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State of the knight 6.300


Durenthal
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For the past 5 years, knight has been ACE's whipping boy.

It lacks the sustain and damage to compete with the other melee classes.  Mitigation doesn't win fights.

Templar is an unwinnable fight for a knight.  Pitfighter is unbeatable.  Myrms have to be pretty awful for a knight to stand a chance.  The ranged classes mop us up pretty well, too.

Maybe I've just become a poor knight.  Knights, show me your videos of you beating these classes 1v1 in 6.2 or 6.3.  I want to see you beating a templar or a pitfighter, or a marginally competent myrm or brigand - teach me your ways.   Players of other classes who may think knight isn't gimped, post videos of knights kicking your butts 1v1 in 6.2 or 6.3.

No?

Then perhaps ACE needs to do a serious balance pass.   I'm sick and tired of knight being a chronically underpowered class.

State of the swordsman in 6.300

  • damage output is higher than it used to be.  If my target lets me unload, I can do pretty decent burst dmg.  Nothing close to a Titan, of course.  But better than swordsman used to have.
  • sustain has improved with the addition of resto strike to the valorous strike combo.  It's a pity that it's a 2 part combo with a split second combo portion with resto strike being on the E key, but it's an improvement.   Endurance also helps with sustain.   Sadly the combination of endurance and lifesteal is still way less than myrm or champion sustain (or even brigand or warden sustain).
  • Domains - War and Battle are decent.  Justice is entirely unsuited to swordsman (and to knight in general honestly).
  • Mitigation - mitigation is pretty weak on a swordsman (as you might expect from a supposed dps promotion).  Block is situationally useful, but using it costs us our attacks and a pile of our stamina.  Both of those are high costs - combined, they're a very high price to pay for increased mitigation.

 

State of the Sentinel in 6.300

  • Dmg output is mediocre.  CC is decent, but with retaliate so readily available, it doesn't feel strong.
  • Sustain is weak.  No valorous strike combo means no lifesteal, and having more stuns/KDs to trigger endurance more often isn't enough sustain on its own.
  • Domains:  Battle, Music, Justice.  Battle is ok.  Music has some niche options, Justice is weak.
  • Mitigation:  More mitigation than swordsman, but mitigation is weak compared to the sustain models of other classes.   In WoW Effective Health terms, mitigation is pretty low on the totem pole.

State of the Secutor in 6.300

  • Dmg is poor.  Secutor is the "tank" spec and tank specs are weak in PvP games to start with.  Mitigation tanks in particular are terrible (sustain tanks like pitfighter are so much stronger)
  • Sustain is weak.  You can dramatically reduce incoming dmg, but you only have endurance to reverse it in the base promotion, and it's not enough.
  • Domains: Death, Justice, and Nature.  Death can provide some sustain in the form of lifesteal, but secutor dmg is so low that a low lifesteal percentage doesn't help much.  Justice provides even more tankiness (See mitigation below).  Nature is a weird choice and there's nothing there that's a good fit with the knight kit.
  • Mitigation:  Very strong mitigation options.  But mitigation doesn't win fights.  It just means it takes the opponent a little longer to kill you.  You can't outlast most classes.

Important note for all knight promotion classes:  Obliterate, which is a large chunk of our damage, doesn't take effect if the target has a lesser bleed on them (from a discipline like knife grinder or from another character hitting the target).   ACE really needs to have strong bleeds overwrite weaker bleeds.

 

Overall, I'm pretty depressed about the state of the knight in 6.300 compared to many other classes.  There have been improvements from 6.200 and earlier, but those improvements have not closed the gap to the other classes.  Knight is still getting thumped all the time.

 

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first of all, I am do not try to complain but:

- 1v1 is not an option, isnt it?

- in 6.1 we have pretty decent knights which was almost mandatory for siege and viable in a scale fights. both - dps and tanks specs works well.

- 6.2 and 6.3 is a big mistake and a joke with current statement

- dmg is poor for all melee non dps promos just coz almost no viable options to buff dmg.

- pdm buff from some skills (75% pdm for 5s) wins over the block now which mean you does not need to hold block but just press 1 button (some races, classes like a pitfighter can abuse it)

- CC changes makes block useless

- animation cancelling is gone

- poor aoe

- not possible to build decent lifesteal/selfsustain build which is a "mandatory" for small scale/solo/roaming

- some minority strange solutions (long CD for dashes, stamina cost)

- no decent options to make a build around main knight thing - block

 

overall knight right now semiworked class and have no good options compared to current meta mechanics:

- stealth

- speed

- burst dmg

- easy effective mitigation (pdm buff while you can do action)

- lifesteal

- AOE with no brain

- heal

- CC and antiCC

 

there are alot of options how devs can tune knight. but who cares. 6 month later they will rework everything again 😃

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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My feel personally about the secutor is the same as for the pre-promotion knight and tanks in the game.

Outside of the Frostguard and the Pitfighter (and only because it has so much damage, mitigation and self-sustain ; and should have been nerfed ages ago), there is no tank promotion that is interresting to bring in a group.

Tanks in Crowfall, with the exception of the Frostguard which has acces to a better version of ice armor over the two other spec, bring nothing to a group by themselves. Just more mitigation for themselves. For less damage, and less control... They are the last to die because no one has to focs them. The only reason to pick one might be for an interresting domain.

Stalwart as a disc should be deleted and given to the secutor. That would make it interresting as a promotion.

And overall i wished blocking was more the focus on each promotion. it's supposed to be knight's main gimmick.

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2 hours ago, Durenthal said:

For the past 5 years, knight has been ACE's whipping boy.

It lacks the sustain and damage to compete with the other melee classes.  Mitigation doesn't win fights.

Templar is an unwinnable fight for a knight.  Pitfighter is unbeatable.  Myrms have to be pretty awful for a knight to stand a chance.  The ranged classes mop us up pretty well, too.

Maybe I've just become a poor knight.  Knights, show me your videos of you beating these classes 1v1 in 6.2 or 6.3.  I want to see you beating a templar or a pitfighter, or a marginally competent myrm or brigand - teach me your ways.   Players of other classes who may think knight isn't gimped, post videos of knights kicking your butts 1v1 in 6.2 or 6.3.

No?

Then perhaps ACE needs to do a serious balance pass.   I'm sick and tired of knight being a chronically underpowered class.

State of the swordsman in 6.300

  • damage output is higher than it used to be.  If my target lets me unload, I can do pretty decent burst dmg.  Nothing close to a Titan, of course.  But better than swordsman used to have.
  • sustain has improved with the addition of resto strike to the valorous strike combo.  It's a pity that it's a 2 part combo with a split second combo portion with resto strike being on the E key, but it's an improvement.   Endurance also helps with sustain.   Sadly the combination of endurance and lifesteal is still way less than myrm or champion sustain (or even brigand or warden sustain).
  • Domains - War and Battle are decent.  Justice is entirely unsuited to swordsman (and to knight in general honestly).
  • Mitigation - mitigation is pretty weak on a swordsman (as you might expect from a supposed dps promotion).  Block is situationally useful, but using it costs us our attacks and a pile of our stamina.  Both of those are high costs - combined, they're a very high price to pay for increased mitigation.

 

State of the Sentinel in 6.300

  • Dmg output is mediocre.  CC is decent, but with retaliate so readily available, it doesn't feel strong.
  • Sustain is weak.  No valorous strike combo means no lifesteal, and having more stuns/KDs to trigger endurance more often isn't enough sustain on its own.
  • Domains:  Battle, Music, Justice.  Battle is ok.  Music has some niche options, Justice is weak.
  • Mitigation:  More mitigation than swordsman, but mitigation is weak compared to the sustain models of other classes.   In WoW Effective Health terms, mitigation is pretty low on the totem pole.

State of the Secutor in 6.300

  • Dmg is poor.  Secutor is the "tank" spec and tank specs are weak in PvP games to start with.  Mitigation tanks in particular are terrible (sustain tanks like pitfighter are so much stronger)
  • Sustain is weak.  You can dramatically reduce incoming dmg, but you only have endurance to reverse it in the base promotion, and it's not enough.
  • Domains: Death, Justice, and Nature.  Death can provide some sustain in the form of lifesteal, but secutor dmg is so low that a low lifesteal percentage doesn't help much.  Justice provides even more tankiness (See mitigation below).  Nature is a weird choice and there's nothing there that's a good fit with the knight kit.
  • Mitigation:  Very strong mitigation options.  But mitigation doesn't win fights.  It just means it takes the opponent a little longer to kill you.  You can't outlast most classes.

Important note for all knight promotion classes:  Obliterate, which is a large chunk of our damage, doesn't take effect if the target has a lesser bleed on them (from a discipline like knife grinder or from another character hitting the target).   ACE really needs to have strong bleeds overwrite weaker bleeds.

 

Overall, I'm pretty depressed about the state of the knight in 6.300 compared to many other classes.  There have been improvements from 6.200 and earlier, but those improvements have not closed the gap to the other classes.  Knight is still getting thumped all the time.

 

Secutor - Yep its weak in melee can be built to be strong vs casters ironically.   All 3 promotions bring something different to the kits and are worth while.  Nature & Death for the top spots in this promo.

Swordsman-  still dont see the use with these and agree with you here. Tried building one to see if I would like it just as much as my vindicators. Went right into the dumpster after a nights worth of pvp. Dps can be nice but everything else does it better. If these are built for kiting they're more of a nuisance than anything.

Sentinel- More useful than a swordsman still would take a secutor over this but sure there might be a useful build here. 

Domain - Justice  this should be swapped for war across all 3.

 

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34 minutes ago, MrErad said:

Domain - Justice  this should be swapped for war across all 3.

This.

 

Justice is ironically the most useless domain for all the Knight promotions. Battle should be the standard I think

Shadowbane style advantage / disadvantage disciplines when? ~Yianni 1/21/21

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I doubt Knight can get War or Battle, since Champion and Myrmidon already use War and Battle and each class has a unique domain for all 3 Promotions (Frostweaver is Frost, Cleric is Light, Duelist is Shadow, etc.). I think it'd be a better argument that Knight should get Death rather than War or Battle, but realistically, anything's better than Justice, even Nature

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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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