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Can we please nerf Pitfighters?


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41 minutes ago, Sloppy said:

Let's worry about more important things.  Pretty much everyone in this thread has killed me on my pit fighter!

Make territory control fun, and then balance the economy and lastly pvp! :)

No, fix it. We arent talking about a complete rework or anything fancy.

Love how pits just go it isnt that bad. How yall find it fun. lol no poorly made dergs.

Mad respect for SirEmery for admitting it is broken.

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As a guy who's been playing the op Pitfighters for a few weeks, I'm concerned that the class is overpowered. I can literally just sit still and use my healing ult/ultimate warrior and watch basically

Do we realy want to balance the game based on 1 vs 1 performance on classes? YES. Pitfighter is very good as a solo class.  Pitfighter in bigger fights is just a wasted slot! CAN WE PLEASE

Just linking some earlier threads where I complain about these issues: Balance in general with pitfighter as an example, and stealth vs anti-stealth gameplay. IMO, these problems have only gotten

On 12/24/2020 at 2:14 PM, BehindYou said:

The ability to survive I think is fine, its the amount of damage they are also able to inflict that makes them over powered. 

This. To my mind both champ and myrm are both expressions of the "one versus many" archetype. From that archetype I expects builds that have limited support capacity but in their niche when diving in to an enemy stack.

I'd like to see them expressed mechanically as Myrms scaling damage bigger the more enemies are nearby, and champs scaling defenses bigger with more enemies nearby in all promos, being better or worse at tank/damage/cc depending on promotion or build choices, but largely "selfish" builds that don't have much to offer by way of supporting allies directly as we have templars and knights designed for those kinds of melee roles.

Ideally this would result in both being strong solos, but not apex solos. Your duelists or assassins should be a bad matchup for these guys due to their class trickery and strong single target potential, but both should be strong solo melee but a weakness against solo range.

What makes them special, ideally should be the scaling, put that on the required talent node right before the subclass split. Myrms should be able to keep the same damage pressure 1vx as they do 1v1 but be fall off in survivability, where champs should be able to scale their tank 1vx but have overall weak damage unless they can draw out a fight with scaling self sustain,

Myrms arguably fulfill the 1vx damage setup in their current form, but champs generally have a ton of sustain with what feels like not enough drawbacks in terms of damage or support to compensate for that sustain. I'd prefer to see their self sustain taken down at a base level and given back as a function of this scaling, and rework their domain choices to severely limit their initiate dps and direct group utility.

Myrms should be bursty aoe damage kings with limited uptime before they have to jump out and recover, but champs should really be the opposite. They should be all about single target confirms via executes, soft CC, and damage scaling that starts ignorable but can quickly ramp out of control if you don't force them to stop hitting stuff with some cc to reset their stacks, or neut their mini-ults, or zone them out. Not so big on damage or AOE, but great at applying consistent single target pressure and soft cc with apex tank that makes choosing them as an initial primary a bad call while also keeping them a threat if left alone so they have to be managed with CC.

When I look at champions I feel like I should see the anti-assassin. The single target specialist that can only realize its true potential in the middle of a crowded battlefield where the stealthers fear to tread, but vulnerable without all that distraction and chaos.

 

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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23 hours ago, CrusaderW said:

Do we realy want to balance the game based on 1 vs 1 performance on classes?
YES. Pitfighter is very good as a solo class. 

Pitfighter in bigger fights is just a wasted slot!

CAN WE PLEASE NOT BALANCE CLASSES BASED ON THEIR 1 VS 1 PERFORMANCE???

This is not a MOBA after all AFAIK.

If you can't open your eyes to see that pits are everywhere because they lack nothing, you must not be playing outside your siege window.

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Logged in all excited to get some skulls. First 2 guys were pits. There goes my good mood.

I cant remember the last time I faced a Knight, a Druid, a Myrm even. It is all Pit roaming, with some Stealth classes and some rare Templar at times.

Hell, I'd take being kited by a ranged instead of facing a pit.

So there you have it. I decided to just go lvl my new vessel and farm gold. Dont complain when the Dregs are empty.

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I personally find the most annoying things about champs in general is their mobility. Combined with Mino race they can be well beyond a pain in the ass to catch or avoid combining leaps and charges.

I feel like Myrms, and I hate to generalise all 3 promotion classes since they are a fair bit different, are rewarded for being highly aggressive which I like because it feels like thats what they are designed to do.

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Caution: Sarcasm (for those who won't get it without spelling it out)

So we all agree:

Nothing to fix on PitFighters.

Unless you want to nerf it to a point, where we can't even recommend it to noobs anymore...

Edited by CrusaderW
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As far as I can tell the survivability is not just the pit fighter. its most of the champion advanced classes. I run a Barbarian and still have almost as much survivability as a pit and a bit more damage output. 

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Nerf the sustain and increase the dps. All champs should be some form of a dps melee with some differences between them. They should not be the tankiest and the fastest in the game. The leap and hurbat were ment to be on a dps class to catch enemies and to get out of melee when you need to. Mixing a very hard to kill toon with speed and snares just makes it completely unbalanced. And that is just his basic kit.

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3 hours ago, Ginko said:

Nerf the sustain and increase the dps. All champs should be some form of a dps melee with some differences between them. They should not be the tankiest and the fastest in the game. The leap and hurbat were ment to be on a dps class to catch enemies and to get out of melee when you need to. Mixing a very hard to kill toon with speed and snares just makes it completely unbalanced. And that is just his basic kit.

All they need to do is make it scale with targets hit the healing.  So they can keep the tankiness when going outnumbered if they hit multi targets and scale it back for single and duo hits.  So if its healing for lets say 2500 make each person count as 500 hp hit if that even possible.   Or reduce healing like you said and up the damage and be done with it. I think the first solution would be better.  That way they retain some of their tank no matter the size .

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How about instead of nerfing they make every other class/promo as good?

Champ is an overall well designed class from base, promos, talents, domains, discs, etc. While others aren't too far off, there are several that still fall short in comparison.

I'd rather pick from a pool of strong options then a pool of mediocre ones.

It's easier to target those performing well (as intended), but devs hopefully take a better look at everything in the upcoming balance pass. Unless the balance pass is similar to the performance passes and combat passes...

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16 hours ago, APE said:

How about instead of nerfing they make every other class/promo as good?

Before launch it would always be better to nerf outliers. After launch things get tricky since a heavy handed but justified nerf can upset too many players attached to their style of play or avatar of preference. In the latter case, power creep could be more desirable then negativity from players effected.

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To make other classes buffed like that you would need to give all tanks 300AP in their promotion, so probably 500 AP for DPS promotion. Give all tanks access to 4 2k heals plus destroyer major, for dps probably 3 self heals. All tanks the ability to spam chains at 1-1.5K dmg every 6 seconds, plus another range at 1k.

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A good start would be to remove the 150 attack power from the malice talent. I don't think any other "Melee Defense" promotions get that much AP on their promotion stat bundle. Maybe give them some slashing damage bonus/cap so you can use an axe with a pit if you want. 

Not that it's a big deal, but I don't understand why the neckbreaker needs to root. Alpha does more dmg, barbarian CC's, so the pit one should only heal.

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Edited by blazzen

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