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Playing over 4 years and stuck - Do I still want to Play?


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18 minutes ago, Charas said:

Before I stopped testing (I will not call it "playing" since I do not acknowledge the presence of a game loop) I "fought over PvE activities" but I really wasn't and I don't think many others are either - what we are doing is looking for PvP and the best way to do that is to pretend to be engaged (lol at calling PvE here engaging) in PvE when in fact all you are really doing is blowing off time waiting and hoping that someone will try to gank you. I stopped running around for discs at night because I found it works better to just stay punching rocks at night and hope someone roaming for discs finds me and tries to gank me.

Same is true of the outposts, I went around taking outposts, but only in the hope that someone would come and fight me, and chasing after others doing the same. I looted one outpost chest once and was like "oh these have loot chests now? Ya I vaguely remember something about that in the patch notes." and then totally forgot they even had chests and never looted another; I don't care. That's not why I took outposts to begin with.

What I am saying is that this is not a game where PvE drives or leads to PvP, this is a game where a desire for PvP drives the appearance of PvE (it can't be said to be actual PvE when I have no interest in the trees or rocks or whatever).

Where do you get your gear?

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Removal of the skill tree (Which I new they would at least "Change") becasue it "sucked" so bad - but it made it a more "grindy" game that I am looking for now and was back n the time when I started.

I empathize.  I've been playing since the greybox days of hunger dome, and my interest is currently at a low ebb.   The lack of tester retention suggests that they won't be able to get the VIP subscri

Have you tried Albion Online? Easy to get into without the majority of the issues "sandbox" MMOs suffer from. I'm waiting for Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained 😭, Corepunk, Profane, Fractured,

On 12/24/2020 at 10:57 PM, Mayhem_ said:
  • Removal of the skill tree (Which I new they would at least "Change") becasue it "sucked" so bad - but it made it a more "grindy" game that I am looking for now and was back n the time when I started.
    • I work at least 50 hours a week
    • I have been pretty much the positive guy though most of the changes - but I think I have finally fallen into the camp where I think this game might end up going from "Niche to just bad"
    • VIP - lol.....really - let's not go there.
    • It also took away account uniqueness - it removed alot of limitations and choice
      • Should be adding - bring back weapon mastery disciplines and strengths and weakness.
    •  I heavily invested during Kickstarter and 2015 and paid a lot of $$ for some pretty lame housing.
      • I was hoping that we could at least put up our assests to go against others (Call them Private campaigns) who willing to do the same
      • Tracking was supposed to part of this game and I have not heard anything now in years........ and This type of Play was the "Main" reason I signed up for it...... that and minimal grind.

 RISK,REWARD, Hard Choices, little grind, Full sandbox economy, vast chr devolopment through hard choices etc (Shadowbane was better from what I remember)......... all seems to be disapearing from what I signed up for.

Of course, not all bad, I am betting a lot of the change will bring in more players than it loses (hopefully)

I was hoping for more branches of the passive trees:  Tracking, stealth, mount taming, seige specialist etc etc................ I was hoping to see all these come in ....... of course you would have to invest in them a lot to offset "Power" or something......... but that was what I wanted - "Tough Choices" - I don't feel it all anymore and not feeling anything here has a reason to keep me playing.  I keep looking and the only reason I am even remotely still here is because my Son still likes it and there really is not much anything better out there better for a MMO RPG PVP Sandbox Game.  

My Son jumps on the community "Hype of the week" stuff all the time; wich I continously have to re-level set expectations. Actually already too long and would need a speperate thread easily here.

Sorry,

This was not very well thought out, so probably set myself up for a lot of trolling (Lucklly I don't care) I just figured I should post this as I did not see anything like it easily viewable but know through the years a lof of us were discusssing a lot of the above.

I have not given up 100% but I am looking for something else that has to better than this.

Mayhem

 

 

7 days to Die is a fun single player co-op, multiplayer on Steam; blow up some zombies and after 4 years it is actually great to take a break. 

I lost count how many breaks this kitten has since the Grey scale days, because it is really slow "developing time" with an MMO.  

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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TBH I regret my funding of this game. Progress is way slower than expected. I was first year computer science student when i funded this game and now im about to finish my masters.

I understand that building an MMO is not an easy task, but i doubt they will be able to pull it off at all. Some parts of building such an MMO require very talented engineers, do they even have a team that can pull this off? Had i had the knowledge I have now 6 years ago, I would not have funded this project.

And trying to build a project like this on Unity? That was wrong call. Unity and Unreal were more head-to-head back then so i can see why they choose Unity but right now? Unreal has really pulled ahead by a large margin and is much more scalable to bigger projects.

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1 hour ago, Eren said:

TBH I regret my funding of this game. Progress is way slower than expected. I was first year computer science student when i funded this game and now im about to finish my masters.

I understand that building an MMO is not an easy task, but i doubt they will be able to pull it off at all. Some parts of building such an MMO require very talented engineers, do they even have a team that can pull this off? Had i had the knowledge I have now 6 years ago, I would not have funded this project.

And trying to build a project like this on Unity? That was wrong call. Unity and Unreal were more head-to-head back then so i can see why they choose Unity but right now? Unreal has really pulled ahead by a large margin and is much more scalable to bigger projects.

Albion Online runs fine on Unity, AS LONG AS YOU ONLY USE UNITY for graphics. But, you do have to know how to design for the UNITY system.

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1 hour ago, mystafyi said:

Not sure about this claim. I would refer you to the horses mouth on this subject.

Unite Europe 2016 - Building a PvP focused MMO - YouTube

 

From that talk: "Takeaway: - learn about the architecture of a modern MMO game, including aspects like scalability - learn how to use Unity in a big game project without making the core game logic depend on Unity"

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From a couple years later:

 KEEPING CONTROL OF THE TECHNOLOGY • good: used only minimal feature set of engine, network middleware • kept Unity completely out of server! (way too slow, way to unreliable!) • fully functional "command line" client that works without Unity (also allows bots, easy load tests etc.) • wrote key components ourselves: • level loading, collision, pathfinding, AI, complete server structure etc. • using Unity for Graphics, Animation, Visual Effects, UI, Input handling • good compromise between using an engine and roll-our-own!

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21 hours ago, Jah said:

Where do you get your gear?

I made it myself before 6.3. I was making green tools and was on the verge of making green armor and next would be weapons then 6.3 dropped and the only way to get back to where I was is to farm insanely huge amounts of gold which I will not do (I put two months into testing already so I no longer fell any obligation to do that).

 

If I had gotten to green gear I would have made my second foray into a campaign (first time I couldn't really even harvest anything so I went back to Infected and started building up to where I could make greens and let my passives build up).

 

I am not here to playtest anybody's guild, nor am I here to playtest Discord or anything else so don't bother telling me to use stuff outside the game to create a functional game loop.

 

If my beta access is still around when they do a balance pass I may decide to help with that but otherwise no more for me without a functional game loop (which as I see it only needs a functional economy for there to be a game loop then I could do the grind(s) I want and sell the mats for gold to progress).

 

I am a RP PvPer. I would want to bring that Crazy Cow Carnage (Minotaur w/ Corrupted Soul) and give everybody Mad Cow Disease (Shrivel).

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I think that crowd-funded games (MMOs in particular) need to stop allowing access to the game while it is still being developed.  I think ultimately that results in more problems than it's worth and more disillusioned players that end up never playing.

Get funded then get a core team of testers then stay quiet and don't let people test until the game is in good shape.

Unless you run out of money first, that is -- the problems crowd-funded MMOs have been having over the years kind of shows that MMOs do not lend themselves to the crowd funding model.

Edited by Hasil
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18 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

This is a very common problem with games. Reality is most fail before launch.

Yeah.  Didn't used to be the way, so much.  Personally, I'll take a big studio, AAA game any day, because even if it doesn't have legs and last at least you get something worth playing for a while, usually.  Yes, I know there are exceptions -- I am just guessing that if you ran the numbers, games by bigger studios tend to deliver something playable much more frequently than small studios or crowd-funded games.

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Every time I see people talk about the PVE grind I wonder how much they don't actually remember Shadowbane. 99% of the time was spent grinding camps for gold. 

If you didn't have to do that, thank the people in your guild who did it for you. Because SOMEONE was ALWAYS grinding camps. 24/7. Without it, no items were being made at shops.

Currently, I'm having fun with the game. I'm actually spending more time currently than I did in earlier test stages. I think there are issues, and the passive skill tree going away bugs me (second account pointless now). But people keep thinking this game is aiming for 500k subs and population. It's not. 100k keeps this game alive easily, and the devs know this. This game was never meant to appeal to any sort of mass audience. 

Also I think most testers have an issue because they can't grasp what a tester is. I have a friend who isn't a tester. When we talk about this game he is like, man the game will be so old when it finally comes out why should I play it. I'm like you're an idiot. Every game you've ever played on the planet took longer than this and the only difference is you know about this one sooner.

The game looks and plays 100x better than it did back in the 5.xxx days. 4k, 45 to 60 fps almost always on max settings.

As a whole when gamers stop trying to turn games that aren't for them into games that are, they end up being happier, but everyone seems to think every game should be made how they want or in a way that makes them happy.

Ehh, my 2 cents. 

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7 hours ago, Hasil said:

I think that crowd-funded games (MMOs in particular) need to stop allowing access to the game while it is still being developed.  I think ultimately that results in more problems than it's worth and more disillusioned players that end up never playing.

Get funded then get a core team of testers then stay quiet and don't let people test until the game is in good shape.

Unless you run out of money first, that is -- the problems crowd-funded MMOs have been having over the years kind of shows that MMOs do not lend themselves to the crowd funding model.

Unfortunately crowdfunding has to do a lot of song n dance to get our money. Promising we'll all be part of the process seems pretty much a must.

Going back to the KS video and early promises, a lot of it simply doesn't exist and likely never will or at least not in the form most probably expected. Looking at what was shown off in the promotion videos and what the first playable version was like, clearly there was a lot of hype/marketing running the train and not actual pre-developed functioning product.

It's great to have large goals, but they need some foundation in reality. Nothing wrong with saying XYZ will be post-launch instead of "we'll try to do it all if we can" and then we watch the juggler drop his pins. 

I would rather have a simple design with plausible features that provides a high quality experience. Once that is built, functioning, and being played, take it and customer money to the next level. Except maybe Ashes, the other MMOs I've backed seem to be chasing their own hype endlessly. I will have to see Ashes first hand to know if it isn't the same.

 


 

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4 hours ago, Retsopmi said:

Every time I see people talk about the PVE grind I wonder how much they don't actually remember Shadowbane. 99% of the time was spent grinding camps for gold.

I played DAoC at the time and most of my time was doing PVP. Barely played SB so didn't realize it was so PVE heavy and makes sense why SB vets that remain don't seem to have issue with how much PVE is in this game.

4 hours ago, Retsopmi said:

But people keep thinking this game is aiming for 500k subs and population. It's not. 100k keeps this game alive easily, and the devs know this. This game was never meant to appeal to any sort of mass audience.

I don't believe many believe it will ever have mass appeal. However the niche appeal seems to be shrinking as time goes on. Can't just pull 100k out of the air.

4 hours ago, Retsopmi said:

Every game you've ever played on the planet took longer than this and the only difference is you know about this one sooner.

Not sure what games your friend has played, but several popular MMOs took less time with vary resources available. 5 years used to be thrown about as the standard likely because WoW took around that time but others have taken a bit more or less.

4 hours ago, Retsopmi said:

As a whole when gamers stop trying to turn games that aren't for them into games that are, they end up being happier, but everyone seems to think every game should be made how they want or in a way that makes them happy.

I agree but I personally wanted the game they pitched and I gave money for during Kickstarter. I'm still here despite it not turning out out exactly how I wanted, but I'm not sure who the game is for anymore. Devs ask for our feedback so I assume they care about what we want collectively. Not sure who wants games to not be made for them.

 


 

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On 12/31/2020 at 8:53 PM, SAM_BUKA said:

What are you talking about here, my friend? I've never seen you in the game. Ever. It looks like you already are not playing. Maybe you should give it a try first (for couple weeks or a month) and not only in GR and Infected but in Dregs, as well. Then come back and leave your feedback, please.

Delete - 

I did bite and respond then reasilized responding to someone that has less game time than my Son did at 12 was probably not worth it :)

Edited by Mayhem_
No need for another book already written
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On 1/2/2021 at 8:31 PM, Eren said:

TBH I regret my funding of this game. Progress is way slower than expected. I was first year computer science student when i funded this game and now im about to finish my masters.

I understand that building an MMO is not an easy task, but i doubt they will be able to pull it off at all. Some parts of building such an MMO require very talented engineers, do they even have a team that can pull this off? Had i had the knowledge I have now 6 years ago, I would not have funded this project.

And trying to build a project like this on Unity? That was wrong call. Unity and Unreal were more head-to-head back then so i can see why they choose Unity but right now? Unreal has really pulled ahead by a large margin and is much more scalable to bigger projects.

Me too!! I started funding this i think late 2017 to early 2018 at some point. Hubby and I both funded, we paid $70AUD each for this game, which is almost the price of a AAA game... For us to now be HERE and its STILL not done, makes me angry. It makes me angry that this game still isn't out, still has issues. This isn't what WE paid for. I just wish we could get a refund at this point. 

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On 1/7/2021 at 9:00 AM, APE said:

I played DAoC at the time and most of my time was doing PVP. Barely played SB so didn't realize it was so PVE heavy and makes sense why SB vets that remain don't seem to have issue with how much PVE is in this game.

I don't believe many believe it will ever have mass appeal. However the niche appeal seems to be shrinking as time goes on. Can't just pull 100k out of the air.

Not sure what games your friend has played, but several popular MMOs took less time with vary resources available. 5 years used to be thrown about as the standard likely because WoW took around that time but others have taken a bit more or less.

I agree but I personally wanted the game they pitched and I gave money for during Kickstarter. I'm still here despite it not turning out out exactly how I wanted, but I'm not sure who the game is for anymore. Devs ask for our feedback so I assume they care about what we want collectively. Not sure who wants games to not be made for them.

I too want that game they pitched and we funded based on the pitch. My guild won't spend much time testing and likely won't be here post launch unless ACE begins to refocus on THAT game they pitched.

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7 hours ago, Mayhem_ said:

Delete - 

I did bite and respond then reasilized responding to someone that has less game time than my Son did at 12 was probably not worth it :)

Semper Fi bro.

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22 hours ago, MacDeath said:

Semper Fi bro.

Semper Fi - Been watching the news from down here in Costs Rica (10 year Xpat) - Dammmm Keep it Kool Brother!

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