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Player Retention


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Crowfall has many problems, i know youre working on some of them ACE but you seem woefully ignorant of others. Player retention for crowfall is the worst ive seen in a game, there are some problems with the testing thats being done. I know you dislike treating the game as a game since its not released but the pop that has tried the game before its released is not coming back, you gotta stop the bleeding now before theres no more blood to put into it. Ever since i joined crowfall 2 years ago it has had the same core problems regardless of if its dregs or factions we're running in. Theres almost nothing to do and endgame guilds are meeting early game guilds and absolutely crushing them. The best example of this is @DilboDabbginsguild he formed at the start of beta. They had 150 players join in a week and they were all gone in a month. This has to stop soon, we need more things to do and endgame guilds cant be meeting early game guilds everyday in every campaign and completely crushing them before their invested in the game. Heres what i think needs to happen for crowfall to stop bleeding players.
 

  1. Fix performance
  2. Bring shadows back while keeping a small map (2-3 zones) dregs running at the same time
  3. Add more to do into the game like PvP ranks and world events and daily PvP quests

most of these things cant be put off much longer, you can stall on pvp ranks and pvp quests, but performance, shadows, and more pvp focused things to do need to come before the next large wave of beta invites if you want to keep more than 5% of them in the game.

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I approve this message, and I've been saying it for a while now. Your game is openly hostile to the majority of its player base in its current form. You need a working difficulty ramp. You need a

Crowfall has many problems, i know youre working on some of them ACE but you seem woefully ignorant of others. Player retention for crowfall is the worst ive seen in a game, there are some problems wi

Make dregs guild only. As it stands Earth, Moon, and Sun only exist as cannon fodder for bigger guilds. Before you say no, go scroll through the leaderboards on earth sun and moon and look at the amou

Make dregs guild only. As it stands Earth, Moon, and Sun only exist as cannon fodder for bigger guilds. Before you say no, go scroll through the leaderboards on earth sun and moon and look at the amount of players that have 1 death then no other stats i.e they joined died once then quit the game. If we don't give a reason for noobs to play the game dies. Adding shadow would be a good option if you want to keep testing dregs.

Edited by Communist_Puppy
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17 minutes ago, Staff said:

Crowfall has many problems, i know youre working on some of them ACE but you seem woefully ignorant of others. Player retention for crowfall is the worst ive seen in a game, there are some problems with the testing thats being done. I know you dislike treating the game as a game since its not released but the pop that has tried the game before its released is not coming back, you gotta stop the bleeding now before theres no more blood to put into it. Ever since i joined crowfall 2 years ago it has had the same core problems regardless of if its dregs or factions we're running in. Theres almost nothing to do and endgame guilds are meeting early game guilds and absolutely crushing them. The best example of this is @DilboDabbginsguild he formed at the start of beta. They had 150 players join in a week and they were all gone in a month. This has to stop soon, we need more things to do and endgame guilds cant be meeting early game guilds everyday in every campaign and completely crushing them before their invested in the game. Heres what i think needs to happen for crowfall to stop bleeding players.
 

  1. Fix performance
  2. Bring shadows back while keeping a small map (2-3 zones) dregs running at the same time
  3. Add more to do into the game like PvP ranks and world events and daily PvP quests

most of these things cant be put off much longer, you can stall on pvp ranks and pvp quests, but performance, shadows, and more pvp focused things to do need to come before the next large wave of beta invites if you want to keep more than 5% of them in the game.

Bolded above^

Every player I talk to that was a diehard who quit said this was the reason they quit. Specifically "Not enough content".

The second complaint I hear is lack of faith in development to execute pvp properly.

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Make it so guilds have their group spread out.

The response for someone capping outposts should be at best a full 5 man party and not the 10+ groups that seems to be the norm today.

Just had 3 new players join today and the only fair fight we had our opponents didnt even fight back and just ran to the portal. Hell, i didnt even join until they started dissapearing trying to let the newbies have their fun.

Honestly i was just expecting them to just give up on thegame. By the end of it we decided to just farm. Well honestly they wanted to duel on the eks but having to unlock characters was a bit much at that point.

Cf is incredibly number sensitive. Please try to mitigate "zerging" whenever you can. It is clear the community will destroy itself if the Devs dont restrict it.

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But we have to realize that without the right density and build-up of cities, there is practically no difference between infected, dregs, or shadow to a new player. They will live out of the temple, they will be ganked relentlessly by the same five people, they will quit. The game is the key before worrying about retention, tbh there is no game going on.

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1 hour ago, Staff said:

Crowfall has many problems, i know youre working on some of them ACE but you seem woefully ignorant of others.

I seriously doubt they are ignorant, they either cannot or will not do anything about it. We just dont know the reasons why yet. This team isnt a handful of coders doing this part time, its a medium sized company full of people from other games. If they really are ignorant of the problems, they would also be incompetent to the point they would never be able to launch this game.

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41 minutes ago, McTan said:

But we have to realize that without the right density and build-up of cities, there is practically no difference between infected, dregs, or shadow to a new player. They will live out of the temple, they will be ganked relentlessly by the same five people, they will quit. The game is the key before worrying about retention, tbh there is no game going on.

A major issue that they need to address is that a map made > a rng'ed map, their willingness to allow the community to be split instead of one large world with multiple zones which would be a little more persistency that could still go through their seasonal changes would be 100% better.  

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I don't like the idea of daily PvP quests - or any "daily's" at all. Even a ranking system seems out of place for what should just be an organic PvP experience overall - shouldn't have to incentivize PvP with ranking when defending resources, escorting caravans, etc., should be enough.

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To Staff's point, I just watched a new player who happened to be streaming, he ran through the NPE fine, got to LvL20, then decided to go into campaign cause well he could. Resulted in him zoning into first zone, promptly getting roadkilled by a Red Elk, going screw this game and killing stream.

Please for the sake of the game put a disclaimer of Dregs stating this a max lvl area and designed as a GvG battleground so we stop bleeding these players due to them jumping into Dregs far to early.

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Pull down all campaigns. Anger your hardcore testing player core of 100 players or so. Bring up tests when patches are ready to be thoroughly screamed through. Run them for a week, then go back to the grindstone.

During the downtime, engage your community with the challenges and problems the new build broke. Actually try to solve issues with players at least being engaged by developers (even if they don't respond to every post). 

You'd start to see a turn around in attitude in this game, even if things technically didn't get better. 24/7 server access is killing this games population because no one new has any context to whats going on. They just see sub-100 player pops and think this game is a joke. Actually manage this game in the final stretch like you want it to succeed. This is mis-management if I've ever seen it. Theirs no buzz, theirs no hype, theirs no "positive attitudes" about Crowfall anymore in the public eye. Go look at what people say about CF when news does show up on the major platforms (MMORPG/Massively/etc.). 

Reputations are contagious. One bad review is more impactful then 10 good reviews. Except these guys are getting nailed with 10 bad reviews for every 1 good one. They aren't engaging people on the various sub-reddits, twitter, or any social platform like they _used_ to do. When was the last AMA? I mean this is criminal negligence at this point.

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The game is just a huge mess right now.

No sfx in combat, things popping right in front of you due to poor draw distance and there is no visual effect for thorns and reflect so you just die and combat logs shows nothing.

Crafting is a huge grind in which you waste so many resources its unfun and gathering still provides you no real reward in the hours you put into it.

Feedback on test is consistently ignored, portal bug was reported by me, ppl hated the crafting grind but that still went through and so many more bugs that made it through.

Instead of building on what they already had a year or 2 back, they have butchered what was a good fun game.

 

 

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As much as it hurts me (and my wallet) to say this, I think the game is just inherently flawed. The devs were banking on the players being the content, but the things they have in the world are not interesting or fun, so people just don't do them. It's a vicious cycle that feeds into itself and we end up with people either bored, disinterested, or disillusioned. Part of the reason they removed passive training is to get people out in the world and progressing their trade, but I'm not sure that will pan out like they want. It's a sad thing, that the game in the trailer (on the front page) looks more interesting than the actual game itself.

I think my biggest issues with the game is that combat feels more watered down; most likely due to technical limitations. Gear is way too important, and this factors in to the game revolving around "who has more"; both stats power wise and man power. The generic nature of the world just caps off the generic and bland feeling of everything else in the game.

I think it's fixable, but by the time they do fix it I'm not sure anyone will really care. Mortal Online 2, Profane and even Corepunk look way more interesting.

Edited by Helix
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7 hours ago, McTan said:

But we have to realize that without the right density and build-up of cities, there is practically no difference between infected, dregs, or shadow to a new player. They will live out of the temple, they will be ganked relentlessly by the same five people, they will quit. The game is the key before worrying about retention, tbh there is no game going on.

McTan has this right. Finish the game and them invite folks to test it for bugs. What we have today is players testing  disconnected systems not a complete game.

Some folks enjoy testing, most folks would rather not. Some of them will come back to see if the game is good, many will not look back as their first impression of CF was so disappointing.

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47 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

What we have today is players testing  disconnected systems not a complete game.

Do they have any plans to make it a more complete game?

I see lots of great suggestions but zero feedback from the devs that they plan to redo anything or create anything else that hasn't already been.

Players said there wasn't enough to do outside of siege, so chests. Players complained about passive training so they deleted it and replaced it with even more grinding and RNG of the same systems. Not enough character depth or choices? Watered down disciplines to inflate the numbers and made even less choices in talents.

Overall I believe they've delivered the core game they envisioned but it isn't something people want to play, at least not long term or in the way ACE had hoped.

Wearing rose tinted glasses riding the hype train only goes so far into nostalgia land.

I want the game to succeed but I don't know how it will at this point. Can't make the devs feel great to see all the critical feedback, but glad to see more providing it instead of the same happy handful that likely don't represent gamers as a whole and the population needed for a game to last.

 


 

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18 minutes ago, APE said:

Do they have any plans to make it a more complete game?

I see lots of great suggestions but zero feedback from the devs that they plan to redo anything or create anything else that hasn't already been.

Players said there wasn't enough to do outside of siege, so chests. Players complained about passive training so they deleted it and replaced it with even more grinding and RNG of the same systems. Not enough character depth or choices? Watered down disciplines to inflate the numbers and made even less choices in talents.

Overall I believe they've delivered the core game they envisioned but it isn't something people want to play, at least not long term or in the way ACE had hoped.

Wearing rose tinted glasses riding the hype train only goes so far into nostalgia land.

I want the game to succeed but I don't know how it will at this point. Can't make the devs feel great to see all the critical feedback, but glad to see more providing it instead of the same happy handful that likely don't represent gamers as a whole and the population needed for a game to last.

IMO, players need reasons for gatherers to WANT to gather, crafters to WANT to craft, and PvPers to WANT to PvP.  ACE seems to be focusing on our NEED to do those things rather than our desires.  Most of us have stopped logging in unless the game can be made more fun to play.

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Sadly, the game has good concepts but they are not integrated well enough to get a fun experience for most. While some of the erosion is linked to big guilds leaving after a while, most of it is linked to small guilds not showing up anymore since there is no place for them in this game. 

Maps need to become more interesting with zone specialization (what's the point of traveling to other zones if you can find everything needed in each zones), revamped siege events with content for large and small guilds, outside siege stuff to do (personally, I would simply remove timer and rework the siege rules). Look at other rvr games for inspiration but now cf is not feeling like a realm vs realm game.

There are many other elements to fix before the game is released (performance is a major one too) and frankly I hope ace finds a solution to get these good concepts work within a fun to play game. I will sure give this game another try when ace finds a solution for these elements.

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