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Vindicators - Almost there (ACE pls read)


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Hi,

I've been only playing this build since 6.2 since we launched.  I'm a fire domain vindi with judgement/DL/Devotion/Fiery Devotion/Retribution/Censure + the rest of vindi talents.  It's a very fun build with decent burst damage however it's still missing one aspect.   I'm not saying it either has to be one or the other but it either needs 1) More survivability 2) More Mobility/Slowing abilities.   I've been trying to develop ideas without either 1) making them OP or 2) making them to similar to other melee damage classes mainly champs/myrms/knights.   Let's examine each aspect individually.

Increasing Survivability

Right now devotion is a vindicator's only 'real' option for healing.  The problem with devotion is 1) relative short duration. 2) Damaged dependent and capped.  IT's a bit of a nuisance to keep up really and often with the relative short window a vindicator has to decide a fight (Due to lack of suvivability) one global CD can be a make or break situation.    Also doesn't help us when we're kited or out of range of our opponents.

Here are a few solutions:

1)  Give us back the heal in divine light except make it self-only.  We lose the ability to help others but give us some other self-healing option and not be so devotion-dependent.   

2) A sin consuming mechanism that allows us to consume all the stacks of sin we have on an opponent into a heal.  ( I like this option better cause it's more strategic). 

3) A pip activated dmg absorbing Fire-Barrier (we are kind of like confessors with swords right?) which can also dmg the opponent when they hit it.   It could go nuclear like Force Mage barrier when expired (very scary).

More Mobility or Slowing Abilities

Ok, Let's examine Censure for the moment.  It's probably one of the worse gap closers in the game.  It's so elevation dependent and I often end up swinging over the heads of opponents and missing the stun.  It's the only thing we got at the moment but it's not that dependable.   Moving on let's examine a similar class from another game.  Vanilla Wow Retribution paladins had similar gap closing and opponent finishing issues the vindicator has.  Wow developers had some creative solutions which I will share.

        Retribution Paladin Solutions to mobility issues

1)  Give all vindicators a 15% combat speed boost.  Ret Paladins ran faster in combat then many other classes.  This help them make up for their lack of range.  (Pursuit of Justice was the ability's name)

2) Retribution Paladins had a spammable cleanse so any rooting effect or slowing effect could be instantly cleared.   They could also cleanse other group members making them uber useful.

3) Retribution Paladins also had a range stun that was on a short timer.

4) HoW - was the bane for many fleeing players with 20% health or lower.  It was a range damage dealer that really really hurt. 

        Other Creative Solutions - Slow or Stamina Drain

1) I like the idea of divine light adding a slow to opponents.  This gives vindicator's Divine Light another facet of utility.  I'd much rather dismount into a melee - slow everyone - and use censure to get the hell out of there.  Meanwhile I'm dmg'ing my opponents and keeping them slowed for my guildmates to catch up and fight.

2) A stamina draining ability - problem with stuns/knock downs is they are too easily retaliated out of and then we're still behind the eight ball trying to catch them let alone use DL on them.  This is aspect not covered by any of the other classes atm.  If I take away your stamina u cannot run away.   This could be tied divine shout or even a again vindi divine light thing.  Adds a stamina draining dot.  I'm sure you guys could implement something very cool that's not game breaking.

 

In conclusion, Vindicators are a scary class when u decide to stand right in front of us but right now the opponents have too much freedom on how/when to engage us and without the survivability to weather prolonged assault.  Anyways, thanks for listening.  I'm very please that ACE developers are taking our feedback to heart.

Cheers,

Fairlight

 

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I agree the main weakness with Vindicators is survivability.

Right now, I think it's difficult to play any form of Templar without taking Elken.  For closing gaps, I would love to use a roll or dash ability but not at the expense of Righteous Stand in my ability load-out.  With Elken, I get a second "charge" ability that also comes with a stun.

I'm not sure what the best answer is.  If it were me, I would remove the knock down from Righteous Parry and change it to a snare.  We have so many knock downs and stuns.  We have 1 root.  The knock down that comes with Parry is actually counter-productive in my views, because I use parry as a means to generate pips in most cases.

I think we should be very careful in drawing inspiration from other games.  I also think that we need to be aware of our personal play-style versus the class we have chosen.  A lot of the time players confuse a class as being bad without realizing that their personal play-style doesn't fit what the class is generally supposed to do.  I'm not suggesting this is you, just food for thought when suggesting changes.

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6 hours ago, Tofyzer said:

Im still working on my Vindicator build due to last days updates, but i can "see" some diversity around talent and domains.

They are in a nice shape atm, without be brainless OP

 

 

 

I agree they are much better but still very easy to counter if the opponent has 1/2 brain.  I like the discs for playstyle changes but the class should have access to a complete tool set before we 'have' to depend on Majors to even be viable.

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7 hours ago, Fairlight said:

I agree they are much better but still very easy to counter if the opponent has 1/2 brain.  I like the discs for playstyle changes but the class should have access to a complete tool set before we 'have' to depend on Majors to even be viable.

No doubt, DL could have something more utility besides tuned dmg.

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I find the older choices we had much better for the Vindicator than the current options we have.  Give us War over battle so we can build some synergy on them or swap out one of the others would be the main thing I would want for the Vindi. Currently a lot of the stuff that falls under any of the categories wont be helping since vindicators  hit the cap on fire , slashing and holy.  As we upgrade to higher quality Majors that +2%+ damage will be pointless to a vindicator and anything with pen would be the better choice since you'll be wasting stats.

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I think vindi just need the self healing divine light for the survivability. 
Talking about mobility the best way imho is to add a lunge great sword only for vindi, maybe for all Templar? And balance this kind of weapon with a lower base dmg.

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On 11/23/2020 at 1:44 PM, Horobi said:

I think vindi just need the self healing divine light for the survivability. 
Talking about mobility the best way imho is to add a lunge great sword only for vindi, maybe for all Templar? And balance this kind of weapon with a lower base dmg.

I always though a jumping spinning attack would look very cool.  I'd take anything though at this point.

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On 11/27/2020 at 5:32 AM, Horobi said:

we all know the archer rune trick but as most here says a class can't be dependent on a rune and, imho, most important u can't consider the dodge a real gap closer in any situation for a melee

yeah that's like a hack.  Plus u'r wasting GBL CDs.  By the time yet get the Melee tray back who knows where the hell the enemy PC is.

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