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Invulnerable Guards - Looking for a reason why


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Hi friends,

This is a simple post from me today, much to your surprise. I come to the community asking a simple question and looking for your perspectives.

 

  • Can anyone make a strong argument for why guards are invulnerable?

 

It seems to make no sense that guards, which you build to protect your holdings, cannot be damaged or killed outside of siege windows. This is another risk-adverse gameplay design present in the current iteration of Crowfall. I wait with bated breath to hear your responses.

Edited by Ruq

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ACE, get your poorly made dergs together. I am so tired of agreeing with Ruq, for which I blame you. But I DO agree with Ruq. Make guards vulnerable at all times, and announce it in guild or alli

Hi friends, This is a simple post from me today, much to your surprise. I come to the community asking a simple question and looking for your perspectives.   Can anyone make a strong a

I agree that guards should never be Invulnerable.

ACE, get your poorly made dergs together. I am so tired of agreeing with Ruq, for which I blame you.

But I DO agree with Ruq. Make guards vulnerable at all times, and announce it in guild or alliance channel or something when they're being attacked. 

I truly don't mean any harm, but I fully mean the disrespect. 

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Im hoping that they are over now with game systems experimental  proofing tests and start tuning to what should be risk = rewards in general activities.

We want CF be the promised PvP game we got backed in.

As to point on question asked, i dont get why! Let Open world PvP be rewarding (loot Forts anytime of day) not some gated 1hour poor display when you are allowed.

 

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Outside of siege there is zero reason why they should not be killable. I think if anything make it so keep ones can't be killed but at least fort ones can. That way the current fort system could remain but AT LEAST I could try and kill guards and snipe the person logging in for the chest. Honestly outside of siege I think forts should have zero guards but I know I am the outlier. #removegaurds #deletemobilebanking

Edited by Communist_Puppy
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Well, for they were for the longest time, not vulnerable, and then for some reason I am unaware of, in the last few months they made them invuln.

Was there an explanation in the patch notes why?

The only quirk I could think of was that when they were neutral for uncaptured forts/keeps you could accidentally agro them while fighting somebody else in their vicinity. But I don't think that was a bad thing.

I suppose one thing that could have been a cause is the ability to kill the guards of a fort in between chest spawns, and set up an ambush when somebody from the fort owner faction logs in to loot. I can't imagine why that would be patched out, it sounds like good emergent gameplay to me.

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This would be neatly fixed and would encourage more content if fort windows were allowed to be manipulated through minor goals like outposts. We've been talking about it in-guild a lot, but capturing a certain amount of outposts opening forts up for capture would both give defenders enough time to sound the alarm for defense and allow content to take place with varied amounts of players outside of set fort window timers, as well as allow for an outnumbered guild to play guerilla and back cap outposts to prevent the fort from opening up. Then it wouldn't super matter that guards are invulnerable outside of fort windows because if you get a group together and win some fights you could make them vulnerable. Right now the push for content outside of banes seems to be pretty rough, we can roll through Vahagn looking for a fight with 3 or 4 of us but we often only find a couple people trying to run pigs, and mill around outside of the keep gates for a while aimlessly but no one's actually motivated to log in and stop us and we don't accomplish anything of real worth. Outposts actually being worth defending to protect fort windows would really encourage skirmishes and make for more prevalent and less scheduled fighting. If it wasn't for BAP keeping it interesting outside of our keep I'd be pretty bored outside of bane times, we go hunting for a fight for 2 hours sometimes and only find one or two.

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Also, +1 for Puppy on deleting mobile banking. People already farm GR instead of dregs, the game could use a bit more risk. Having the bank buff protect one inventory slot or something would make fights more rewarding while still letting people bank something that they really don't want to lose if devs want that to be a thing.

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3 minutes ago, veeshan said:

easy solution is they respawn no matter what the moment seiges go live.

This is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, IMO. Some convoluted planning of having the right numbers of people and the right gap between killing guards and them respawning, it just feels like a way of making the hour-long siege window into an hour and fifteen minutes long window, and it's not a reason not to have vulnerable guards.

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2 hours ago, Communist_Puppy said:

Outside of siege there is zero reason why they should not be killable. I think if anything make it so keep ones can't be killed but at least fort ones can. That way the current fort system could remain but AT LEAST I could try and kill guards and snipe the person logging in for the chest. Honestly outside of siege I think forts should have zero guards but I know I am the outlier. #removegaurds #deletemobilebanking

Make it so theyre always killable. They could make them harder to kill when a seige is inactive, but i should be able to jump the walls of a small keep and kill guards to protect an escape when i try to jump afkers.

I truly don't mean any harm, but I fully mean the disrespect. 

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Forts/Keeps are supposed to feel like an event. Being able to kill the guards when you want would take away from that and allow people to plan/act preemptively. I am not saying I agree with how it is, I just think this is why they made it like that.

Edited by Bzra
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28 minutes ago, Bzra said:

Forts/Keeps are supposed to feel like an event. Being able to kill the guards when you want would take away from that and allow people to plan/act preemptively. I am not saying I agree with how it is, I just think this is why they made it like that.

Nobody defends forts from start to finish anyway. Letting people kill the guards 10 minutes early would change very little in practice.

Invulnerable guards are just uncool.

IhhQKY6.gif

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2 minutes ago, Jah said:

Nobody defends forts from start to finish anyway. Letting people kill the guards 10 minutes early would change very little in practice.

Invulnerable guards are just uncool.

If there were more guilds/people, Forts would be fought over the whole hour. That's how it was in the past anyways, guilds would bounce from fort-to-fort for the whole hour, fighting along the way. I think Fort timers should be shorter IMO.

The way the system works now, if you made guards vulnerable at any time- you could run through my keep an hour before siege and kill all the guards before my guys even log in. When the siege goes live, you would smash the wards and tree in minutes without guards there to assist. Guards have a higher impact in siege then then do in forts when the keep is max rank. I think they are two separate topics.

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2 minutes ago, Staff said:

they were probably made invuln cause the devs saw scarlett go into a keep, kill all the guards prior to a siege and solo cap it

Possibly. That was more of an issue with how easy it was to kill immobile guards safely from from blocked line-of-site. That has been fixed.

I suspect the real reason is because certain risk-averse crafters whined about getting killed while they crafted in keeps.

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