Livestream 12/1/2020 Discussion, Feedback and Questions

[ACE-Tiggs 3,350]

We'd love to see your feedback from today's livestream on the Transition from Passive Skills into Disciplines.  

[Ranik 358]

Bleeds: Blair's explanation of Bleeds failed to address the actual problem with no bleeds stacking. Why build for powerful bleeds (Swordsman + Bloodletter) when someone elses left click bleed or instant cast ability will cause your bleed to not apply? 

Your DoT system is screwed up and you aren't addressing it at all. Theoretical vs Lost DPS or ability upgrades that probably won't even apply in any given 10 vs 10 is not a functioning system.  "Oh yeah swordsman gets an upgraded bleed but it probably won't even apply in any given fight" is not good game design Blair. 

 

Removing the passive system: This feels like a good immediate change but will remove all concept of long term progression other than endless grinding unless replaced with something.

 

You really need to replace passive training with something other than pure asset grind.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Ranik

[makkon 1,343]

I really hope you will not made crowfall something like a regular "WoW killer" which is really step back in every single aspect to WoW. you add already grindy/rng things like in korean games also. will see  ofc but now I really scared.

 

Main thing for today is removing/redesign passive training. If you remove passive training you will lose:

1) money gain from twinkz (bad for you good for us)

2) huge playerbase of lazy old guyz like me

and you already lose alot of time of ur and us trying to made it...

 

btw I really want to see passive training but not like it is right now.

passive training should be based on player activity:

1) you should unlock skills from passive training by exploring/mob farming/capturing forts/winning in dregs/etc and can lvl this skill with sacrificing items (gold/dust whatever)

2) you can put this (*unlocked) skill on slow lvling during offline for sacrificed items points

3) you can put this (*unlocked) skill on slow lvling for active points for winning in some game aspects

4) ... more things

5) you can transfer your experience to other players with some conditions (exp books)

6) you can even give some points to passive training for new players after a couple of years but they shoud unlock skills first like I mention in p1

think about it before you made irreparable changes.

 

and remember, if you cut more kickstarter's futures from Crowfall - this will not help but hurt. at the end you will get under average, unremarkable project which are huge in steam right now.

grind niche if fullfilled with asian projects. you are too far from this. full pvp is not compatible with grind.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by makkon

[AngryCatGirl 30]

I'm so excited about moving away from the passive skill tree.

My friends and I literally discussed yesterday how the passive skill tree prevents players from contributing meaningfully.

[Staff 971]

you guys mentioned factions for the 4th decapathon, is this going to be a faction campaign or did you mean guilds?

[Hungry 325]

I want to point out that the removal of passive training and putting those stats behind a grind gate further exacerbate the post-wipe (or 0 import) "sprint" to viability.  It already takes a lot of playtime going from no crafting vessels with no discs and no gear to crafting vessels with discs and gear to start making combat vessels with discs and gear, and now it will take even more to do so in order to remain competitive.

[Grivyn 312]

@jtoddcolemanCurrently I can passive train for Attention to Detail, Helper Monkey AND Risk Management.

The new system you are forcing me to choose between Helper Monkey and Risk Management with the final tool belt versions, why?

[galvia 621]

34 minutes ago, Ranik said:

You really need to replace passive training with something other than pure asset grind.

I think this is one the most valid criticisms of this upcoming system, and the game itself. Winning things in this game feels more like a relief than a victory. Being successful is not a reward in and of itself today. The rewards systems do help but I think there are more things to be done to keep people chasing the carrot so to speak.

If we look to other MMOs, most of this stuff is handled via cosmetics. Campaign rewards can help. Things like custom weapon effects/skins, unique mounts, titles or things like that will go a long way. I don't think making people want to login to keep passives rolling is good design - it's guilting people into staying engaged with the game. I think the real idea is to make the game genuinely fun as a driver for bringing them into the game.

[Grivyn 312]

15 minutes ago, galvia said:

I think this is one the most valid criticisms of this upcoming system, and the game itself. Winning things in this game feels more like a relief than a victory. Being successful is not a reward in and of itself today. The rewards systems do help but I think there are more things to be done to keep people chasing the carrot so to speak.

If we look to other MMOs, most of this stuff is handled via cosmetics. Campaign rewards can help. Things like custom weapon effects/skins, unique mounts, titles or things like that will go a long way. I don't think making people want to login to keep passives rolling is good design - it's guilting people into staying engaged with the game. I think the real idea is to make the game genuinely fun as a driver for bringing them into the game.

They have basically gone to the SB system with runes dropped in the world then slotted into characters, without passives you now have to go out into the world and PLAY the game not log into a 2 hour siege window every few days and "Profit". Now fix the harvesting/pig/fort balance.

[Hungry 325]

1 minute ago, Grivyn said:

They have basically gone to the SB system with runes dropped in the world then slotted into characters, without passives you now have to go out into the world and PLAY the game not log into a 2 hour siege window every few days and "Profit". Now fix the harvesting/pig/fort balance.

Except instead of fighting over a highly coveted rune dropper you are hitting T6 nodes in Infected for 100 hours trying to get the 135 disciplines you need.

[srathor 2,337]

There goes the baby in the bath water again. 

Old system
"You have to wait 3 months before crafting becomes relevant." 
"Nah don't bother, I can get better stats from king drops"

New system|
"You have to craft hundreds of things at vastly increased costs that noone wants for god knows how long before you might become relevant." 
"Nah don't bother, I can get better stuff from king drops."

Hey I honestly can't gripe too much, it is going to be a brand new system. But it is going to be just like every other game out there. The final tenets of what yall wanted to make out of the kickstarter idea is now gone. 



We will see what comes of this. At least the treadmills will be safe and measured and of little consequence other than to be endured.The math will be perfect, and the little unicorn rainbow farts will be the second or third coming on 5.3esus

[Bzra 597]

Players should be able to use gold (make it like a million) or a farmable item to respec one time. Then make it part of VIP to be able to respec when you want as many times as you want.

[Arkade 4,154]

1 hour ago, Hungry said:

I want to point out that the removal of passive training and putting those stats behind a grind gate further exacerbate the post-wipe (or 0 import) "sprint" to viability.  It already takes a lot of playtime going from no crafting vessels with no discs and no gear to crafting vessels with discs and gear to start making combat vessels with discs and gear, and now it will take even more to do so in order to remain competitive.

Remember that when the game is live, campaigns will be considerably longer. Also, not all campaigns will be zero import, so if that isn't your thing, don't join one that has zero imports.

[Kundrya 171]

Good changes, ty! 🙂

Please add a gate to grinding, so it doesn´t get out of hands. Perhaps lower chances after grinding mats of 10k value per day by 10 % per 1k.

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Kundrya

[RobbenDumarsch 46]

2 hours ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

We'd love to see your feedback from today's livestream on the Transition from Passive Skills into Disciplines.  

On this topic? Quite pleased indeed. I think a lot of the concerns in this thread about the grinding can and should be dealt with when they implement the system for getting your higher level disciplines - Hopefully they move away from RNG grind, as they alluded to, and find a fun way to get the unlocks which doesn't feel like repetitive action of unwanted activities, and more like a fun goal.

[APE 3,597]

VIP Advantage:

• Saying something is "convenience" instead of "P2W" doesn't remove the advantage it provides.
• Storage and Respecs 100% provide advantage. More so in this game then many others.
• I don't have an issue with needing to sell things to keep the game going long term, but don't tip toe through the grey area pretending it isn't what it is. Pressing the non-P2W topic while selling advantage doesn't go well. Unknowing customers will only be fooled so long. Gaming isn't fair and people can accept it or not but we shouldn't see gaming sites parroting "Crowfall isn't P2W" without any context.

Edited December 1, 2020 by APE

[SAM_BUKA 658]

28 minutes ago, APE said:

Respecs 100% provide advantage. More so in this game then many others.

I kinda agree with this statement. If VIP players can re-spec their Blue, Purple or even Gold quality vessels and non-VIPs can't re-spec at all, then this is a HUGE advantage.

Edited December 1, 2020 by SAM_BUKA

[nihilsupernum 678]

1 minute ago, SAM_BUKA said:

I kinda agree with this statement. If VIP players can re-spec their Blue, Purple or even Gold quality vessels and non-VIPs can't re-spec at all, then this is a HUGE advantage.

In any single engagement, it would not be an advantage, since I assume you would not be able to change things unless out of combat. Even then, I doubt much if any advantage could be gained by swapping a talent point around here and there - maaaybe by changing something with a long cooldown out for another talent, then changing back? Still, any advantage there would probably be outweighed by the time spent respeccing.

In a sense, you could consider the flexibility to be an advantage, but that only goes so far. You probably have different disciplines, weapons, and armour for different specs. We don't know if respeccing would unequip disciplines or destroy them, but realistically, the player would at minimum have to return to a bank or temple and swap a lot of different things when changing. Yes, that would effectively let them use 1 vessel rather than 2, but they would still need to have everything else ready to go for their other build.

I don't know. I personally would not be that bothered by it, and would consider it a fair VIP perk, though not one I'd be particularly interested in.

[Nevyn 224]

I have 2 suggestions for removing the RNG for the harvesting minor rune drops. 1. Have them purchasable for a rather large sum of whatever material they yield. 1000 green ore for 1 green miner rune. or 2. Have nodes yield skill tokens (a rank node would give 1 skill token, rank 4, would give 4 etc. and have these skill tokens tradeable at a vendor for a green rune.

I like taking the passive training out, but the one thing i did like about the passive skill trees is that it almost forced you to go from white to green, to blue etc. Now it seems that we will be able to skip colors if we want to. I think we do need some sort of throttle here... just not sure how one would do it unless, like in shadowbane combining 3 greens into a blue rune would have a timer, etc.

Respec on VIP is a good idea, as long as you make it so everyone can respec. Make it so that VIP get like 1 free respec per month, make it a token they can import. Everyone can buy respec tokens at the store for like half a month of VIP cost.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Nikko

[SAM_BUKA 658]

5 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

I don't know. I personally would not be that bothered by it, and would consider it a fair VIP perk, though not one I'd be particularly interested in.

ACE wants to make the game easier for new players. That definitely does it much harder for new players UNLESS they have VIP subscription, of course 😃
I don't know. Maybe this is their idea though. But you are right, it does not give you a direct advantage in the battle. But it lets you experiment more with your build and to make it stronger than non-VIP players have.