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More thoughts on the current state of the game


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This is a long-winded follow up to my long-winded post back in October.

With the active progression coming in 6.3, the RNG grind for advancement will be hell.  I know this is supposed to be only temporary until you can get another system in place, but the cost of advancement is going to be pretty staggering.

Character stuff aside, there are some gameplay issues that really need to be addressed.  Some you've mentioned, others you have not.

  1. Resource balance between forts/caravans/MLs/normal harvest nodes.
  2. Very little to do outside siege hours
  3. Very little to do as a small group - small group combat is where Crowfall shines, but there's no real reason to do any.  Anything that's worth bringing 5 people to do seems to be worth bringing 20.  Probably because there's nothing else to do for those 20.
  4. You have harvesting set up as a victim activity.  Harvesting is designed to attract the attention of predators, and the fights are skewed in the attacker's favor.
  5. Keeps don't feel like homes, the way cities did in Shadowbane, for example.  This may be a product of ridiculously short campaigns, but maybe you should look at it anyway.
  6. Crafting is still ridiculously click-intensive (try making armor coatings for 1 set of armor.  Go on.  I'll wait). It really needs a quality of life pass.
  7. Large fights need to be fixed.  There are no frontlines or back lines in large fights at the moment.  It's all stand in your team's ground target AE healing and dps anyone you can catch out of the other team's ground target AE healing.
  8. High mitigation builds feel bad.  They take little dmg and do little dmg.  So they get ignored in fights until all their allies are dead.  Tank specs need to provide mitigation buffs for their teams, not just themselves, or need powers that make them enough of a threat that opponents will target them instead of squishier allies.  The MMO concept of tanking doesn't work in a game where you can't taunt enemies to hold aggro.
  9. Can we please, for the love of all things holy, get a toggle to turn off those damned educational tips that pop up at night time or when you mouse over a plant, etc.?
  10. Group size should be adjustable per campaign.  I'd prefer to see groups of up to 8.
  11. Justice is a seriously crappy domain.  Please give it something interesting/useful.
  12. Outpost guards need to be higher rank.  Outposts need to have more value in terms of claiming land.
  13. There's no real throne war game in Crowfall.  Holding land isn't possible.  It really should be. Holding a keep and the surrounding outposts should be meaningful.  Taking outposts from an enemy should be meaningful.
  14. Handshake sieges need to happen.  What if you couldn't drop a bane circle (or whatever) until you'd captured all the outposts around a keep (or until the keep holders didn't own any outposts adjacent to their keep)?   Starting a siege needs to be massively expensive.  Sieges need to be appointment events where everyone on both sides wants to turn up, not a scheduled nightly pain in the rear.
  15. The fun element of the game is still in short supply.  The massive grind for active progression you've introduced will not help your cause.  Please rework gameplay to bring more fun elements in.  Crowfall should not feel like work.

 

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This. The game was already a huge grind before this active progression stuff with little payoff. You're adding more grind because you can't be bothered to iterate on passive training more than two times in five years despite iterating on crafting itself constantly, and making crafting more labor intensive every time with new drops, additives, gold sinks, equip slots, etc.

If you're that wiling to toss out such a major system with so little effort devoted to fixing its design problems because "it isn't fun" consider that grinding out hundreds of items you don't actually want or mining hundreds of low rank nodes you don't want (because you can't use tools to mine higher rank nodes until you've upgraded your discs, and its a waste of your time to mine at less than as close to 100 damage per strike as possible if you're trying to proc disc drops) is even less fun. Consider that having to loot not only resources, but additives, special belt items, and all this hogwash is not fun.

Consider that the active gameplay loop of crowfall, outside of PvP, is not fun because it is not rewarding. Every part of it rewards a pittance compared to the pile one needs to make anything and the laundry list of chores required to make anything was only balanced by the fact that what we made was actually useful.

Consider that you aren't making pvp accessible by creating more barriers to gearing up for pvp. Your crafting system is not designed to facilitate an item grind. You slapped an item grind on to it at the eleventh hour despite having a system set up specifically to produce high effort, high cost items under the assumption players are actually using those items.

No part of the crafting system is designed under the assumption players are using it to craft items in bulk, which is exactly what you are now asking players to do. Despite your assurances "You can progress way faster now" I ask you to consider that when that progression takes the form of active play it conflicts with doing every other part of the game, and you have phrased your campaign game as one in which every other part of the game is what is supposed to be important.

Crowfall at this juncture feels like two different games fighting with one another. You have the campaign systems, which say "get out there, go fight, all fight all day!" and the crafting and harvesting systems which say "Whoa there buddy, take some time to grind out a few hundred worthless boots, grind out xp for a new vessel, or a new discipline, and grind out another few hundred worthless boots. Also don't take too many risks! You'll break your gear and then you'll have to grind some more!"

Decide which game you're making. Are you making a game constructed around long term crafting and item progression, or a game structured around accessible economic push and pull to frame mass pvp conflict? These things conflict with one another.

Replacing one system people don't find fun with another system people don't find fun is not progress. It's just making people log in and click buttons to not have fun.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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27 minutes ago, Durenthal said:

Very little to do outside siege hours

I totally agree. The wide world is dead outside of siege hours. Literally like five people in infected on a Saturday night.

27 minutes ago, Durenthal said:

Very little to do as a small group

I'm playing with my friends, there's three of us. We literally cannot participate in campaigns at all, we'll get crushed. More things for small groups to do all across the board please!

27 minutes ago, Durenthal said:

Keeps don't feel like homes

I agree, there's no reason for players to actually use them when the temple has everything we need. Give us some reasons to actually use them. If they were more useful, then players might actually be out in the field more often.

27 minutes ago, Durenthal said:

Crafting is still ridiculously click-intensive

Another great point. I have de quervain's tenosynovitis, essentially carpal tunnel for your thumb. Mousing can be challenging, and crafting is exactly what I want to do!

28 minutes ago, Durenthal said:

Handshake sieges need to happen.  What if you couldn't drop a bane circle (or whatever) until you'd captured all the outposts around a keep (or until the keep holders didn't own any outposts adjacent to their keep)?   Starting a siege needs to be massively expensive.  Sieges need to be appointment events where everyone on both sides wants to turn up, not a scheduled nightly pain in the rear.

My friends and I were discussing this last night, nearly the same concept.

A friend came up with a system where guilds/factions start at "Cold War" where they can PvP outside of keeps/forts but not siege.  In order to siege, a faction/guild need to formally declare war, and he described it similar to your "handshake" system. 

I think this is a fantastic idea, handshake sieges mean that most agree to show up, so you get that good large-scale PvP. 

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23 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

This. The game was already a huge grind before this active progression stuff with little payoff. You're adding more grind because you can't be bothered to iterate on passive training more than two times in five years despite iterating on crafting itself constantly, and making crafting more labor intensive every time with new drops, additives, gold sinks, equip slots, etc.

I would just like to point out that one of those times was done over a thanksgiving weekend, by one person out of a team of 40 or so. 

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I particularly agree with points 2 & 3 about solo or small group play. I think they should remove siege timers off of Forts - maybe that will draw more people to PvP ? I really appreciate all the hard work the Crowfall Team put into the game, but the last two big changes with talent trees and passives were never my top concerns for the game. It's more about the game experience relating to what I can accomplish as a single player in the game while having fun.

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Everything in the world that there is to do needs to have significant value, often that is mutually exclusive. When things are either/or mechanics (harvesting, pack pigs, forts), then people just go for efficient/fun and tend to dismiss the others. We need to feel like we, as a guild, are making a tough choice between contesting a fort, guarding harvesters, running pack pigs, farming wartribe, capturing outposts, gathering additives, and pressuring our opponents. 

Right now, there is no choice, because we don't need to do anything.

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