healing reduction by 20% and by 30% if the target´s HP is under 50%
      • Single target Increas heals by 7 % and by 12% if the Target´s Hp is under 50%
      • Dot healing increase by 15 %
  • Examples of this would be:
    • A leather wearing Assassin that needs to put himself in harms way to attack his target, should deal more Damage than an archer shooting from the safety of the backline.
    • An Archer that needs to locate and aim at his target to shoot , should do more damage than an Archmage droping a shatter strom on an area without having to aim at a specific target.
    • Aoe damage should never be a finisher or able to nuke  players, if so , there´s no incentive in playing single target classes like assassins or dirges. and The PvP will end up like it was in for example in Warhammer online or Elder scrolls online, where the group with more aoe dammage wins the fights
    • Right now if you are planning the Comp of your group for the PvP you will probably do very well if you bring only Stormscallers and Archmages as DammageDealers and Clerics as Healers. With this changes as a Party leader you will be forced to bring a more mixed group Like Archmages as DD starters and Assassins as DD finishers, Clerics as stabilising healers and Inquisitors as Spike Healers.

Just as I side note, this is only my opinion aiming to start a healthy debate.

  • You advocate quite a few extreme damage % changes and I'm not sure your numbers make sense. Eg. Yes, assassin/dirge/swordsman need to put themselves in harms way, but they also have defensive abilities and cooldowns that an Archer does not have, so they can protect themselves or escape when pressured. An archer does not have this luxury.
  • Arguably, ground-targeted AoE spells are actually *harder* to land in this game and should do more damage than "aim-and-shoot" abilities. The aiming window is very generous in this game, and once a target is locked, the shot cannot miss. Shatterstorm, by contrast can easily miss if the fight moves out of its AoE. Right now, there is counterplay to AoE, but no counterplay to single-target skills. If I had to rank skill types in this game from most skillful to least, it would be: 
    1. aimed / ground targeted skills with travel time and animation (eg. tornados, moving orbs, anything that can be dodged with normal movement)
    2. aimed ground targeted aoe where the player has to catch their target (eg. Binding Arrows)
    3. target-locked melee skills
    4. pbaoe
    5. target-locked ranged skills

    Of course, it depends on a lot of things - animation time, size of aoe, etc, but that's just my general feeling so far. I don't think I would want to give any more power to target-locked ranged attacks unless there was some active way of mitigating them. Currently there is not. See: 
  • I think it's too early to be calling what is necessarily required in a comp. It may be that Clerics, Archmages, and Stormcallers are very good or even required .. or it may not. We won't know until there is more testing in real fights with even numbers + similar gear.
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1 hour ago, nihilsupernum said:
  • You advocate quite a few extreme damage % changes and I'm not sure your numbers make sense. Eg. Yes, assassin/dirge/swordsman need to put themselves in harms way, but they also have defensive abilities and cooldowns that an Archer does not have, so they can protect themselves or escape when pressured. An archer does not have this luxury.
  • Arguably, ground-targeted AoE spells are actually *harder* to land in this game and should do more damage than "aim-and-shoot" abilities. The aiming window is very generous in this game, and once a target is locked, the shot cannot miss. Shatterstorm, by contrast can easily miss if the fight moves out of its AoE. Right now, there is counterplay to AoE, but no counterplay to single-target skills. If I had to rank skill types in this game from most skillful to least, it would be: 
    1. aimed / ground targeted skills with travel time and animation (eg. tornados, moving orbs, anything that can be dodged with normal movement)
    2. aimed ground targeted aoe where the player has to catch their target (eg. Binding Arrows)
    3. target-locked melee skills
    4. pbaoe
    5. target-locked ranged skills

    Of course, it depends on a lot of things - animation time, size of aoe, etc, but that's just my general feeling so far. I don't think I would want to give any more power to target-locked ranged attacks unless there was some active way of mitigating them. Currently there is not. See: 
  • I think it's too early to be calling what is necessarily required in a comp. It may be that Clerics, Archmages, and Stormcallers are very good or even required .. or it may not. We won't know until there is more testing in real fights with even numbers + similar gear.

You can't dodge ice lance because it's not a projectile. It's a hit scan. 

The projectile you see is just a spell effect and they put a delay in on the flytext showing. That's all. 

There are very few projectiles left in Crowfall. Tornado, ghost army, piercing orb, stuff like that are projectiles. That's about it. 

Blazzen <Lords of Death>

YouTube - Twitch - Website

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13 minutes ago, blazzen said:

You can't dodge ice lance because it's not a projectile. It's a hit scan. 

The projectile you see is just a spell effect and they put a delay in on the flytext showing. That's all. 

There are very few projectiles left in Crowfall. Tornado, ghost army, piercing orb, stuff like that are projectiles. That's about it. 

Yes. That's what I meant by linking that video. The video itself was more a complaint that lance looked like a projectile that could be avoided with movement, but isn't.

I was saying in the rest of the post that hitscan actually takes less skill than projectile / ground-targeted abilities in Crowfall because targeting is very forgiving and hitscan skills can't be avoided by dodges.

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I´m not talking about 5v5 or even 10v10. I´m talking about big fights involvin 50+ players.

  1. Even if it´s a hitscan, you need, to find the target you want to shoot at in a cluster of enemies, and that´s it sometimes very hard in a battle, while droping an aoe in a cloud of enemies is a LOT easier.
  2. I dont know if you ever played a dirge, Assasin or even a Swordsman in a big fight, but as soon as they are targeted there is not defensive abilites that will help them survive more than 3 seconds.  Targeting them is a lot easier than targeting an archer, because they are near you, inside your group, while to reach an archer you need to go through a whole enemy´s Frontline

 

What I´m trying to say is that Right know if I want to form a "viable" Group composition , I dont have  a real incentive in bringing something like single target damage dealers , and what is even worse , having a leather assasin, Dirge in your group is like having one man less. Because they cant survive long enough where they are supposed to be to be effective. That´s why reducing Aoe damge should allow these "squishes" to survive a little longer if they are not targeted directly.

And the actual AoE PvP based system we have  is almost the same as the one we had in Warhammer and ESO. In those games, big fights revolved about bringing as much AoE as possible, and that usually was one or two classes, so you ended up having a 50+ Man group with 20+ Mages. And we also  see in Crowfall it right now:  a 20 man group with 10 Archmages , will always win against a 20 man group with 5 archmages and 5 archers.

Edited by Aurellius
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